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You're Pens GM Ray Shero in the Offseason...

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Old
03-15-2009, 11:41 AM
  #226
AK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
:

RW Fernando Pisani
RW Ales Hemsky
3rd '09

:

D Alex Goligoski
C Jordan Staal

Kunitz-Crosby-Kennedy
Sykora-Malkin-Hemsky
Dupuis-Talbot-Pisani
Cooke-Jeffrey-Godard
Not close to enough for Hemsky alone.

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03-15-2009, 11:50 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Not close to enough for Hemsky alone.
I'd love to have Hemsky, but give me a break. Hemsky's a talent, but let's get some perspective here. Hemsky is massively overvalued. Staal projects to be a much more complete player.

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03-15-2009, 12:05 PM
  #228
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I haven't actually taken the time yet to crunch the numbers, so I'll do it here.

This is my armchair GM estimation of the Pens lineup next year, just to show how easy it is even with Crosby and Malkin.

Kunitz (3.7)- Crosby (8.7)- Kotalik (3.0)
Zednik (2.6)- Malkin (8.7)- Sykora (3.2)
Cooke (1.2)- Staal (4.0)- Kennedy (1.0)
Talbot (1.1)- Jeffrey (0.6) Godard (0.7)

Gonchar (5.0)- Orpik (3.7)
Letang (0.8)- Scuderi (1.5)
Goligoski (0.9)- Lovejoy (0.6)

Fleury (5.0)
Curry/UFA (0.6)

TOTAL CAP HIT: 56.6 MILLION

That looks like a better team that the pretty good bunch the Pens have right nw.

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03-15-2009, 12:09 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
lol that must be it. Pens can't afford to ice a contender in a cap era with 2 players making 17 million. 27 million goes to 4 players so that leaves them with roughly 23 million to fill out the roster with cheap scrubs. 1 of the big 2 will be traded if the cap drops below 50 million. It's not a knock on the Pens, just harsh reality in a cap era.
If I'm any GM, I'd rather have two superstars and scrubs on the bottom six, thank you very much.

Most teams don't even have one superstar. If you're lucky enough to have two, you do whatever it takes to keep 'em. That would include moving Gonchar, Orpik, Staal, or hell even Fleury before you move Malkin or Crosby. That's the harsh reality in a cap era.

Funny how not very many (if any) Penguins fans think one of Malkin/Crosby can/should be traded. It's always fans of other teams. I'm not gonna play the jealousy card, but I do think it's a case of envy. They probably think the wealth should be spread out, particularly towards whatever team they choose to root for.

I think that, unfortunately for some, the Penguins will have no difficulty keeping the majority of their big-name players. Their drafting under Shero has been OK, but they have one of the best developmental systems in the league, and as long as they have first-contract players peppered through-out their lineup it should work out just fine. There are a number of players, at all positions, that should be key contributers sooner rather than later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
I haven't actually taken the time yet to crunch the numbers, so I'll do it here.

This is my armchair GM estimation of the Pens lineup next year, just to show how easy it is even with Crosby and Malkin.

Kunitz (3.7)- Crosby (8.7)- Kotalik (3.0)
Zednik (2.6)- Malkin (8.7)- Sykora (3.2)
Cooke (1.2)- Staal (4.0)- Kennedy (1.0)
Talbot (1.1)- Jeffrey (0.6) Godard (0.7)

Gonchar (5.0)- Orpik (3.7)
Letang (0.8)- Scuderi (1.5)
Goligoski (0.9)- Lovejoy (0.6)

Fleury (5.0)
Curry/UFA (0.6)

TOTAL CAP HIT: 56.6 MILLION

That looks like a better team that the pretty good bunch the Pens have right nw.
Looks reasonable to me. The only thing I don't agree with is Scuderi at 1.5 million. If some guy called "Jeff Finger" can get nearly 4 million, Scuderi might be in line for at least 2, and probably upwards of a 3 million cap hit, ya know?

I think the Penguins don't keep Scuderi. They could, for instance if he accepts a 1-year deal, but that money would be better spent elsewhere. Eaton's playing much better and Lovejoy could be ready to be the #6 or #7 guy by next season.

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Old
03-15-2009, 08:52 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
I haven't actually taken the time yet to crunch the numbers, so I'll do it here.

