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NYI - PIT proposal

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Old
03-17-2009, 12:05 PM
  #26
Sanderson
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Read the edit.

Apart from that, it's not my youth, I'm not an Islanders fan.

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Old
03-17-2009, 12:16 PM
  #27
Hockeygod66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
Read the edit.

Apart from that, it's not my youth, I'm not an Islanders fan.
so you think surrending 8.7 a year cap hit is too much for a likely candidate thats going to compete for the art ross year the next 8 to 10 years. their paying bill guerin and mike comrie at the same cap hit.

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Old
03-17-2009, 12:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Hockeygod66 View Post
so you think surrending 8.7 a year cap hit is too much for a likely candidate thats going to compete for the art ross year the next 8 to 10 years. their paying bill guerin and mike comrie at the same cap hit.
Huh?
I didn't say anything like that, at all.

I said that it doesn't make sense to throw all the youth, players and picks it would take to get Pittsburgh to give up Malkin, because the team wouldn't be anywhere near a contender, and without any assets to become one.

When Crosby and Ovechkin came into the league, they were instant stars, yet their teams failed, finishing 14th and 15th in the Eastern Conference. That's the situation the Islanders would be in. They would have one big star and not much behind him. Plus, they wouldn't have the youth those two teams already had on the roster, because all of that went to Pittsburgh in the trade.

There are teams which contend or are about to contend, and there are those which are far away from contending. The latter ones aren't in a position to trade for superstars. It wouldn't improve them, because one star alone doesn't get you anywhere. Well, maybe if he's Hasek in his prime, but even in that case your team is still a surprise team and not seen as a contender. Pretty much all the really good teams of the recent past were build from within, that's what the Islanders are trying to do.

Comrie and Guerin were free agents, and they were needed to lead the team, especially the younger players. They weren't supposed to get the Islanders into the playoffs and have absolutely nothing to do with acquiring Malkin, so I have no idea why you bring them up.

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Old
03-17-2009, 12:43 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
Huh?
I didn't say anything like that, at all.

I said that it doesn't make sense to throw all the youth, players and picks it would take to get Pittsburgh to give up Malkin, because the team wouldn't be anywhere near a contender, and without any assets to become one.

When Crosby and Ovechkin came into the league, they were instant stars, yet their teams failed, finishing 14th and 15th in the Eastern Conference. That's the situation the Islanders would be in. They would have one big star and not much behind him. Plus, they wouldn't have the youth those two teams already had on the roster, because all of that went to Pittsburgh in the trade.

There are teams which contend or are about to contend, and there are those which are far away from contending. The latter ones aren't in a position to trade for superstars. It wouldn't improve them, because one star alone doesn't get you anywhere. Well, maybe if he's Hasek in his prime, but even in that case your team is still a surprise team and not seen as a contender.

Comrie and Guerin were free agents, and they were needed to lead the team, especially the younger players. They weren't supposed to get the Islanders into the playoffs and have absolutely nothing to do with acquiring Malkin, so I have no idea why you bring them up.
You said the cost would be too much in acquiring malkin if your refering to the trade proposal which this thread is about then tell me what part of this trade is costly to the islander the two undrafted prospect one of which would be a blue chip prospect whos ceiling might be malkin and a late first rounder with mark streit.

Do you think thats giving up too much for malkin?

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Old
03-17-2009, 12:56 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeygod66 View Post
You said the cost would be too much in acquiring malkin if your refering to the trade proposal which this thread is about then tell me what part of this trade is costly to the islander the two undrafted prospect one of which would be a blue chip prospect whos ceiling might be malkin and a late first rounder with mark streit.

Do you think thats giving up too much for malkin?
I already told you, twice actually. Heck, I even pointed you to where it is in my first post.

Oh well, I'll tell you a third time. No, I was not talking about the original proposal, nor did I say anywhere that the proposal was even close to being enough, quite the opposite actually, as I mentioned that it would take much more than that for Pittsburgh to give up Malkin.

To make it even more obvious:
- it would take a lot of prospects, picks and established players to get Malkin
- afterwards, the Islanders wouldn't have any real youth and no support for Malkin
- with no support, the team would still be bad, and there would be no youth to get better soon
- thus it doesn't make any sense to trade for Malkin
- having lots of good youth is the way most of the recent top-teams were built, which leads us to assume that this approach is quite a good plan, something the Islanders should try

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Old
03-17-2009, 01:01 PM
  #31
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The only way this would work is if the Pens had to drastically slash payroll and the Isles needed a superstar to "make some noise" in the area and push their new arena project (similar to how Crosby's arrival energized Pittsburgh and helped getting the new building).

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Old
03-17-2009, 01:01 PM
  #32
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Kessel, Esposito, Tavares, there is always the next Crosby or Malkin. Somehow I feel safer keeping the one we know can do it rather than a lottery ticket who if everything goes right might come close to what we have already. Oh yeah, a mid-round first as well. Whooopie.

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Old
03-17-2009, 01:02 PM
  #33
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What if I throw in Jeremy Colliton?...

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Old
03-17-2009, 01:56 PM
  #34
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Unfair much?

Streit + Tavares/Hedman + a pick that could be as low as 16th overall

for

Malkin

Don't underestimate SJ's choking ability, and also don't under estimate the skill of Tavares. The OHL allowed him to be drafted at age 14 for a reason. Not to mention trading 3 good pieces for 1 isn't the ideal rebuilding strategy.

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Old
03-17-2009, 01:57 PM
  #35
grabo84
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The Leafs will take Malkin if the Isles don't want him.

