HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Higgins to the Islanders

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-17-2009, 04:48 PM
  #51
SLAPSHOT723
Look out!!!
 
SLAPSHOT723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 17,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
Well Garth Snow is an idiot, he'll probably trade down again, which honestly I hope doesn't happen since I'd really like to see the Isles succeed again.
Please be more incorrect. I double-dog dare you.

SLAPSHOT723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 05:44 PM
  #52
Pure
Registered User
 
Pure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
let the Islanders fans/management find that out!I wouldn't give him more then 4.5 a year
I don't think MTL fans would like to see Islanders steal both Streit and Komisarek from them.

Pure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 06:14 PM
  #53
TheCH*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
I don't think MTL fans would like to see Islanders steal both Streit and Komisarek from them.
Streit wasn't stolen, Gainey never negotiated with his agent whatsoever. Streit's side put in an offer during the season last year for $2.5M/year over 3 years i think it was and Gainey never even got back to them or countered the offer at all. He had no intentions in retaining Streit, and for that he was very idiotic!

Komisarek will have to be stolen though because Gainey will push hard to keep this guy.

TheCH* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 06:15 PM
  #54
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 40,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by C77 View Post
I don't believe the Islanders would trade their 1st round pick except under the most extreme circumstances. It would not benefit the organization to do so and Milbury's not in charge anymore.

I don't know how a discussion of the Isles packaging one of their three 2nd rounders for a struggling vet who still has decent upside turned into a conversation about the Isles first....

__________________
Man, do I ever miss Oleg Kvasha. If Oleg was here, everything would be OK.
Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 06:15 PM
  #55
Rayne*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
It's San Jose's pick.
I stand corrected.

Rayne* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 06:18 PM
  #56
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 40,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Streit wasn't stolen, Gainey never negotiated with his agent whatsoever. Streit's side put in an offer during the season last year for $2.5M/year over 3 years i think it was and Gainey never even got back to them or countered the offer at all. He had no intentions in retaining Streit, and for that he was very idiotic!

Komisarek will have to be stolen though because Gainey will push hard to keep this guy.

Streit wasn't "stolen." Gainey made the very reasonable choice o maximize his salary and payroll room elsewhere.

As for Komi, I doubt he come to the Island but would not be surprised at all to see him signed away from the Habs.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2009, 06:08 AM
  #57
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Streit wasn't stolen, Gainey never negotiated with his agent whatsoever. Streit's side put in an offer during the season last year for $2.5M/year over 3 years i think it was and Gainey never even got back to them or countered the offer at all. He had no intentions in retaining Streit, and for that he was very idiotic!

Komisarek will have to be stolen though because Gainey will push hard to keep this guy.
Yep, stolen is not an accurate word in this case.

What I wonder about is how Habs fans feel about how Streit's "value to the team" was severely underestimated by Gainey?

There's no doubt that the Streit we see on the Islanders right now could have been a HUGE success factor for a Habs team having a difficult, difficult season.

No matter what folks say about the financial situation, Streit is having an overall better season than say, Tanguay. He would likely have been more important for that Montreal PP too.

No if, ands or buts, the guy was a loss to Montreal.

Currently +5 and 15-37-52 for a team sporting the league's worst record. He's a goodin'!

Chapin Landvogt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2009, 08:48 AM
  #58
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 20,504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Yep, stolen is not an accurate word in this case.

What I wonder about is how Habs fans feel about how Streit's "value to the team" was severely underestimated by Gainey?

There's no doubt that the Streit we see on the Islanders right now could have been a HUGE success factor for a Habs team having a difficult, difficult season.

No matter what folks say about the financial situation, Streit is having an overall better season than say, Tanguay. He would likely have been more important for that Montreal PP too.

No if, ands or buts, the guy was a loss to Montreal.

Currently +5 and 15-37-52 for a team sporting the league's worst record. He's a goodin'!
It would be OT to this thread, but I think the problem the Habs had was in not replacing Streit on the PP with *anything*. Streit himself doesn't count as a loss to us per se, in that he simply never showed that he was good enough to play defense on our team, despite being given ample opportunity, and while he did a pretty solid job putting up points as a forward and on the PP, it was quite fair for Gainey to presume that those were relatively soft points that could be easily replaced (both by some new acquisitions like Tanguay, and by our young players continuing to progress).

But two things happened subsequently. The Habs never found any kind of answer at all for the PP. And Streit has apparently made some kind of quantum leap forward in his ability to play in his own zone.

I don't feel bad about the loss of Streit and I guess it's still hard for me and some other Habs fans to believe that he's really as good as he's showing on the Isles right now. (We pretty much have to take your word for it, though). I just wish the Habs had been a bit more successful in their summer recruiting program to replace him. With my doubts about him still not fully erased by the testimony from the Island, I still wouldn't take him back on the Habs with his current contract. As crazy as that will sound to Isles fans, it's just hard to believe a guy who was so bad for us defensively got so good overnight. 200 games seen with my own eyes is a tough mountain of evidence for some internet testimony to fully overcome. At least fully to the tune of a $20M contract.