This is my armchair GM estimation of the Pens lineup next year, just to show how easy it is even with Crosby and Malkin.

Kunitz (3.7)- Crosby (8.7)- Kotalik (3.0)
Zednik (2.6)- Malkin (8.7)- Sykora (3.2)
Cooke (1.2)- Staal (4.0)- Kennedy (1.0)
Talbot (1.1)- Jeffrey (0.6) Godard (0.7)

Gonchar (5.0)- Orpik (3.7)
Letang (0.8)- Scuderi (1.5)
Goligoski (0.9)- Lovejoy (0.6)

Fleury (5.0)
Curry/UFA (0.6)

TOTAL CAP HIT: 56.6 MILLION

That looks like a better team that the pretty good bunch the Pens have right nw.
I think having Kotalik, Sykora, and Zednik all in our top 6 would make us too soft. Ideally we could have 2 outta those 3 and then picking up a power forward who can play top 6 (Knuble, Bertuzzi, etc.).

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Old
03-17-2009, 08:12 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
I haven't actually taken the time yet to crunch the numbers, so I'll do it here.

This is my armchair GM estimation of the Pens lineup next year, just to show how easy it is even with Crosby and Malkin.

Kunitz (3.7)- Crosby (8.7)- Kotalik (3.0)
Zednik (2.6)- Malkin (8.7)- Sykora (3.2)
Cooke (1.2)- Staal (4.0)- Kennedy (1.0)
Talbot (1.1)- Jeffrey (0.6) Godard (0.7)

Gonchar (5.0)- Orpik (3.7)
Letang (0.8)- Scuderi (1.5)
Goligoski (0.9)- Lovejoy (0.6)

Fleury (5.0)
Curry/UFA (0.6)

TOTAL CAP HIT: 56.6 MILLION

That looks like a better team that the pretty good bunch the Pens have right nw.
What happened to Eaton and Dupuis? Did you trade them off? I'd rather have Eaton at $2m than Scuderi at $1.5m (and like Jacob said he'll probably cost more).

I'd like the Pens to get Kotalik to play on the 2nd line w/Malkin if Sykora doesn't come back. He's a bit younger and has a pretty damned good shot. And I'd like to re-sign Guerin for a year to play with Sid and Kunitz again considering how well they have played together.

As for Malkin's LW I'm not sure who to get. I don't think Caputi or Tangradi will be up here for another year but hopefully I'm wrong.

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Old
03-17-2009, 10:35 AM
  #232
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Kunitz - Crosby - Guerin/Knuble
Caputi - Malkin - Sykora/Kotalik
Cooke - Staal - Kennedy
Dupuis - Talbot - Jeffrey
Godard

Gonchar - Orpik
Letang - Eaton
Gogo - Gill
Lovejoy

MAF
Backup

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Old
03-17-2009, 05:04 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrakaLangKovy View Post
Kunitz - Crosby - Guerin/Knuble
Caputi - Malkin - Sykora/Kotalik
Cooke - Staal - Kennedy
Dupuis - Talbot - Jeffrey
Godard

Gonchar - Orpik
Letang - Eaton
Gogo - Gill
Lovejoy

MAF
Backup
Remove Gill and possibly Dupuis, then add Zigomanis and a cheaper, more mobile #6 dman, and I like it.

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Old
03-17-2009, 07:44 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66877168 View Post
I'd love to have Hemsky, but give me a break. Hemsky's a talent, but let's get some perspective here. Hemsky is massively overvalued. Staal projects to be a much more complete player.
So what if he projects to be a more complete player?
Hemsky's a gamebreaker and value is much higher then Staals. If florida wont trade Horton for Staal i dont think youd be getting Ales for him.

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03-17-2009, 08:39 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsick View Post
So what if he projects to be a more complete player?
Hemsky's a gamebreaker and value is much higher then Staals. If florida wont trade Horton for Staal i dont think youd be getting Ales for him.
Either provide a link, or stop fibbing.

I wouldn't trade Staal for Hemsky straight-up.

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03-17-2009, 08:47 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Either provide a link, or stop fibbing.

I wouldn't trade Staal for Hemsky straight-up.
Im not saying they turned it down but alot ive seen alot of posters say it wouldnt happen.

Hemsky>>>Horton>Staal

in order of trade value.

Number 83 is a world class talent, the 2 others arent.

