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Signing: Taylor Ellington

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:14 PM
  #51
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Ahh ok, thanks for the clarification. Do you know if the loophole Wheeler used to become a UFA is still open or was that amended with the new CBA?
I think its been changed, Mike Van Ryn did the same thing (Pioneered the loophole).

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03-18-2009, 07:20 PM
  #52
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Not regretting this pick at all. Defencemen who are mean and can be a bit mobile are rare. Even if he develops into a bottom 2 dman, it fills the need for a defensive dman with some size if we lose a dman to injury, free agency or trade.

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03-18-2009, 07:38 PM
  #53
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And please, stop whining about Oscar Moller. My god, just wait until Ellington is an NHL regular and throws his first fore-arm shiver on Moller. You won't be upset when you watch him kick Moller's ass up and down the ice like he did when I went to see him against the 'whack a few years back.

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03-18-2009, 07:45 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
And please, stop whining about Oscar Moller. My god, just wait until Ellington is an NHL regular and throws his first fore-arm shiver on Moller. You won't be upset when you watch him kick Moller's ass up and down the ice like he did when I went to see him against the 'whack a few years back.
Give me a break!

Most optimistic upside for Ellington is Ossi Vannanen - whom we just picked up on waivers.

Snipers like Moller are rare. Big, slow, defensemen who take 5 years to develop into 3rd pairing players are far from rare.

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03-18-2009, 07:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post

Most optimistic upside for Ellington is Ossi Vannanen - whom we just picked up on waivers.
Who said this?
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Snipers like Moller are rare.
No, 5'11'' 170 pounds when wet, one dimensional players like Moller are overrated. We have a guy like this- Mason Raymond. He zips around real nice, getting everyone all real excited but in the end all it takes a guy like Wille Mitchell or Phanuef or Weber to breath on the guy to fall down. If we had drafted Moller, he'd be in Chillawhack, and everyone would be complaining we didnt draft *INSERT NAME HERE*.


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Big, slow, defensemen who take 5 years to develop into 3rd pairing players are far from rare.
I'd do anything if we could draft a big tough defenceman every year in the second round.
Ellington + Sauve= cheap, reliable defensively responsible pairing for years to come.

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03-18-2009, 07:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Even if he develops into a bottom 2 dman, it fills the need for a defensive dman with some size if we lose a dman to injury, free agency or trade.
Like those guys are hard to find. You don't use the 33rd pick overall on a player with a career potential of a bottom pairing defenseman. It no wonder the Moose have to overpay guys like Jason Krog to play for the team because of the lack of quality offensively talented players in the Canucks farm system & having to pay a guy like Demitra $4 million because we have nobody in the farm to take that spot.

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03-18-2009, 07:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Like those guys are hard to find. You don't use the 33rd pick overall on a player with a career potential of a bottom pairing defenseman. It no wonder the Moose have to overpay guys like Jason Krog to play for the team because of the lack of quality offensively talented players in the Canucks farm system & having to pay a guy like Demitra $4 million because we have nobody in the farm to take that spot.
Yea, its the reason you hear the saying "offence wins championships" so often.

If you're bottom 3 are going to be as good as Ellington and Sauve are going to be, We are going to be set. Besides, I'm confident one of the two will break out and be a more consistent top 4 player.

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03-18-2009, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
I'd do anything if we could draft a big tough defenceman every year in the second round.
Ellington + Sauve= cheap, reliable defensively responsible pairing for years to come.
Don't lump Ellington with Sauve at this point. Sauve has offensive skills that may or may not be developed to a point where he becomes a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. All Ellington has proven is that he can put up points as a 20 year old adult against boys.

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03-18-2009, 08:00 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Don't lump Ellington with Sauve at this point. Sauve has offensive skills that may or may not be developed to a point where he becomes a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. All Ellington has proven is that he can put up points as a 20 year old adult against boys.
Yes, points are everything.

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03-18-2009, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Yes, points are everything.
Unless you got forwards who can go "end to end" - you need offensive defenseman as well as defensive defenseman. Guess which ones are easier (and cheaper) to get via free agency?

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03-18-2009, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Unless you got forwards who can go "end to end" - you need offensive defenseman as well as defensive defenseman. Guess which ones are easier (and cheaper) to get via free agency?
Guess which ones are near impossible to come by in the second round?


Let me make a guess, you've never seen him play, and are basing your opinion on statistics?

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03-18-2009, 08:09 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Guess which ones are near impossible to come by in the second round?
Something like a 25% chance of a 2nd rounder becoming a NHLer. 33rd overall likely has a higher success rate. Guess we have different philosophies. I'd prefer to take a chance on a player being a 2nd liner vs a guy you can claim off of waivers for the same upside or sign via free agency in the off-season.


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Let me make a guess, you've never seen him play, and are basing your opinion on statistics?
Nice try but yes I have watched him play - live in fact.

