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Kovalev on Carbo: we had a tought time following him

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Old
03-19-2009, 11:40 AM
  #76
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The only names I'm seeing as the supposed hypocrits are Kovy and Koivu, does anyone have any idea who else is on this list? I wonder about Higgins since Carbo took the A off his jersey earlier this season.

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03-19-2009, 11:55 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The ATAK line didn't work earlier this year, Plek was searching himself. Splitting that line up doesn't mean alternating every single line, almost every game.
It started with Tanguay/Koivu/Lats. That trio was working well, even Koivu said it. But once Higgins came back from his injury, Lats's PP Ice Time dropped, and 2Games after he was back Higgins took Lats's spot on 1st line even if he wasn't playing better than Gui. It started there.
Then with the injuries and constant line changes, nobody on this team was ever able to find its rhythm except Lang.
But that doesn't make it a valid reason why you start the game with certain lines and 10min in Carbo already shuffled them again.
After all this, you ask some consistency out of your players..

I disagree about the Jack Adams, I couldn't care less if he won it or not to be honest and I put very little importance in that trophy.
Also, give us an average PP last year instead of the best one and we'd probably be in the same position we're in today. The PP was run by Jarvis not Carbo.
I was still scratching my head last year with some of the decisions Carbo made, but in the end we used to win which is the only important thing. That doesn't mean he wasn't taking bad decisions.
See, to me that's a bit unfair. He gets the blame for a team's troubles yet he gets no recognition for the team's success. You're implying that BillyBobJoeBlow could have coached the Habs last year and be just as successful because Jarvis designed and ran a magnificent PP. If his peers and this blood hungry media can recognize his achievements for last year through a trophy nomination then the man deserves some credit.

Which is not to say that he didn't have his shortcomings since I've stated before he did made decisions that made people's head, including mine, scratched. The line juggling may have been excessive but people make it sound like a random tick. I just didn't agree that he's as bad a coach as people make him out to be.

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03-19-2009, 12:03 PM
  #78
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What I appreciate about Kovalev in this interview is that he is honest - he does not hide and clearly expresses his thoughts (not his "feelings" mind you) about Carbonneau.

Also - he talks only about hockey, about hockey plays and hockey decisions. Not about personalities and conflicts and language issues and "having the Habs logo tattooed on his heart" and "working hard" and "leadership" and "giving your 110%".

By talking about hockey he is clearly above 90% of his critics who simply attack the person.

His inteview to the Russian press two years ago was also dead right in analysing the hockey aspects of the Habs - of course it did not work because of "non hockey" issues.

Last year's success was 80% because of Kovalev. Not because of Carbonneau.

I wish he would become a coach someday.

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03-19-2009, 12:06 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MJN79 View Post
Only in Montreal do players say these things in the media about a fired coach. If Kovalev has a tough time following Carbo, imagine the opposite. There are days Kovalev looks like a star and others where he looks like a ghost. I remember games where Kovy did not even take a shot. He is on all the PP's, plays on the PK, whats hard to follow here, put the puck in the net and stop whinning.
I agree, to me, I can't believe Kovalev would come out and say this- creating a huge distraction for the team- when they are struggling to stay in the playoffs as is.

These remarks are not the words of a leader. A leader would never trash a former coach a mere weeks after his dismissal, and while the teams is fighting for its playoffs lives.

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:22 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
I totally agree....Habs from the 70's didn't need a coach to tell them how to hit, pass and score. For the most part, everything Bowman said went in one ear and out the other....they laced up and got the job done.

This "woe is me" crap is pitiful.
You mean the team that was filled with HoFs??..How many of the guys you're talking about have had their jersey retired?..
How many players on our current line up will have their jersey retired??
Comparing the 70's line up to the one we have is quite ridiculous. Not only was it filed with superstars, but it's also 30-40years ago. Times have changed.

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03-19-2009, 01:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
I agree, to me, I can't believe Kovalev would come out and say this- creating a huge distraction for the team- when they are struggling to stay in the playoffs as is.

These remarks are not the words of a leader. A leader would never trash a former coach a mere weeks after his dismissal, and while the teams is fighting for its playoffs lives.
Trash a coach?..man some of you just jump on the first occasion to diss someone.
Kovalev didn't trash Carbo, he said some players had trouble understanding his decisions sometimes. Wooooahh..Call the cops!!!..