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03-17-2009, 09:00 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsick View Post
Im not saying they turned it down but alot ive seen alot of posters say it wouldnt happen.

Hemsky>>>Horton>Staal

in order of trade value.

Number 83 is a world class talent, the 2 others arent.
I couldn't be happier that you feel nobody would trade Horton or Hemsky for Staal.

Because I don't want the Pens to deal him. At all.

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:02 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I couldn't be happier that you feel nobody would trade Horton or Hemsky for Staal.

Because I don't want the Pens to deal him. At all.

So basically you want a 4 mill 3rd line center. Hes got the toolbox to be a first line player but im not sure its on Crosby/Malkins wing.

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:03 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsick View Post
Im not saying they turned it down but alot ive seen alot of posters say it wouldnt happen.

Hemsky>>>Horton>Staal

in order of trade value.

Number 83 is a world class talent, the 2 others arent.
I'm not sure about Horton>Staal. Since Bylsma took over 15 games ago Staal has become a beast and has 10 pts (5g, 5a) in those games.

Horton - 23 yrs old, 57 games, 19 goals, 19 assists, 38 pts

Staal - 20 yrs old, 72 games, 20 goals, 21 assists, 41 pts

Horton still has almost as many pts in 15 less games but he plays on his teams first line and probably its 1st PP unit while Staal is on the Pens 3rd line and 2nd PP unit.

Horton is a great player and I'd love to have him on the Pens but I wouldn't give up Staal for him.

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:08 PM
  #240
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Attempt to trade for Bobby Ryan.

Staal/Dupuis/1st for Ryan

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03-17-2009, 09:12 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsick View Post
So basically you want a 4 mill 3rd line center. Hes got the toolbox to be a first line player but im not sure its on Crosby/Malkins wing.
I certainly do. The doubts are everyone else's - Pens fans know what they have, and are more than content to keep him.

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03-17-2009, 10:10 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I certainly do. The doubts are everyone else's - Pens fans know what they have, and are more than content to keep him.
So you can honestly say that youd wouldnt trade Staal for Hemsky?

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03-17-2009, 10:51 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by bigsick View Post
So you can honestly say that youd wouldnt trade Staal for Hemsky?
Was it not clear enough the first time?

The Pens do not need a pass-first winger. They need a big, quick banger who can create room for the centers, take up space in front of the opposition net, and shoot when opportunity knocks. A Shane Doan type.

Staal's doing extremely well right now under a competent coach, just hit 20 goals, plays a great defensive game, and at age 20, has tons of upside left. There's absolutely no reason to trade him now (8-0-2 in their last 10 games), and the only thing that could possibly entice them would be a winger like the one I described earlier on a similar money and term contract to Staal.

Hemsky is not that player.

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03-17-2009, 11:14 PM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsick View Post
So you can honestly say that youd wouldnt trade Staal for Hemsky?
Its something that might be a better idea after next season when the cap goes down, and we'll need to cut somewhere to make everything work. A third line center can be acquired cheaper than a scoring winger. Still, at that time Hemsky will likely not be the kind of guy we'd court, because he isn't a big time scorer. We have enough assist capability.

Anyway - for next season? No. Not with the kind of performances Staal is giving us since Bylsma took over, and with how that third line is looking. Staal will only be more valuable next season, and right now we are not forced to deal him.

Remember - this season is the season where Staal is at the same age Hemsky was in his first season in the league. Hemsky's goal scoring high prior to this season was 20. That's what Staal has right now, and he has had 29 before.

Staal has 20 goals from the third line and nearly all of his 41 points are ES points. This along with being our top PK forward and most defensively responsible such. He isn't putting up as many points as a few other ace youngsters, but then again he isn't that kind of player (yet at least) and he plain doesn't have the chance to do so either with who's in front of him. Doesn't mean he isn't a huge asset to us playing like he is now.

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03-18-2009, 12:44 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Its something that might be a better idea after next season when the cap goes down, and we'll need to cut somewhere to make everything work. A third line center can be acquired cheaper than a scoring winger. Still, at that time Hemsky will likely not be the kind of guy we'd court, because he isn't a big time scorer. We have enough assist capability.

Anyway - for next season? No. Not with the kind of performances Staal is giving us since Bylsma took over, and with how that third line is looking. Staal will only be more valuable next season, and right now we are not forced to deal him.