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03-18-2009, 08:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Something like a 25% chance of a 2nd rounder becoming a NHLer. 33rd overall likely has a higher success rate. Guess we have different philosophies. I'd prefer to take a chance on a player being a 2nd liner vs a guy you can claim off of waivers for the same upside or sign via free agency in the off-season.
If you are planning to pluck offensive defencemen out of the second round, you are kidding yourself. They are they absolute exception, so if defence is the route you want to take, defensive is usually the way you have to go.
I think Ellington will have a far greater upside than a player just claimed off of waivers. I think that is an absurd comparison.

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Nice try but yes I have watched him play - live in fact.
I have live as well, 4 times, and I must each time I've liked him more and more. The one game I drove out to the 'whack for he absolutly destroyed one Bruin, then, still in the first period hit Moller down so hard in front of the net, Moller didn't come within 15 feet of the goalie for the rest of the game! I was laughing my ass off! Ellington turned him into a perimeter player in 1 play!

I saw him three other times in Vancouver. The first time I saw him I wasn't impressed. But every time since he's grown on me. We will see his development with the Moose next year. But, you, as long as other Canuck fans can't see passed the ends of your noses. For you, its NOW OR NEVER quick development! WHo cares about 3-4 years from now!

ha cant wait until you post in a thread in a couple years praising one of this kids hits.

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03-18-2009, 08:23 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
If you are planning to pluck offensive defencemen out of the second round, you are kidding yourself. They are they absolute exception, so if defence is the route you want to take, defensive is usually the way you have to go.
I think Ellington will have a far greater upside than a player just claimed off of waivers. I think that is an absurd comparison.
Edler - 2nd round. Do you find those type of guys all the time? Of course not, that's why the percentage are so low (as I said it's around 25%). In any event, I was more thinking of forwards (who carry less risk).

As to the waivers comparison - the player I was thinking of is Vaananen.


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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
I have live as well, 4 times, and I must each time I've liked him more and more. The one game I drove out to the 'whack for he absolutly destroyed one Bruin, then, still in the first period hit Moller down so hard in front of the net, Moller didn't come within 15 feet of the goalie for the rest of the game! I was laughing my ass off! Ellington turned him into a perimeter player in 1 play!

I saw him three other times in Vancouver. The first time I saw him I wasn't impressed. But every time since he's grown on me. We will see his development with the Moose next year. But, you, as long as other Canuck fans can't see passed the ends of your noses. For you, its NOW OR NEVER quick development! WHo cares about 3-4 years from now!

ha cant wait until you post in a thread in a couple years praising one of this kids hits.
I'm a Canuckfan and have been since they came into the league in 1970. I've remained a fan even thru the gruesome Bill LaForge days. That's almost 40 years of mediocrity but I haven't waivered. I want to be proven wrong in this case. I think Elllington will be an NHLer. I never said he'll be a bust (look - you won't find such a post). I just don't think he'll be better than a 3rd pairing "D" and would've preferred taking a chance on a forward.

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03-18-2009, 08:32 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Edler - 2nd round. Do you find those type of guys all the time? Of course not, that's why the percentage are so low (as I said it's around 25%). In any event, I was more thinking of forwards (who carry less risk).
Actually, Edler was drafted in the third round, another exception to the rule. Exceptions are rare, by definition.

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As to the waivers comparison - the player I was thinking of is Vaananen.
and for the TRILLIONTH time what are you basing this on? Whose expert opinion? How many times have you honestly seen Vaananen play? Let me guess: your going to say you've seen him play a hundred times and he's exactly like Ellington and Vaananen's experiences are linked to Ellingtons experiences and thus they will end up the exact same player.

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I just don't think he'll be better than a 3rd pairing "D" and would've preferred taking a chance on a forward.
Meh, thats preference i guess. To me, grit, worth ethic and size on the back end are worth far more than small soft players. We've been their, done that in this city over and over.

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03-18-2009, 08:36 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Actually, Edler was drafted in the third round, another exception to the rule. Exceptions are rare, by definition.
My mistake.


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and for the TRILLIONTH time what are you basing this on? Whose expert opinion? How many times have you honestly seen Vaananen play? Let me guess: your going to say you've seen him play a hundred times and he's exactly like Ellington and Vaananen's experiences are linked to Ellingtons experiences and thus they will end up the exact same player.
I haven't seen him play a "100 times" but I have watched the Flyers a fair bit this season. He looked decent enough for a third pairing guy - though it's tough to say with complete certainty and he DID play with a 1st pairing guy for a good part of the time (ie., Ohlund sure made Sopel look good pre-lockout days).

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Meh, thats preference i guess. To me, grit, worth ethic and size on the back end are worth far more than small soft players. We've been their, done that in this city over and over.
In the mid-70s/80s/90s (mostly), I don't think the Canucks were short on grit, work ethic and size on the back end. It was largely lack of talent (there and up front).


