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[OTT/CBJ] Pascal Leclaire + 2nd round pick for Antoine Vermette

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Old
03-13-2009, 03:39 PM
  #376
cootedawg
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Starting goalies haven't garnered much of a return in the past couple years. Bryzgalov...waived. Huet traded for a 2nd. Biron traded for a 2nd. I would say Leclaire is on a level with these guys and when you factor in injuries, he didn't have that much value.

I do agree with you though, that Leclaire has the potential to be very valuable to Ottawa over the next few years, assuming he is healthy.

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Old
03-13-2009, 04:08 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by cootedawg View Post
Starting goalies haven't garnered much of a return in the past couple years. Bryzgalov...waived. Huet traded for a 2nd. Biron traded for a 2nd. I would say Leclaire is on a level with these guys and when you factor in injuries, he didn't have that much value.

I do agree with you though, that Leclaire has the potential to be very valuable to Ottawa over the next few years, assuming he is healthy.
i wouldnt put Leclaire at the same level as Biron and Bryz as they were NVR number 1 goalies until after they got traded

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Old
03-13-2009, 04:26 PM
  #378
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You guys get an average 2nd liner for the rest of this season and next season.
...and potentially seasons afterward. I'm not sure if anybody noticed, but in the last few days Vermette hasn't exactly been moping like he did on deadline day, so I'm hopeful he can be convinced to stay here.

Also, we get a decent hunk of cap space back that will be used to resign quite a few folks. Which we need - '10-11 and '11-12 has most of our core coming up for new contracts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by source View Post
We get a #1 goalie for 2 more years.
Assuming he's able to stay healthy, which I hope he does.

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Originally Posted by source View Post
We also get a 2nd round pick.

While Leclaire may be of no benefit to you guys, he will be much more valuable to us than Vermette will be to you (in the long-run). Since Columbus was desperate to fill a need for the playoffs, Murray was able to significantly upgrade the team and get a top 50 pick.
Calling it a "need for the playoffs" is a bit of a misconception - much like how Ottawa has never really had anything resembling a #1 goaltender, we've never had anything resembling two top-6 centers before in our franchise history. Next year, with Brassard and Vermette, we will. Since we've already got a lot of good wingers and a capable shutdown D, that counts for a heck of a lot.

I think Columbus picked up a significant upgrade, and Ottawa got a very good chance at a significant upgrade and some insurance in case it doesn't work out.

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If Columbus had chosen to wait (and I'm not at all saying you should have), you'd be looking at much higher value for Leclaire in the offseason.

I can't stress enough how no team 'lost' this deal (time will tell anyways), but the Jackets were dealing from a position of weakness and could have got a lot more for Leclaire had they waited.
We'd have had to wait 'till partway through next season, I think (enough for Leclaire to get a few healthy starts), and even then it may not have helped much given his history.

Value-wise, yeah, we might have gotten more if the stars aligned a little better, but I think most Jackets fans are just happy to 1) have another decent center for the first time, like, ever, and 2) see Pazzy in a place where he's got a good chance of succeeding.

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Old
03-14-2009, 10:12 AM
  #379
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The early returns on Vermette have been staggering. 4-0 record and 6 pts (3 g, 3 a) in 4 games. I know this won't keep up but the start has been unbelievable. Columbus looks to be in good shape to make the playoffs and have a center that can contribute for several years to come. Great trade. I hope Pazzy does well for you and maybe Ottawa will be one of the lucky ones to have a 2nd round pick contribute. It will be a good trade for both teams.

Great for Columbus early on.

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Old
03-14-2009, 11:52 AM
  #380
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[QUOTE=Viqsi;18514080Also, we get a decent hunk of cap space back that will be used to resign quite a few folks. Which we need - '10-11 and '11-12 has most of our core coming up for new contracts.[/QUOTE]

Don't you only save a million or so next season? Or is it in two seasons when you need more cap room to re-sign key players?

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Old
03-14-2009, 01:02 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Scrambllllle View Post
Don't you only save a million or so next season? Or is it in two seasons when you need more cap room to re-sign key players?
The latter, really. We needed a guy like Vermette anyways, so he'll probably be one of the guys who'll need resigning. But this way we'll have someone who's played on the team rather than X random free agent.

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Old
03-17-2009, 08:31 AM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by source View Post
We get a #1 goalie for 2 more years.


If Columbus had chosen to wait (and I'm not at all saying you should have), you'd be looking at much higher value for Leclaire in the offseason.

I can't stress enough how no team 'lost' this deal (time will tell anyways), but the Jackets were dealing from a position of weakness and could have got a lot more for Leclaire had they waited.

Howson was asked this very same question by the local press. His response, "When would be the right time to trade Leclaire? Should they wait until he is healthy but backing up Mason next December and has started 4 or 5 games? Would that make him look like a #1 again? Should they wait until maybe he gets injured again?"

The truth is, while Leclaire is a #1 goalie when healthy, his value might have never gone higher in Columbus, because he was going to be a very expensive backup.

I believe he will play well enough that Sens fans will be happy with this trade. I think Columbus fans will also be happy with this trade.

One trade- two winners. What a novel concept!