On topic to the original proposal, there is no way the Habs trade Chris Higgins for a draft pick, that's nuts. Whether the Isles even want him or not, the bottom line is that even a low 1st is hit or miss to make the NHL, and Higgins is a pretty decent NHL player already, so there's no percentage whatsoever in the Habs giving him up like that.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2009, 09:42 AM
  #59
Jeffrey
Registered User
 
Jeffrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,449
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Jeffrey
I remember that a quote from Gainey, it was something like that:

" Good GM have to sell high and buy low ''

Selling Higgins right now is a non-sense as his value is at an all-time low. His next contract should be a very good bargain. IMO higgins is a freaking good 3rd liner for the future and hopefully Gainey doesnt make any other blunder like it the past and realise that trading Higgins for anything not valuable(like a draft pick) is idiotic and a setback to the canadiens hockey club !

Jeffrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2009, 10:48 AM
  #60
Chapin Landvogt
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 12,399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
It would be OT to this thread, but I think the problem the Habs had was in not replacing Streit on the PP with *anything*. Streit himself doesn't count as a loss to us per se, in that he simply never showed that he was good enough to play defense on our team, despite being given ample opportunity, and while he did a pretty solid job putting up points as a forward and on the PP, it was quite fair for Gainey to presume that those were relatively soft points that could be easily replaced (both by some new acquisitions like Tanguay, and by our young players continuing to progress).

But two things happened subsequently. The Habs never found any kind of answer at all for the PP. And Streit has apparently made some kind of quantum leap forward in his ability to play in his own zone.

I don't feel bad about the loss of Streit and I guess it's still hard for me and some other Habs fans to believe that he's really as good as he's showing on the Isles right now. (We pretty much have to take your word for it, though). I just wish the Habs had been a bit more successful in their summer recruiting program to replace him. With my doubts about him still not fully erased by the testimony from the Island, I still wouldn't take him back on the Habs with his current contract. As crazy as that will sound to Isles fans, it's just hard to believe a guy who was so bad for us defensively got so good overnight. 200 games seen with my own eyes is a tough mountain of evidence for some internet testimony to fully overcome. At least fully to the tune of a $20M contract.
Thanks for this explanation.

With this in mind, Streit must have made quantum leaps in the defensive department because he's been smart and solid in our own end all year. He can really play back there. When he arrived, he claimed that the switching around between forward and defenseman is what made him a bit spotty in his own end. He wanted to prove he could be solid by being a full-time Dman and that one of the main reasons he signed on the Island was to prove this, knowing they'd only be using him as a Dman.

Up to now, it looks like he's lived up to that.

Now He's the best transition player we've had in ages. I actually think he's as good an overall player as Kenny Jonsson was, but simply better offensively.

In any case, he's been a complete win for us everywhere on the ice and has simply been our best player from day one.

Chapin Landvogt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2009, 10:46 AM
  #61
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 20,504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Thanks for this explanation.

With this in mind, Streit must have made quantum leaps in the defensive department because he's been smart and solid in our own end all year. He can really play back there. When he arrived, he claimed that the switching around between forward and defenseman is what made him a bit spotty in his own end. He wanted to prove he could be solid by being a full-time Dman and that one of the main reasons he signed on the Island was to prove this, knowing they'd only be using him as a Dman.
I don't think quantum leaps are entirely out of character for Streit either. When he first came over he was *abysmal* in pretty much every sense. Management drew criticism for even keeping him on the team in his first year. (cf. Hainsey loss, Beauchemin emergence in Anaheim also as sidebars in that story). By his second year, he was contributing and a solid bargain player in an unsung role. By his third year he was a huge bargain player putting up good pointage. Even still, our defense personnel dropped off pretty severely after Hamrlik, Markov, and Komisarek, so it was telling that he couldn't play ahead of any of the rest of the guys on our depth chart as a regular defenseman.

But he's obviously a clever guy, and was always well-liked for his personality and effort. Normally you don't expect a guy clocking 30 to be making multiple quantum leaps in development, but in Streit's case with a lot of it perhaps being adaptation, he's clearly doing it. We could never afford to give him 25 minutes a night to adapt, we would have been burned too many times and lost too many games as a result, but for whatever reason, it's nice to see that he has done it with the Isles. One thing's for sure is that almost all Habs fans appreciate what he did do for us and genuinely wish him well and are happy that he has found so much success with the Islanders.