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03-18-2009, 09:31 PM
  #67
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I'd do anything if we could draft a big tough defenceman every year in the second round.
Ellington + Sauve= cheap, reliable defensively responsible pairing for years to come.
First of all, Ellington and Sauve are in no way alike. Sauve is more like a poor man's Bourdon.

If big slow defensemen are so rare - why is it that for the last 3 or four years we have been able to pick up multiple guys like Rory Fitzpatrick, Mike Weaver, Aaron Miller, Rob Davison, Ossi Vaananen, even Shane O'Brien etc. never paying them much more than $1M and all have filled this role adequately. If a defenseman was any better, he would be a #3 or #4 guy playing 20 minutes a night.

The reason all of these are old guys is that the primary requirement for this job is experience. Experience comes from making mistakes. I would much rather have a guy be developed in someone else's minor pro system and spend 3 or 4 years making mistakes at the NHL level, then pick him up for $1M as a veteran free agent. Unless he is 6'7", there is absolutely no reason to waste a draft pick on them.

As far as "one dimensional" players like Oscar Moller, the one dimension they bring - scoring goals, seems to be highly valued in this league. Maybe it is because as long has he has a few brain cells, you can teach a big, slow defenseman to play better positionally. You can't teach someone to score goals. If Ellington is such a rare find, maybe Gillis could suggest an Ellington for Moller trade. When Dean Lombardi stops laughing he says - "No seriously, why are you calling ...".

Hey - if he turns out to have Willie Mitchel potential, I'd be happily corrected. But for Rory Fitzpatrick or Ossi Vaananen potential he is not worth the draft pick.


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03-19-2009, 12:40 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
I haven't seen him play a "100 times" but I have watched the Flyers a fair bit this season. He looked decent enough for a third pairing guy - though it's tough to say with complete certainty and he DID play with a 1st pairing guy for a good part of the time (ie., Ohlund sure made Sopel look good pre-lockout days).
But what exactly are you basing this comparison on? Vaananen is turning 29 years old..what skills, deficiencies, attributes etc are you basing this on?
Frankly I dont see the comparison at all. I guarantee you one thing, Ellington will have more fights in pro hockey by the age of 24 than your boy Ossi has at 29.

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In the mid-70s/80s/90s (mostly), I don't think the Canucks were short on grit, work ethic and size on the back end. It was largely lack of talent (there and up front).
No one says we should completely ignore upper end talent but its crazy to think you can just pick up guys like Ellington off of waivers any time you want. It just doesnt happen. Ossi isn't comparable. He's 29 years old.

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03-19-2009, 12:45 AM
  #69
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First of all, Ellington and Sauve are in no way alike. Sauve is more like a poor man's Bourdon.

If big slow defensemen are so rare - why is it that for the last 3 or four years we have been able to pick up multiple guys like Rory Fitzpatrick, Mike Weaver, Aaron Miller, Rob Davison, Ossi Vaananen, even Shane O'Brien etc. never paying them much more than $1M and all have filled this role adequately. If a defenseman was any better, he would be a #3 or #4 guy playing 20 minutes a night.
ROFLZ the fact that you lump in all those dmen into the same group makes me simply want to dismiss your post all together. Comparing a 20 year old prospect to a guy on one leg in Aaron Miller, AHL'rs in Fitzpatrick, Weaver and Davison, and a 7th dman in Ossi is lunacy.
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The reason all of these are old guys is that the primary requirement for this job is experience. Experience comes from making mistakes. I would much rather have a guy be developed in someone else's minor pro system and spend 3 or 4 years making mistakes at the NHL level, then pick him up for $1M as a veteran free agent. Unless he is 6'7", there is absolutely no reason to waste a draft pick on them.
Wow. Thank the dear lord you aren't our pro scouts. You'd be worse than ****ing Delorme.
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As far as "one dimensional" players like Oscar Moller, the one dimension they bring - scoring goals, seems to be highly valued in this league. Maybe it is because as long has he has a few brain cells, you can teach a big, slow defenseman to play better positionally. You can't teach someone to score goals. If Ellington is such a rare find, maybe Gillis could suggest an Ellington for Moller trade. When Dean Lombardi stops laughing he says - "No seriously, why are you calling ...".
I dont see many 1 dimensional players playing in the league, especially with low level sniper skills like Moller. There is a reason Grabner is still in the AHL, and a reason that, if playing on any other team than one thats not a perennial bottom feeder, your loverboy would be in the WHL, getting absolutely smashed by guys like Ellington, over and over.
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Hey - if he turns out to have Willie Mitchel potential, I'd be happily corrected. But for Rory Fitzpatrick or Ossi Vaananen potential he is not worth the draft pick.
So wait...as long as he turns out you'll be happy, but until then you will complain? Got it. safe bet.

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