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Pittsburgh will have to make moves

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:10 AM
  #26
neoen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post

Detroit:

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Rafalski - 18.7 Actually about 21 mil for next year, + whoever of Franzen, Hossa, Lidstrom are re-signed.

This brings up a good point about Detroit and the problems they will have. Next year we already know that they will have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Rafalski, and Lidstrom at a cost of about 27.5. Thats for four guys! If you want to resign Hossa, that will likely be at least another 6. So lets so they do not resign Franzen. Thats 33.5 mil for 5 guys, you still have another 15 guys to contract with about 22 million (spec. 54 mil cap)

Well you got Filppula making 3, Cleary making 2, Holmstrom making 2, Kronwall and Stuart both making 3. That leaves you with 9 million of cap space, for 9 more players and 2 more goalies, with 1 of those goalies likely being a better one than osgood, recieving more than 1.5 mil!

You need to go more indepth with these things. Pittsburgh will have a problem, Detroit will have a problem, and with the sweet economy it may hurt Detroit even more if they start having troubles filling the building.

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03-19-2009, 01:17 AM
  #27
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Seriously, though, why worry about 2010-11 right now? Yes, the cap could go down that season. Also, it could not. Also, any number of Pittsburgh's players could go down to a siginificant, or career-ending injury, and not count against the cap anyways. Anything can happen in two years. I think we should all focus on this season for now, and worry about two years in the future in two years.

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:22 AM
  #28
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lol..i like the career or season ending injury...that's definitely something good to bank on!

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:33 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by pensteel71 View Post
Okay say the Isles get Tavares.

Tavares, Okposo, 1st 2010, 2nd 2009 and possibly another prospec

for Malkin.

Isles say NO - big time... That hinders their rebuild big time.

I know alot of Islander fans say they wouldn't but I would. Malkin is a sure fire Superstar while Tavares MIGHT be as good as him one day but chances are he won't be. Worst case scenerio for the Islanders is Tavares is a 100 point Center and Okposo if a top line forward but Malkin still most likely would be the best of the 3.

Personally I am guessing Staal is the odd man out before Malkin or Crosby are even considered. On that note if the Islander end up with Hedman I would offer them Okposo for Staal(I think Staal better but his contract which makes him a UFA in 4 years devalues him)

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03-19-2009, 01:41 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neoen View Post
This brings up a good point about Detroit and the problems they will have. Next year we already know that they will have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Rafalski, and Lidstrom at a cost of about 27.5. Thats for four guys! If you want to resign Hossa, that will likely be at least another 6. So lets so they do not resign Franzen. Thats 33.5 mil for 5 guys, you still have another 15 guys to contract with about 22 million (spec. 54 mil cap)

Well you got Filppula making 3, Cleary making 2, Holmstrom making 2, Kronwall and Stuart both making 3. That leaves you with 9 million of cap space, for 9 more players and 2 more goalies, with 1 of those goalies likely being a better one than osgood, recieving more than 1.5 mil!

You need to go more indepth with these things. Pittsburgh will have a problem, Detroit will have a problem, and with the sweet economy it may hurt Detroit even more if they start having troubles filling the building.
That's the thing. Every contending team is in the same boat, so it's ridiculous for people to almost exclusively be making these sorts of doomsday threads about the Pens.

If you're good, the cap will cause you to make some tough decisions. The only teams that won't have to do any cap maneuvering are the terrible ones.

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Old
03-19-2009, 08:08 AM
  #31
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This thread is very original

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Old
03-19-2009, 08:26 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by neoen View Post
To the note above:
Your telling me that in the finals last year he looked interested? Then wow, I would be scared to see your 'focused' team if you were a coach. He may be a scorer, but at times when the puck is not on the stick, he is lost and not interested. I'll see if I can find a goal the other night when he lost the faceoff, and then just quit. Other team scored seconds after
dude that's 100x more like AO than malkin

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Old
03-19-2009, 09:28 AM
  #33
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If I had Malkin I would only take Ovechkin for him, no joke.