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carboneer View Post
Malkin has 97 POINTS!!!!!!!

Pitt would laugh at this proposal
dude nobody here is saying malkin is a bum, bc hes an absolute beast, however, trading away the picks the isles need to rebuild, their one real good prospect and their best player now, for AH player, makes zero sense for the team, no matter how great he is. malkin wont be scoring 5 goals a game and playing center and defense on the same power play etcetc.

bad trade both ways

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:14 PM
  #37
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeygod66 View Post
Do you think thats giving up too much for malkin?
For the Islanders, yes?

A similar proposal for a team like BOS or CAR or even CLB or FLA might be a whole different story.

Sidenote:
- if either Pittsburgh or the NYIs felt they were giving their divisional opponent an opportunity to be a true threat to them in the division/conference for the next few years by making such a trade, it'd likely not happen anyways.

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
What if I throw in Jeremy Colliton?...
Haaaaaaaa

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Hard to see this deal actually happening even though I do think the value is pretty close, simply because of the backlash in Pittsburgh if Malkin is ever traded.
No, I really don't think this is close.

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:17 PM
  #40
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Sorry about my post about dealing with Crosby and Malkin, I worded my post wrong.

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:23 PM
  #41
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For either side it makes no sense, that is not near enough to acquire a top 3 player in the league right now who still has his best years ahead of him. But it also makes no sense for the Isles. Streit's the Isles' best player and very possibly the next Islander Captain. The Isles will be left with even worse defensive depth. The picks are obviously unproven, but for a rebuilding team, you don't trade your 1st rounders.

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:25 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
What if I throw in Jeremy Colliton?...
35 posts to bring in the sweetner

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Old
03-17-2009, 02:37 PM
  #43
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This would never happen for reasons too long to be stored in all the HF servers, but I'm curious as to what Pens fans would think of a trade such as Malkin for Bergenheim, Okposo and the 1st (Hedman). It's trading proven for potential, which is frowned on by all the pros here, but if the potential pans out (and those 3 have as good a chance of panning out as any), that would put both their offense and defense over the top for years to come.

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Old
03-17-2009, 03:46 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
This would never happen for reasons too long to be stored in all the HF servers, but I'm curious as to what Pens fans would think of a trade such as Malkin for Bergenheim, Okposo and the 1st (Hedman). It's trading proven for potential, which is frowned on by all the pros here, but if the potential pans out (and those 3 have as good a chance of panning out as any), that would put both their offense and defense over the top for years to come.
Would you trade Ovechkin for that package? Same thing goes for Malkin.

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Old
03-17-2009, 05:02 PM
  #45
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1) The Pens don't need another offensive defenseman. We already have Gonchar and Letang, and Goligoski stuck in the minors.

2) Trading the league's leading scorer would be supremely stupid to begin with. Never mind that he's 22, signed for the next 5 years, and the proposed deal would be within the division.

Terrible.

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Old
03-17-2009, 05:24 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Would you trade Ovechkin for that package? Same thing goes for Malkin.
If I had Ovechkin AND Kovalchuk signed to identical contracts, on an analogous trade with Ovechkin for Tavares, Okposo, and the Isles equivalent to Bergenheim in a defenseman (which they don't have, so probably a younger Streit), I'd think about it.

If Penguins had only Malkin (or only Crosby), I'd never raise the question.

Obviously, as emotionally invested fans of Penguins you'd never do it, or pretty much any trade involving Malkin (and I mentioned that it would never happen due to a lot of reasons). You're accustomed to Malkin, your team drafted him, he excelled there, you pay more attention to him than any other fan base. If I woke up tomorrow and heard on the radio that McPhee shipped off Ovechkin and Nylander for Detroit's top 2 lines, top 2 pairings, every 1st round pick till judgment day, a vial of Chris Chelios's spinal fluid and a conditional Halak, I'd drop whatever I'm doing and go set fire to his children. I understand where you're coming from, (even though in this case it's more like a super charged Semin, but yeah, lets not get into details).

I was just curious if people who watch Penguins the most would feel if that was, based strictly on what would improve their team and their cup chances in the near future, an even trade.


Last edited by Alex28*: 03-17-2009 at 06:24 PM.
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Old
03-17-2009, 06:37 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Unfair much?

Streit + Tavares/Hedman + a pick that could be as low as 16th overall

for

Malkin

Don't underestimate SJ's choking ability, and also don't under estimate the skill of Tavares. The OHL allowed him to be drafted at age 14 for a reason. Not to mention trading 3 good pieces for 1 isn't the ideal rebuilding strategy.

Might want to check out the NHL draft rules. The pick can't drop that low - regardless of how San Jose does in the playoffs. Because they'll win their division, it is certain to be a late round pick.

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Old
03-17-2009, 06:47 PM
  #48
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Pens don't want to trade Malkin
We don't want to trade Okposo(I know he wasn't in the original deal, but I want to try to be fair here), Tavares/Hedman/other, Streit, and a late first rounder in one deal(despite who we get back)

Both sides say no thanks, and are happy about it. No hard feelings.

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Old
03-17-2009, 06:53 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
If I had Ovechkin AND Kovalchuk signed to identical contracts, on an analogous trade with Ovechkin for Tavares, Okposo, and the Isles equivalent to Bergenheim in a defenseman (which they don't have, so probably a younger Streit), I'd think about it.
Having Crosby doesn't make Malkin expendable and vice versa.

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Old
03-17-2009, 06:55 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Having Crosby doesn't make Malkin expendable and vice versa.
Everybody knows you can only have one star per team.

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