And we dare to hope that now all you fans of other teams can see how good our players are! Streit. Ryder isn't so awful in Boston now, is he? I think Higgins should not be underrated either.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2009, 10:50 AM
  #62
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And we dare to hope that now all you fans of other teams can see how good our players are! Streit. Ryder isn't so awful in Boston now, is he? I think Higgins should not be underrated either.
Habs fans usually seem to be their own players harshest critics if you ask me. I agree on Higgins, he gets thrown into every trade proposal because he's having a bad year. It was even worse with Ryder last year.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-24-2009, 05:07 PM
  #63
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,971
vCash: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
I think trading down and drafting Josh Bailey when you could've had Luke Schenn or Nikita Filatov is pretty good proof. It's not an Islanders GM thing, it's more to do with that fact that Charles Wang thought, for whatever reason, that his former backup goalie would somehow magically be the best candidate to run the Isles. Do many Isles fans dispute this? I'd like to know, honestly.
Go do some homework.Read the post draft grades from different scouts and prospect sites.They gave the isles very high marks for their 2008 draft.

And get back to me when Luke Schenn or Nikita Filatov actually accomplish something in the nhl

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 03:12 PM
  #64
4cups*
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
I think trading down and drafting Josh Bailey when you could've had Luke Schenn or Nikita Filatov is pretty good proof. It's not an Islanders GM thing, it's more to do with that fact that Charles Wang thought, for whatever reason, that his former backup goalie would somehow magically be the best candidate to run the Isles. Do many Isles fans dispute this? I'd like to know, honestly.
No wonder the Leafs haven't won a Cup in almost 50 years, their fans is as dumb as their organization! Schenn at best is Brendan Witt, so that trade with the Isles was terrible on Torontos part & Bailey is already better then Schenn & Filatov. Bailey will be a better version of Doug Weight once this kid has developed. The question is will Shenn be better than Witt?? I highly doubt it!!

4cups* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 03:13 PM
  #65
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
No wonder the Leafs haven't won a Cup in almost 50 years, their fans is as dumb as their organization! Schenn at best is Brendan Witt, so that trade with the Isles was terrible on Torontos part & Bailey is already better then Schenn & Filatov. Bailey will be a better version of Doug Weight once this kid has developed. The question is will Shenn be better than Witt?? I highly doubt it!!
This whole post made my day. But I especially liked the highlighted parts.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 03:20 PM
  #66
4cups*
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
This whole post made my day. But I especially liked the highlighted parts.
Leaf fans always make my day, they are always clueless!

4cups* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 03:23 PM
  #67
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
Leaf fans always make my day, they are always clueless!
Of course.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 03:40 PM
  #68
TheCH*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Yep, stolen is not an accurate word in this case.

What I wonder about is how Habs fans feel about how Streit's "value to the team" was severely underestimated by Gainey?

There's no doubt that the Streit we see on the Islanders right now could have been a HUGE success factor for a Habs team having a difficult, difficult season.

No matter what folks say about the financial situation, Streit is having an overall better season than say, Tanguay. He would likely have been more important for that Montreal PP too.

No if, ands or buts, the guy was a loss to Montreal.

Currently +5 and 15-37-52 for a team sporting the league's worst record. He's a goodin'!
Gainey is always rambling on about "assessments" of players. In Streit's case, he was way off base. He found out pretty quick how vital a big shot was to the pp, and like i said he could have extended him during the season last year for $2.5M/year and passed. So yeah he was severely underestimated.

A lot of habs fans like to rectify Gainey's decision by saying Streit wanted to play D and he wasn't good enough for the habs in that department. Well, fact is he was better on D for us then Brisebois, Bouillon and O'Byrne. I would have rated him as our 5th best in his own end(behind Markov, Hamrlik, Komo and Gorges). So $2.5M/year for an elite pp specialist and bottom pairing D is a steal just based on his pp abilities alone. And if he was retained we wouldn't have had to trade for Schneider(who is worse then Streit in the defensive end).

TheCH* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 04:14 PM
  #69
Kencaid
Registered User
 
Kencaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Habs fans usually seem to be their own players harshest critics if you ask me. I agree on Higgins, he gets thrown into every trade proposal because he's having a bad year. It was even worse with Ryder last year.
Actually if i remember correctly habs fans were also throwing higgins in as well, with a first? Higgins was also in the deal for sundin that never went through.

What I have never understood about higgins in montreal is that he has been an Assistant captain for most of his stay in montreal, and was only 25?? Not only is he young, but hes also one of your best defensive forwards on your team, and yet he is always thrown into trade rumours regularly. I do not understand montreals logic with their players. Some guys seem to idolized who are not actually that great, and are way over rated (every team does this, but i will say montreal has recently been doing this alot more, even more then my maple laffs). A great example is lapierre (an untouchable idol in montreal), who has 6 more pts than higgins in 22 more games. This is keeping in mind that higgins has had a terrible year. Not to mention the team is being lead in points by a d-man.......only other team doing that is NYI????? Getting rid of higgins after a down year is a bad idea. Montreal needs to stack up on some more character players (i know lapierrre is one of these guys, i actually like his game as a whole, but he is over rated), getting rid of higgins would be a bad move.

Kencaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 04:32 PM
  #70
TheCH*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kencaid View Post
Actually if i remember correctly habs fans were also throwing higgins in as well, with a first? Higgins was also in the deal for sundin that never went through.

What I have never understood about higgins in montreal is that he has been an Assistant captain for most of his stay in montreal, and was only 25?? Not only is he young, but hes also one of your best defensive forwards on your team, and yet he is always thrown into trade rumours regularly. I do not understand montreals logic with their players. Some guys seem to idolized who are not actually that great, and are way over rated (every team does this, but i will say montreal has recently been doing this alot more, even more then my maple laffs). A great example is lapierre (an untouchable idol in montreal), who has 6 more pts than higgins in 22 more games. This is keeping in mind that higgins has had a terrible year. Not to mention the team is being lead in points by a d-man.......only other team doing that is NYI????? Getting rid of higgins after a down year is a bad idea. Montreal needs to stack up on some more character players (i know lapierrre is one of these guys, i actually like his game as a whole, but he is over rated), getting rid of higgins would be a bad move.
Lapierre is definitely not overrated. Any habs fan will tell you he is a third-forth line agitator, how the F is that overrating him? When you are judging his game, point production is irrelevant. For most of the year the guy was the forth center behind Lang, Koivu and Plekanec and has stepped up to a third line role due to injuries.

Higgins is depended on to score. For what their role is, Lapierre is having a far superior year. But like Higgins, pretty much all of the habs players that are supposed to be scoring aren't getting it done. Having said that, i like Higgins and don't want him traded.

TheCH* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 04:41 PM
  #71
KH1
Registered User
 
KH1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Under the cap floor
Country: United States
Posts: 16,018
vCash: 500
Stepping back from the ledge with all this Garth Snow/Bob Gainey talk, I have to believe the Isles absolutely jump on the original proposal if it's offered. The Isles need some players who can score goals, and Higgins can score goals. They've got plenty of picks and can afford to spare a second rounder for a good player who should be entering his prime.

KH1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 05:34 PM
  #72
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,774
vCash: 500
I'd say that Higgins is one of the most overrated players in the NHL right now.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good guy to have on your team, he has ability and he's having an offseason... but I fail to see how he's anything more than a decent gritty two-way player who is probably good for about 20 goals.

Hell, I'd rather have Ryder right now... the guy the Habs fans wanted gone at all costs for having one bad season after two 30 goal seasons.

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2009, 08:07 PM
  #73
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
I'd say that Higgins is one of the most overrated players in the NHL right now.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good guy to have on your team, he has ability and he's having an offseason... but I fail to see how he's anything more than a decent gritty two-way player who is probably good for about 20 goals.

Hell, I'd rather have Ryder right now... the guy the Habs fans wanted gone at all costs for having one bad season after two 30 goal seasons.
Higgins has elite speed though, which was a huge hole in Ryder's game. I put a lot of value on speed, so Higgins appeals to me as a player.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2009, 12:06 AM
  #74
IslesBeBack*
NHL Free Agent
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Higgins has elite speed though, which was a huge hole in Ryder's game. I put a lot of value on speed, so Higgins appeals to me as a player.
I see Higgins topping out as a second line player. Not too shabby, but I don't think he'll ever put up the big numbers. Think top-end defensive forward.. average of 50-60 points a year.

I can't speak on what I know.. but the Islanders organization being interested in the other Long Island native is no secret at this point.

SHOULD Komisarek sign on the dotted line, perhaps a deal is worked out to bring over his friend.

Otherwise.. I don't see any deal working out.. and if something was going to be done I imagine the deadline was the place. Much smoke, no fire.

This may take on a McCabe type rumour story, and we should all end it now.

IslesBeBack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2009, 01:09 AM
  #75
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 40,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
I see Higgins topping out as a second line player. Not too shabby, but I don't think he'll ever put up the big numbers. Think top-end defensive forward.. average of 50-60 points a year.

I can't speak on what I know.. but the Islanders organization being interested in the other Long Island native is no secret at this point.

SHOULD Komisarek sign on the dotted line, perhaps a deal is worked out to bring over his friend.

Otherwise.. I don't see any deal working out.. and if something was going to be done I imagine the deadline was the place. Much smoke, no fire.

This may take on a McCabe type rumour story, and we should all end it now.
What hard evidence do you have that the Isles are interested in Komisarek? I'm not talking about speculation on chat boards, veiled references in Chris Botta's blog, or wishful thinking by Isles fans.

Personally, I don't think the Isles are going to make any effort whatsoever to pursue either of these players.

Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.