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Old
03-19-2009, 09:30 AM
  #34
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If the Penguins have to make a move in two years to fit the payroll under a contracting salary cap, then they will do so... in two years' time.

Until Summer 2010, Shero doesn't have to do anything so drastic, and maybe not even then.

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Old
03-19-2009, 09:33 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
That's what 5 core players cost these days.

Pittsburgh:

Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury - 26.4, + whatever Gonch re-signs at.

Detroit:

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Rafalski - 18.7, + whoever of Franzen, Hossa, Lidstrom are re-signed.

Washington:

Ovechkin, Green, Nylander - 19.3, + whatever Backstrom and Semin re-sign for.

Boston:

Savard, Bergeron, Chara - 17.25, not considering what Kessel, Krejci, and Thomas re-sign for.

San Jose:

Thornton, Boyle - 13.8 mil, + Setoguchi, Marleau, Nabokov, Clowe...

See, good teams pay their star players. Pittsburgh has their stars locked up, so they look like they're in some sort of dire cap problem to people without context. But if you look at some of the other elite teams, they'll either have to sign their talents and be in a similar position to Pittsburgh, or lose them in FA and feel the repercussions of their losses.


I hope none of them win the cup and then they can realize money doesn't always buy you a championship.

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Old
03-19-2009, 09:43 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
That's what 5 core players cost these days.

Pittsburgh:

Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury - 26.4, + whatever Gonch re-signs at.

Detroit:

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Rafalski - 18.7, + whoever of Franzen, Hossa, Lidstrom are re-signed.

Washington:

Ovechkin, Green, Nylander - 19.3, + whatever Backstrom and Semin re-sign for.

Boston:

Savard, Bergeron, Chara - 17.25, not considering what Kessel, Krejci, and Thomas re-sign for.

San Jose:

Thornton, Boyle - 13.8 mil, + Setoguchi, Marleau, Nabokov, Clowe...

See, good teams pay their star players. Pittsburgh has their stars locked up, so they look like they're in some sort of dire cap problem to people without context. But if you look at some of the other elite teams, they'll either have to sign their talents and be in a similar position to Pittsburgh, or lose them in FA and feel the repercussions of their losses.
Nylander is so bad. Washington will dump him on waivers at some point.

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Old
03-19-2009, 09:54 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by neoen View Post
Going on what I wrote in another post that caused some heat, Pittsburgh WILL HAVE to move 1 of their higher contract guys. Staal or Malkin, Staal would have to go. Malkin or Crosby, Malkin would have to go. Why would I even bring this up? Pittsburgh is going to be running into a pretty big problem with salaries not so much this next season, but the one after for sure! You look at guys like Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Gonchar and Fleury make on a 50 million cap, will take up just over 60% of their space. You can not do that in this era, and someone will have to move. Whine all you want, its gotta happen. If Staal's and Malkin's new contracts took over this season, there is no way they would have been able to get the guys at the deadline. It's more than 11 million of cap added on, and in the future it will be a huge problem if its not looked at.

So...who's moving? I already made a point in another thread that I would move Malkin for the 1st overall pick, plus prospects/young players in a heartbeat. Not only for future salary reasons, but we've seen Malkin's playoff heart last year, and frankly I'd rather have a Canadian that was interested instead.
The best player in the playoffs by far until he had a concussion and tried to play through it? Stupid euro

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Old
03-19-2009, 10:06 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neoen View Post

To the note above:
Your telling me that in the finals last year he looked interested? Then wow, I would be scared to see your 'focused' team if you were a coach. He may be a scorer, but at times when the puck is not on the stick, he is lost and not interested. I'll see if I can find a goal the other night when he lost the faceoff, and then just quit. Other team scored seconds after
How is he such a slouch when he doesn't have the puck? I would love to see how many takeaways he has this season, he's a tremendous backchecker. And if your talking about the Atlanta game the other night, well I was at that game, and I'll take that 5 point quitter on my team anyday.