Remember - this season is the season where Staal is at the same age Hemsky was in his first season in the league. Hemsky's goal scoring high prior to this season was 20. That's what Staal has right now, and he has had 29 before.

Staal has 20 goals from the third line and nearly all of his 41 points are ES points. This along with being our top PK forward and most defensively responsible such. He isn't putting up as many points as a few other ace youngsters, but then again he isn't that kind of player (yet at least) and he plain doesn't have the chance to do so either with who's in front of him. Doesn't mean he isn't a huge asset to us playing like he is now.
I do think Staal is a great 2way center but im not sure in the cap era you can pay him as much as you would your top line winger (hemmer/horton). If he was picked in the 5th round and didnt have the hype hed be a great long term fit for the Pens but the draft position/name wont help in the years to come.


Hemsky has put up his points playing surrounded by terrible talent. I think he would actually be a decent fit for Crosby as i think both have the skills to play a hybrid style very well. Hemsky has tons of skill and a pretty wicked wrister but just needs confidence, something that MacT cant/wont instill in him. Playing on a young team like the penguins around similiary talented young guys he could blossom into a 90 pt player. Theres a reason why Jagr(playmaker as well) said he wanted to play with him. But anyways, this will never happen.

Staal would look nice along side Hemsky as well. Penner for Staal????????????



kidding.

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Old
03-18-2009, 12:58 AM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsick View Post
Theres a reason why Jagr(playmaker as well) said he wanted to play with him.
They're from the same country? Passing the torch ?
Every Pens fan understand that it has negative consequences having so much money tied up at center. It can be negotiated next year though, and it is also a point of strenght having a third line rock as hard as the Cooke-Staal-Kennedy line does now.

But as said frequently, I also think that Staal's days at Pittsburgh are numbered. I just look to the Summer of 2010 as the time where that happens, because it would make sense to flip that salary for picks and prospects if the cap takes as big a hit as speculated. One more year for Staal could mean a very substantial change in his evaluation if the form he has shown since Bylsma became our coach carries over to next season. Right now he looks a legit 2nd line center who is ace defensively.

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Old
03-18-2009, 02:39 AM
  #247
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I wouldn't change much. Get rid of Dupuis for Mike Zigomanis. See if we can re-sign Guerin and Sykora to 1-2 year deals for about $3M avg. for each. Goligoski (RFA) for about $1-1.2M. Hope to god Caputi or Tangradi are ready to play with Malkin. Sign Zanon for around $1M. Bissonnette can stay on the roster to be the 13th forward and emergency D-man in case something happens and we don't have enough time to call up Lovejoy. So we have....

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Caputi/Tangradi-Malkin-Sykora
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Talbot-Zigomanis-Godard/Bissonnette

Orpik-Gonchar
Letang-Eaton
Goligoski-Zanon

Fleury
Curry

Total: ~$56.5M

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Old
03-18-2009, 11:11 AM
  #248
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Why not look into Kovalev? He's coming off a disappointing season and is a gamble, but he can put up 80 points playing with Malkin, and could probably be gotten for 3.5 million or less. Plus he's always been good in the playoffs.

Or, one of the most undervalued forwards in the game right now, Afinogenov, who could probably be had for 1.5 million and may very well start playing good hockey again with Ruff's ass off his chest. I mean he flourished playing with Briere, Malkin >>> Briere. One of the fastest skaters out there, good hands, not soft by any stretch, main issues are with finishing and defense, which really hamper him in Ruff's system. Given a real chance he could be a 20-25 goal scorer, and 1.5 million isn't a suicidal investment if he disappoints.

Both of those players are stereotyped, which drags down their asking price, but given a chance in the right system they could be bargains.

1 thing I've consistently noticed about Russian (former soviet in general) players is that they really raise their game when playing together. Probably stems from them being accustomed to the same style of hockey, similar strategies and positioning since an early age (much more prevalent in Russia then elsewhere, Soviets had a very distinct style which was followed by every hockey establishment there), ability to talk in their native language on the ice, extra comradery, etc. Russian 5 in Detroit being obvious example (though there were other factors in play), Kozlov with Bure, Ovechkin with Kozlov, Semin with Fedorov, Samsonov with Khristich, etc. Malkin and Gonchar feed off each other as well even though they play radically different positions.


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