He's saying what most of us already knew. We all were scratching our heads time and time again when Carbo took some of his decisions. We're just fans, imagine being a player.

In no way was Kovalev's comments mean or a ''distraction'' as you like to say. Carbo's firing was a distraction. Kovalev just responded to questions and didn't say anything we didn't expect.

What was he supposed to say?..everybody loved Carbo, they all understood him perfectly, they loved his system, they agreed with every single decision, and that's why he got fired.
Get off your high horse, Kovalev said nothing wrong. He simply said the truth and the obvious.

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03-19-2009, 01:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
See, to me that's a bit unfair. He gets the blame for a team's troubles yet he gets no recognition for the team's success. You're implying that BillyBobJoeBlow could have coached the Habs last year and be just as successful because Jarvis designed and ran a magnificent PP. If his peers and this blood hungry media can recognize his achievements for last year through a trophy nomination then the man deserves some credit.

Which is not to say that he didn't have his shortcomings since I've stated before he did made decisions that made people's head, including mine, scratched. The line juggling may have been excessive but people make it sound like a random tick. I just didn't agree that he's as bad a coach as people make him out to be.
Not at all, in the end Carbo is the head coach, so credit goes to him. I just wanted to point out that being nominated for a Jack Adams award doesn't mean much.
In today's NHL, the average coaching job is 2years. So, Jack Adams or not, you'll end up losing your job eventually and chances are more than once.
Heck, you can bring your team 2victories short of winning the Stanley Cup, yet still get fired the next year.

Carbo took some bad decisions that in the end came back to bite him in the ass. What we were going through this year seems very similar to what happened 2years ago. We couldn't get out of our slump 2years ago, and the same was happening now. Add that to the insistence of playing 4lines regularly, putting grinders on PP, Metro on 5-3 in a crucial game trailing by 1, the fact he's able to lose players like Begin/Dandy that are willing to sacrifice themselves 100% for the team, the fact our D looked worse and worse as game went by, and it's not a surprise he got fired.

He's not as bad as some people like to say, I agree, but he took a number of bad decisions.

Like I've said many times, he was also part of the problem. Carbo, the players and Gainey are all to blame for the recent lack of success.
Carbo for his bad decisions.
The players for their lack of effort.
Gainey for thinking we'd be fine without a PP Point shot and for not getting reinforcements, most noticeably at center after Lang went down.

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Old
03-19-2009, 02:26 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
Of course we disagree, most people here agree that Carbo lost the room despite his assurance he thought he still had them. That's how disconnected he was from the team...he didn't even know he lost the team. Saying I offer no content is pretty lame since all you do is repeat blaming Kovy for everything including bad weather.

Concerning the PP: I know you are placing the blame squarely on the players but they are the same players that had the #1 PP of last year. If the PP is struggling tit si the coach that has the responsibility to fix it. How did Carbo do this? He said "I've given up trying and will play lines intact". I don't exactly like my head coach giving up on his job. Playing 4th liners on your PP is something only Carbo does.

Kovy is 100% right that lines should be intact. When all the players are available the lines should in fact remain stable and allow them to develop chemistry. I'm really annoyed by people that place the blame on the failure of a line on one player when Pleks was terrible until he missed 2 games and has been great since then and for AKost being invisible or great depending on the day.

Kovalev started the season ready to go with the same commitment as last season. What hypocrisy do you see that Carbo doesn't see? He said he had no problem at all with Kovalev at the press conference. You just do not want to accept that Carbo is ineffective.

You think Carbo doesn't have a huge ego? Are you serious? That smirk he had on the bench that told the refs they didn't know what they were doing wasn't arrogance? Making lines that made no sense to anybody just to make a point? Saying things to his players through the media because he couldn't talk to them directly?

