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Price performance = Second year syndrom?

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Old
03-20-2009, 01:29 AM
  #26
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[QUOTE=Fish on The Sand;18620305]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
The numbers speak for themselves. Since the All-Star Break:



Price was terrible in february, however since he came back after Halak's flu, his stats are incredible. Before today he had a .936 save% with 2.13 gaa in his last 5 starts. The fact the team only took 6 of 10 points in that span is not on Price. That is why price is getting the start on Saturday. Good record against the Leafs and has been on fire lately.
Price needs to EARN his spot! As of late he has not.

Plus, I would not play Price in Montreal on Saturday against the Leafs because if he starts sucking again, the fans will be booing him profusely and that's the last thing his confidence needs right now. Go with Halak, he's been sensational as of late despite the rest of the teams woes.

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03-20-2009, 01:29 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
You really think that? Come back down to earth?

Halak, I admit, has terrible rebound control on most nights. However, it's how he's ALWAYS played.. and it's ALWAYS worked for him.

Maybe if Price went back to what worked for him, he'd be a better goalie again. I can't even begin to talk about how often the guy is on his knees anymore.
You make it sound as if Halak is doing something good by letting these rebounds go, well it's not. It's a weakness.

You make a good point about Price though, I agree he needs to go back to the basics.

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03-20-2009, 01:34 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
this is not true. Need a rmeind anybody about the New Jersey fisco? nothing Price has given up were that weak.
Perhaps you didn't watch overtime against the Islanders, the shootout against the Rangers, or the fourth goal tonight?

Every goalie gives up bad goals -- it happens -- but Halak wins more often, stops a higher percentage of his shots, gives up fewer soft goals, and doesn't look like he's depressed every time the puck finds the back of the net.

That goal against New Jersey SUCKED, but it's simply not possible to use that one shot to say that Price has been the better goalie.

It's also interesting to note that Halak now has better career numbers than Price does, despite rarely getting the chance to string starts together and get some momentum going.

Price: 86 GP, 44-26-11 (0.543), 2.76 GAA, 0.912 SV%
Halak: 52 GP, 28-19-2 (0.571), 2.80 GAA, 0.914 SV%

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Old
03-20-2009, 01:39 AM
  #29
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We got lucky last year, everyone was behind in developing and we were on top. Now everyone has started to develop and we are behind the pack realizing...we suck.

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Old
03-20-2009, 01:56 AM
  #30
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In many cases the so-called sophomore slump is a result of the league getting to know players. People watch film and figure out how best to defend against or attack a player.

This is evident in Vancouver where Edler, after a spectacular first year, has struggled, at times, this year. Teams put him in situations where he less effective and attack his weaknesses.

Good players overcome these problems and get stronger as they learn to adjust. However, this adjustment might take awhile. I think you can say this about several of the Habs - especially Price.

Teams know the holes in Price's game- some of which are pretty obvious - and Price now has to work hard to improve.

I think teams are now starting to get a book on Mason in Columbus and you will probably see him have a tougher time next year. Becoming something more than a one or two year wonder is tough in the NHL - especially for goalies.

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Old
03-20-2009, 02:09 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
Perhaps you didn't watch overtime against the Islanders, the shootout against the Rangers, or the fourth goal tonight?

Every goalie gives up bad goals -- it happens -- but Halak wins more often, stops a higher percentage of his shots, gives up fewer soft goals, and doesn't look like he's depressed every time the puck finds the back of the net.

That goal against New Jersey SUCKED, but it's simply not possible to use that one shot to say that Price has been the better goalie.

It's also interesting to note that Halak now has better career numbers than Price does, despite rarely getting the chance to string starts together and get some momentum going.

Price: 86 GP, 44-26-11 (0.543), 2.76 GAA, 0.912 SV%
Halak: 52 GP, 28-19-2 (0.571), 2.80 GAA, 0.914 SV%
you're winning % totals are a little flawed. Price actually earns points at a higher rate than Halak does. Over 82 games Price will earn 100 points 97 points. Not a huge difference, but Price does get betetr results in the standings. It is also worth noting that price plays a more benneficial style for the playoffs. Halak's poor rebound control would be magnified come playoff time when we are consistently playing better teams down low who will capitalize on those opportunities.

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03-20-2009, 02:19 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
you're winning % totals are a little flawed. Price actually earns points at a higher rate than Halak does. Over 82 games Price will earn 100 points 97 points. Not a huge difference, but Price does get betetr results in the standings. It is also worth noting that price plays a more benneficial style for the playoffs. Halak's poor rebound control would be magnified come playoff time when we are consistently playing better teams down low who will capitalize on those opportunities.
That's fair, I just counted OT losses as losses.

As for a more beneficial style? I don't buy it. Halak gives up more rebounds than Price because he stands up more often and kicks out more pucks whereas when Price makes a save it usually hits him in the chest. We've saw Carey in the playoffs last year though and the results were not pretty. Yeah, he had a couple of great games, particularly game 7 against Boston, but he was also TERRIBLE in 5 and 6 vs. Boston and most of them against Philadelphia.