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:50 AM
  #383
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One trade- two winners. What a novel concept!
From watching the CBJ games since the trade, I would say this was a great trade for both teams

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Old
03-17-2009, 10:09 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Howson was asked this very same question by the local press. His response, "When would be the right time to trade Leclaire? Should they wait until he is healthy but backing up Mason next December and has started 4 or 5 games? Would that make him look like a #1 again? Should they wait until maybe he gets injured again?"

The truth is, while Leclaire is a #1 goalie when healthy, his value might have never gone higher in Columbus, because he was going to be a very expensive backup.

I believe he will play well enough that Sens fans will be happy with this trade. I think Columbus fans will also be happy with this trade.

One trade- two winners. What a novel concept!
I did not know it was possible to trade a guy that was on the injury list...

How come Ottawa was unable to trade Neil, then ?

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Old
03-17-2009, 10:29 AM
  #385
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I did not know it was possible to trade a guy that was on the injury list...

How come Ottawa was unable to trade Neil, then ?
Nobody wanted him at the price Murray set.

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Old
03-17-2009, 10:34 AM
  #386
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I still have fingers crossed for both teams. I love Vermette, he's a real character guy, but be careful, he's unbelievably streaky. One of the streakiest players I've ever seen actually.

Hopefully he's found his niche in Columbus and can consistently put up numbers for them.

As for Leclaire, he and Elliott are gonna make a nice tandem. If he falls to injury, Elliott's showing he's more than capable as a rookie this year.

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Old
03-17-2009, 11:28 AM
  #387
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I still have fingers crossed for both teams. I love Vermette, he's a real character guy, but be careful, he's unbelievably streaky. One of the streakiest players I've ever seen actually.
Hopefully he's found his niche in Columbus and can consistently put up numbers for them.

As for Leclaire, he and Elliott are gonna make a nice tandem. If he falls to injury, Elliott's showing he's more than capable as a rookie this year.
Only in scoring. Everything else he brings to the table will still be there ever night.

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Old
03-17-2009, 12:43 PM
  #388
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Only in scoring. Everything else he brings to the table will still be there ever night.
You're right. He is very good at face-offs and reliable defensively. he is a great skater. Good pick up by Columbus.

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Old
03-18-2009, 08:35 PM
  #389
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Thanks again for Vermette. If we are considered the losers of this trade I just don't want to be the winner!

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Old
03-18-2009, 08:41 PM
  #390
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7 points in 6 games (4g 3a) and 5-1-0 with wins over DET, BOS, CHI(2), and PIT

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Old
03-19-2009, 11:19 AM
  #391
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I'm really glad Vermette's doing well over there. He's a good guy who deserves to play on a good line. Good luck to CLB in the playoffs!

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Old
03-19-2009, 11:31 AM
  #392
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I'm very happy to see Vermette is doing well with Columbus. He's a good guy and I wish him the best.

At the same time, I'm excited to see how Leclaire will do with the Sens next season.

All in all, it was a good trade for both teams.

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Old
03-19-2009, 11:45 AM
  #393
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None of Bryzgalov, Huet, or Biron ever had a season nearly as good as Leclaire's last year. None of them had ever been a true starter when traded: all were backups who became average at best starters because the teams didn't have anyone better. None were ever as highly regarded as Leclaire. Huet lost his job first to Price, then to Khabibulin. Biron lost his job to Ninnymaki, then got it back. Leclaire lost his due to injury, then surgery.

If you pooh-pooh Leclaire's stats last year, then the same would apply to Steve Mason this year: his stats are almost identical to Leclaire last year: 2.25, .919, 9 shutouts.

If Leclaire was traded in September, he would have returned about what Vokoun returned from Florida.

Putting Leclaire at the Vokoun level is fair; the reason he went for less is the injury concerns, and that Vermette (and others) values are always inflated at the trade deadline.

I agree that Leclaire is a risk because of the injury(s), but as far as ability goes, he is clearly in the Vokoun level; not the Bryzgalov, Huet, Biron (mediocre starters) level.


As for Vermette, as the Sens have gone 6-1 since trading him, he was clearly the problem (along with Hartsburg), and the team only needed to dump him in order to find their form. (I should point out that this is a joke before some "sensitive" posters jump all over me. I am a Vermette fan, and would love the Sens to resign him in 15 months, but doubt we will have cap room. My only concern with Vermette is his streaky scoring which has contributed to his putrid playoff numbers; but he is valuable even when not scoring: great defense).

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Old
03-20-2009, 05:58 PM
  #394
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What's helping Vermette out right now, is that he fits into Hitchcock's system. I should know considering I live in Columbus.

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Old
03-21-2009, 08:22 AM
  #395
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I think most Sens fans who have been watching Vermette for years knew he would perform well somewhere other than Ottawa - and knew he would be traded at some point.

Pretty sure that most Sens fans are happy to see it too - he's just a likeable player.

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Old
03-21-2009, 08:29 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by TheCrosbyShow91 View Post
What's helping Vermette out right now, is that he fits into Hitchcock's system. I should know considering I live in Columbus.
Vermette was close to a point per game since about mid-late January with Ottawa, offensively he had a terriable start to the year, but he really picked it up in the second half.

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Old
03-21-2009, 08:40 AM
  #397
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Pretty sure that most Sens fans are happy to see it too - he's just a likeable player.
I am. Good to hear he's working out in Columbus.

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