His ego and inflated opinion of himself will always make it impossible to be effective. He played one way and expects all players to be the same way. Well his job is to use the assets he is provided and manage a room full of egos. He failed at that. When you call the room a garderie you have a super inflated view of your role. Down to earth? Do you know him at all? Unless you know him personally you only see his public face and it is arrogant and condescending.
Carbo is the same guy that led this team to #1 place in the East last year, came second for the Jack Adams.. If you can say that Kovy has been playing close to the way he was last year without laughing, its your prob, personally I thought his vet pesence was bullet for this team 2 years ago, I liked him last year since he was playing with fire and dedication (with something to prove to recall) and this year I feel about the same hate of 2 years ago.. Ask people about Kovalev's play this year, you will find 50% people defending him and minimizing how negative his impact is on the team while the other half will share about the same point of view as mine..

Both Carbo and Gainey couldnt stand his play anymore, does it mean both are in the left field and poor hockey men? Its well knew in the league that this guy just cant play within a system.. Gainey stated 2 days ago that Kovy will have to stop making his little fancy moves and play better with his teammates.. Something Im saying word per word since the begin of the season.. He plays alone, doesnt work hard enough and when he works hard he doesnt work well.. Ive been saying this for a long time and Gainey just said about the same regarding our russian troublemaker..

You say I blame Kovy and only Kovy for this team failure but its not true, Im just saying he is a big part of the prob..

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03-19-2009, 03:11 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Carbo is the same guy that led this team to #1 place in the East last year, came second for the Jack Adams.. If you can say that Kovy has been playing close to the way he was last year without laughing, its your prob, personally I thought his vet pesence was bullet for this team 2 years ago, I liked him last year since he was playing with fire and dedication (with something to prove to recall) and this year I feel about the same hate of 2 years ago.. Ask people about Kovalev's play this year, you will find 50% people defending him and minimizing how negative his impact is on the team while the other half will share about the same point of view as mine..

Both Carbo and Gainey couldnt stand his play anymore, does it mean both are in the left field and poor hockey men? Its well knew in the league that this guy just cant play within a system.. Gainey stated 2 days ago that Kovy will have to stop making his little fancy moves and play better with his teammates.. Something Im saying word per word since the begin of the season.. He plays alone, doesnt work hard enough and when he works hard he doesnt work well.. Ive been saying this for a long time and Gainey just said about the same regarding our russian troublemaker..

You say I blame Kovy and only Kovy for this team failure but its not true, Im just saying he is a big part of the prob..
As you can see, the 50% that keep insisting Kovalev is playing poorly also like to keep referring to the season he's had last year.

Last season was his 2nd best one in his career point wise. Expecting him to perform as well as last year considering he's 36 is quite ridiculous.

His career PT/GP ratio is 0.8. This season, it's 0.7. Again, considering his age, it's normal to see a drop in production.
So, personally, no I'm not that disappointed in Kovalev nor do I think he's a BIG part of the problem.

I think guys like Higgins/A.Kost/S.Kost/Plek/Komi should get blamed before Kovalev and Koivu. Those guys are the future of our team, they're young and should have taken the opportunity to step up when expected too. Every single one of them has underperformed this year instead of growing.
Lats can also be blamed but in his fairness, I think he wasn't used properly. Even Tanguay, 29Pts/39GP was not what we were hoping for, granted he got injured but his production is still inferior to what we had hoped.

Am I gonna blame an aging Kovalev for not being able to carry a team at 36?..No, that would be stupid.
Am I going to blame an injury prone captain that went through cancer and clearly doesn't have as much energy?..No.

I'll blame Gainey for not bringing him the proper players to help those 2 aging veterans before pointing the fingers towards them. Find me one other team in the league that expect 35 and 36 year old players to carry them to the SCF. I'll save you the trouble by saying you won't find any.

I think people blame Kovalev and Koivu a lot but that's because they expect them to carry our team. Something they just can't do.

Now, if Koivu/Kovalev are bad seeds, that's a different question. But from what Carbo said, Kovalev isn't one. Maybe Koivu, but I think this all comes back down to him not filing the correct role. He should have a less important role, the one of a 3rd line center not 1st one.

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03-19-2009, 03:28 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You mean the team that was filled with HoFs??..How many of the guys you're talking about have had their jersey retired?..
How many players on our current line up will have their jersey retired??
Comparing the 70's line up to the one we have is quite ridiculous. Not only was it filed with superstars, but it's also 30-40years ago. Times have changed.
Point was.....they're professionals. They've been skating, shooting, hitting, scoring, passing all their lives. At this level....ESPECIALLY, all they should need is pride, character and desire to accomplish what is expected of them.