Last edited by 87: 03-19-2009 at 11:25 AM.
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Old
03-19-2009, 10:09 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by neoen View Post
Going on what I wrote in another post that caused some heat, Pittsburgh WILL HAVE to move 1 of their higher contract guys. Staal or Malkin, Staal would have to go. Malkin or Crosby, Malkin would have to go. Why would I even bring this up? Pittsburgh is going to be running into a pretty big problem with salaries not so much this next season, but the one after for sure! You look at guys like Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Gonchar and Fleury make on a 50 million cap, will take up just over 60% of their space. You can not do that in this era, and someone will have to move. Whine all you want, its gotta happen. If Staal's and Malkin's new contracts took over this season, there is no way they would have been able to get the guys at the deadline. It's more than 11 million of cap added on, and in the future it will be a huge problem if its not looked at.

So...who's moving? I already made a point in another thread that I would move Malkin for the 1st overall pick, plus prospects/young players in a heartbeat. Not only for future salary reasons, but we've seen Malkin's playoff heart last year, and frankly I'd rather have a Canadian that was interested instead.
Total non-Pittsburg fan...I mean I love the team but the Canucks are the ones I cheer for. If Van gets knocked out then I cheer for Pittsburg. I just don't follow the Penguins nearly as close as all of you. So with this in mind....I don't see the problem you see.

If the cap stays the exact same as this season then I don't see any panic moves having to be made. By my count (which could be wrong) after all the UFA's are left unsigned you still need to sign 2 d-men, 1 goalie and 3 forwards. You have, currently, just a little over 10 million left to spend...that leaves approx. 1.6 million per person for a #6 and #7 d-man, a back-up goalie and 3 mid level forwards. More than doable.

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Old
03-19-2009, 10:11 AM
  #40
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You're new here I see.

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Old
03-19-2009, 10:32 AM
  #41
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I can see where the dude is coming from about the cap but all of his comments about Malkin are light years offbase.

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Old
03-19-2009, 12:35 PM
  #42
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Sure, Malkin's contract is going to be 8.7mil instead of 4mil next season but look.

They get rid of:

Guerin -4,5mil
Satan -3mil
Boucher - 2,5mil
Maybe even Gill -2,1mil

They wont have cap problems and if Guerin still has energy they might even resign him.

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:00 PM
  #43
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Only problem they will face is in 2010 when they have to resign Gonchar and Letang.

Until then, the Pens' cap situation is no where near as bad as the Rangers', maybe even the Wings but they are stacked so it's ok for them.

Gomez, Drury, Redden, Rozsival, Lundquist = $32.78 million until 2012 or later (for all 5)

Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Gonchar, Fleury= $31.4. All but Gonchar are signed thru 2013.

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:22 PM
  #44
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Until then, the Pens' cap situation is no where near as bad as the Rangers', maybe even the Wings but they are stacked so it's ok for them.

Gomez, Drury, Redden, Rozsival, Lundquist = $32.78 million until 2012 or later (for all 5)
Zherdev: Should command ~4M on an extension. Maybe the rangers are hoping he gets an offersheet?
Marc Staal and Dan Girardi need raises (probably considerable ones) for '10-'11, when the cap goes down.

something's gotta give

as for the penguins, I think the kunitz-whitney trade addressed a big part of this problem and gives pittsburgh more than enough flexibility down the road. for '10-'11, they have crosby (8.7), malkin (8.7), fleury (5.0), staal (4.0), orpik (3.75), kunitz (3.725), Dupuis (1.4), talbot (1.05), godard (.750), and kennedy (.725).