What's ridiculous, is that that was so difficult for you to comprehend.

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03-19-2009, 03:33 PM
  #86
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I find it funny when the people compare the Kovalev of this season with last season. They are talking like kovalev never dekes 2-3 guys last season or was playing a dump and chase style. The style he is playing this year is exactly the same as last year.

Kovalev did not do anything on his own last year he has two good linemates and there was chemistry and magic. Same can not be said this year for some reason.

But the main difference is the powerplay. If kovalev and the team has the same success on the powerplay as last year, none of this would happen. No koivu-kovalev bashing. Carbo would still be coaching the habs.

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Old
03-19-2009, 03:47 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Point was.....they're professionals. They've been skating, shooting, hitting, scoring, passing all their lives. At this level....ESPECIALLY, all they should need is pride, character and desire to accomplish what is expected of them.

What's ridiculous, is that that was so difficult for you to comprehend.
What's ridiculous is that you think all they need to succeed is pride, character and desire.
Let's forget about hard work, let's forget that this is a TEAM sport and you need 20ish guys headed in the same direction, let's forget that they need a system that fits them best, let's forget that they need talent/skill, let's forget that they need the motivation to go out with a mission every night, on top of other things..

Ya, because they played hockey their whole life, all that's needed is character and pride.

Did you ever play in a competitive TEAM sport?..There's a reason why it's called a TEAM. You clearly missed that part.

You talk about desire. In a team, there's a lot of things that can influence that desire. It doesn't just come from within each individual.

All is relative buddy. It's not because they've been doing this all their life that it's any easier. They're playing versus a bunch of players that have been doing it all their lives as well, so it doesn't make it any easier.

You can be working at this job for 20years, it doesn't mean it'll get easier as days/months/years go by. It might even get harder as some people come in younger, more prepared, better schooled, etc...
Same can apply to hockey. Guys come in stronger, better trained, faster, etc..


Last edited by Kriss E: 03-19-2009 at 03:54 PM.
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03-19-2009, 03:50 PM
  #88
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What I appreciate about Kovalev in this interview is that he is honest - he does not hide and clearly expresses his thoughts (not his "feelings" mind you) about Carbonneau.

Also - he talks only about hockey, about hockey plays and hockey decisions. Not about personalities and conflicts and language issues and "having the Habs logo tattooed on his heart" and "working hard" and "leadership" and "giving your 110%".

By talking about hockey he is clearly above 90% of his critics who simply attack the person.

His inteview to the Russian press two years ago was also dead right in analysing the hockey aspects of the Habs - of course it did not work because of "non hockey" issues.

Last year's success was 80% because of Kovalev. Not because of Carbonneau.

I wish he would become a coach someday.
I totaly agree with everything you say. His interviews are really refreshing and I respect that

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03-19-2009, 05:41 PM
  #89
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See, to me that's a bit unfair. He gets the blame for a team's troubles yet he gets no recognition for the team's success.
I'll make this simple, as simple as I can. Last season they won IN SPITE of Carbonneau.

The decisions he made have been covered ad nauseum but suffice it to say that fans everywhere have been raging over them. As have members of the media as have his own players. Normally classy players have consistantly blasted him on some of his mind numbing moves.

If you want to defend some of his ridiculous decisions like playing musical chairs with the lines, or putting out 4th liners with 30 seconds to go while a goal down, or benching veterans who are performing well without a word of explanation to them, that's fine.

But embracing the record last season as evidence that he's a good coach simply is not going to fly.

The fact is Carbonneau was making boneheaded decisions last season too, and everyone here was calling him on it. The response generally was "we're winning" and that's appropriate. When you're winning you don't break your back trying to fix problems. But we're not winning anymore, and that makes people look harder for the reasons.

Carbonneau does NOT deserve all of the blame for this season's performance. The fact is we're playing poorly this season because Gainey allowed our point man Streit to leave for free agency (for good reason, Streits demands were substantially high) and didn't replace him until he picked up Schneider recently. Also Kovalev is having a down year, that happens. Injuries also hurt us. The biggest reason is goaltending.

I'll tell you something though, the goaltending issue (the biggest reason we're losing) is squarely on Carbonneau's shoulder. He's the one who decided to keep Price out there to be scored on for 5 or 6 and even 7 goals per night, completely shattering his confidence. I called it back then, saying Carbonneau was going to completely destroy Price if he kept doing that.

The fact is Carboneau just isn't a very good coach. When the team is winning it's easy to overlook it. When the team hits the skids his weaknesses become exposed and everyone jumps on them. Fair? Maybe not, but the criticisms are warranted. The fact is that a better coach would probably have given us a better season this year. Price may not have collapsed as he had if the coach had protected him better. Players like Kovalev may have played better this season if the coach communicated better with his players or allowed them time to gel with new linemates. But Carbonneau is not a better coach.

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03-19-2009, 05:56 PM
  #90
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I liked the way Kovalev gave his opinion. Completely hockey based, no attacks ad hominem.

There is nothing to see here. No controversy, no "wanting the coach's head". Just one hell of a confused Russian.

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03-19-2009, 07:56 PM
  #91
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I am sure this has been brought up before, but does anyone else think that the Habs issues could be steroid related?

Last year we had a lot of players really excel and we came through with a very good season. Perhaps a bunch of our players were busted by either the NHL or The Canadiens and had to stop using at the beginning of the season. So they still had the boost for the first part of the season and then tailed off. There are connections to drug dealers.......

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03-19-2009, 08:09 PM
  #92
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I am sure this has been brought up before, but does anyone else think that the Habs issues could be steroid related?

Last year we had a lot of players really excel and we came through with a very good season. Perhaps a bunch of our players were busted by either the NHL or The Canadiens and had to stop using at the beginning of the season. So they still had the boost for the first part of the season and then tailed off. There are connections to drug dealers.......
you don't need a criminal to get yourself steroids BTW



and I have a tough time following why Kovalev is still on this team

how useless he is right now

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03-19-2009, 08:14 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I'll tell you something though, the goaltending issue (the biggest reason we're losing) is squarely on Carbonneau's shoulder. He's the one who decided to keep Price out there to be scored on for 5 or 6 and even 7 goals per night, completely shattering his confidence. I called it back then, saying Carbonneau was going to completely destroy Price if he kept doing that.
You really think Carbonneau is the reason Price sucks so bad right now? Sorry, but you're a very naive person. Price ain't perfect, what's happening right now is his own fault and it's a shame both for us and him because he's got a lot of talent.

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03-19-2009, 09:54 PM
  #94
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Personally, I know I yelled at the TV a few times this year and said "what the eff is Carbo doing? FML!"
I've yelled every game wondering what Kovalev was doing (or not doing). What's your point?

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Originally Posted by MJN79 View Post
Only in Montreal do players say these things in the media about a fired coach. If Kovalev has a tough time following Carbo, imagine the opposite. There are days Kovalev looks like a star and others where he looks like a ghost. I remember games where Kovy did not even take a shot. He is on all the PP's, plays on the PK, whats hard to follow here, put the puck in the net and stop whinning.
QFT. He certainly can't blame Carbo for his ice time so he's looking for something else.

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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
I totally agree....Habs from the 70's didn't need a coach to tell them how to hit, pass and score. For the most part, everything Bowman said went in one ear and out the other....they laced up and got the job done.

This "woe is me" crap is pitiful.
Ah, words of wisdom! Music to my ears. At least we remember what a true star player looks like!

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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
I agree, to me, I can't believe Kovalev would come out and say this- creating a huge distraction for the team- when they are struggling to stay in the playoffs as is.

These remarks are not the words of a leader. A leader would never trash a former coach a mere weeks after his dismissal, and while the teams is fighting for its playoffs lives.
Kovalev is doing that because he's a little man. He is seeing his popularity, the fan support going down as the season goes by and he's simply trying to put down others in a lame attempt to raise himself. FAIL!

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Originally Posted by Kareem View Post
You really think Carbonneau is the reason Price sucks so bad right now? Sorry, but you're a very naive person. Price ain't perfect, what's happening right now is his own fault and it's a shame both for us and him because he's got a lot of talent.
One word: MELANSON!

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