That adds up to 37.8M in '10-'11. Lets assume a 50M cap for that year. Pittsburgh then has 12.2M to sign 5-6 defencemen, a backup goalie, and 4-5 forwards. Bill thomas will get a very modest raise this year and should be one of those forwards, costing about 600K. Tangradi, Caputi, and CPZ should be able to fill at least 2 more of those spots on rookie contracts. The last spot or two can be filled with cheap depth. The backup goalie should be pretty cheap as well. The big problem for the pens comes on defense, if they have to sign 5 defenceman with a budget of around 8M, things could get very nasty. I'm sure something can be worked out, but after gogs and letang eat up at least 5M, the bottom 3 of that defence is not going to look very good.

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:23 PM
  #45
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What about Philly, Ottawa, and NYR, Cgy, Buffalo.. there will be a lot of teams screwed if the cap goes to 50 mil.

Philly will be at 37 mil for Briere, Richards, Carter, Hartnell, Lupul, Gagne and Timonnen. That doesn't include the 3.5 that Carle will get. If cap is 50 mil they have under 10mil for 14 guys.


Last edited by madpooh: 03-19-2009 at 01:32 PM.
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Old
03-19-2009, 01:30 PM
  #46
Jag68Sid87
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I hope none of them win the cup and then they can realize money doesn't always buy you a championship.
You mean like the '99 Stars?

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:34 PM
  #47
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I know people want to find some way to pry Malkin or Crosby from the Pens, but do you all have to constantly go to such moronic depths to try and convince yourselves that it is possible? The Pens are actually in as good or better shape than most teams with those two contracts. My thanks to There's only one 66 for the following numbers regarding the cap issue for teams next year:

Avalanche: 21.5 million in 4 players.
Blackhawks: 25.5 million in 6 players.
Blues: 21.6 million in 7 players.
Bruins: 26 million in 6 players.
Canes: 27.2 in 8 players.
Canucks: 13 million in 5 players.
Caps: 30 million in 8 players.
Coyotes: 24.4 million in 9 players.
Devils: 34 million in 9 players.
Ducks: 22 million in 6 players.
Flames: 35.8 in 9 players.
Flyers: 42.1 million in 10 players.
Habs: 18 million in 6 players.
Jackets: App. 25 million in 9 players.
Kings: 33.1 million in 11 players.
Leafs: 18.7 million in 5 players.
Lightning: 31.5 million in 8 players.
Oilers: 36.2 million in 10 players.
Panthers: 33.5 in 9 players.
Pens: 37.8 million in 10 players.
Predators: 26.2 million in 7 players.
Rangers: 36.7 million in 8 players.
Red Wings: 34.3 million in 9 players.
Sabres: 32 million in 7 players.
Senators: 30.5 million in 7 players.
Sharks: 29.9 million in 7 players.
Stars: 21.1 million for 4 players (incl. Avery expenses)
Trashers: 14 million in 4 players.
Wild: 27 million in 8 players.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=620606&page=4

If the Pens are in trouble because of a falling cap there will be 90% of the league in that rowboat springing a leak with them. Which argues for the Pens being just fine.

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Old
03-19-2009, 02:22 PM
  #48
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Would Pens still be interested in a Staal for Horton (as centerpieces) trade? I know Panthers fans used to scoff at the deal but over the last few games it's becoming pretty obvious they need a natural center who's worth a damn.

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03-19-2009, 02:27 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
If the Penguins have to make a move in two years to fit the payroll under a contracting salary cap, then they will do so... in two years' time.

Until Summer 2010, Shero doesn't have to do anything so drastic, and maybe not even then.
But if one applies your common sense, there is no thread, there is no melodrama, there are no baseless warnings of imminent danger.

Ignorance is bliss.

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Old
03-19-2009, 02:31 PM
  #50
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Would Pens still be interested in a Staal for Horton (as centerpieces) trade? I know Panthers fans used to scoff at the deal but over the last few games it's becoming pretty obvious they need a natural center who's worth a damn.
Staal's value has gone up quite a bit since Therrien was fired and Staal and the rest of the team has been unleashed. He should top 25 goals this year with a similar number of assists and is very likely to top 30 next year. The addition of Kunitz, Bill Guerin and a power foward top prospect in the minors made wing a less pressing need.

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