Halak has posted great numbers everywhere he's played, has much better numbers than Price this season, and is currently the hotter goalie. I really don't know how anyone can think otherwise.

I'm not suggesting to make Halak the unconditional starter for the rest of the year and potentially the playoffs, but I think he's earned the right to play in the next few games and see where that leads us. Price will definitely get another chance, but right now he's not the better goalie and he hasn't been for awhile.

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Old
03-20-2009, 02:31 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Price was outstanding 4 game sin a row, not a words was spoken. Slips up and the knives are out. Gotta love Montreal.
Outstanding?..No, he wasn't.

Halak was outstanding when he won 4 in a row while we kept giving up 40+shots. He single-handedly won those game and that's why he was a star in all of them.

Price although was good, like vs NYR, he couldn't win those games, i.e horrible Shootout.

If Halak hadn't gotten sick, we would have kept him in and maybe Carbo wouldn't even have gotten fired if he continued making miracles.

Right now, Price had a bad night when we needed him most. Halak looked good when he came in. We should definitely give him the net vs Toronto, and then take it from there. If he plays great, we stick with him and then re-evaluate after his next game again, and so on..

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Old
03-20-2009, 03:14 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
That's fair, I just counted OT losses as losses.

As for a more beneficial style? I don't buy it. Halak gives up more rebounds than Price because he stands up more often and kicks out more pucks whereas when Price makes a save it usually hits him in the chest. We've saw Carey in the playoffs last year though and the results were not pretty. Yeah, he had a couple of great games, particularly game 7 against Boston, but he was also TERRIBLE in 5 and 6 vs. Boston and most of them against Philadelphia.

Halak has posted great numbers everywhere he's played, has much better numbers than Price this season, and is currently the hotter goalie. I really don't know how anyone can think otherwise.

I'm not suggesting to make Halak the unconditional starter for the rest of the year and potentially the playoffs, but I think he's earned the right to play in the next few games and see where that leads us. Price will definitely get another chance, but right now he's not the better goalie and he hasn't been for awhile.
To me it doesn't matter why the rebounds are generated, it matters that they are. Halak's poor rebound control will hurt the team eventually and right now Price is simply playing too good to risk that with Halak.

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Old
03-20-2009, 03:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by DaHabMan View Post
people need to look at the defense for christ sake and stop blaming the ******* goalie. If halak were in net we probably still would have lost or if wed have won, he would have had stood on his head to do it. 39 shots against, a couple breakaways, many many chances from the slot, other team cycling at will, i mean we are getting dominated and once the other team gets chance after chance after chance, there bound to start going in. There is no defensive system or it is faulty. We need a defense coach and even at that its still not gonna help. Your goalie isnt suppose to stand on his head EVERY game but thats what its come to now in order for us to win. If our goalie is only great than too bad we lose.
Our Defence was f-ing pathetic tonight. Guys are allowed to stand in front of the net and in the slot with noone on them all night.... Noone ties up their stick... give Jason Spezza tons of room... nobody takes daniel alfreddson on the pad save halak made immediately upon entering the game... noone covers foligno on the PP at the start of the game... again noone clears the front of the net in on the goal halak let in... The only goal that was really bad on Carey tonight was the Ruutu one... and even then Brisebois and Hamrlik both got embarassed on that one too.

Our D sucks

Bench Breezer... You've had your 1000 games now its time to go coach.

Seriously Breezer and Schneider both suck... they are softer than my pillow. We can't have both in the lineup. You can't have either playing big minutes 5 on 5 and you can't protect them both if they both play. Schneider brings more to the PP... Bench Breezer and play The Rhino or EL Dandy on D.


This isn't to absolve Price.... Halak was better tonight and should start Saturday... But the key to fixing this mess is not the goalies, its the defence who are f-ing disgusting.

When was the last time we won a game where our goalie wasn't one of the three stars?? How bout not giving up 40 shots every night??

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Old
03-20-2009, 03:19 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
To me it doesn't matter why the rebounds are generated, it matters that they are. Halak's poor rebound control will hurt the team eventually and right now Price is simply playing too good to risk that with Halak.
Dominic Hasek had probably the worst rebound control in the league. But I bet you'd take him over a number of goalies while in his prime.

Even if Halak has poor rebound control, if he gets us the W in the end, that's all that matters at this point.

I don't care if Carey can continuously look better than Halak, if in the end Price loses while Jaro wins, then the choice is simple.

We need every pt we can get at this point, so right now, we should go with Halak.

This discussion is very similar to the one 2years ago of Huet or Halak for the last game. I'm sure Halak is dying to prove he can play just as well as Carey and lead us to POs.
He's one of the only players on the Habs team that seems focused and on a mission, we should definitely take advantage of that.

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03-20-2009, 03:42 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Dominic Hasek had probably the worst rebound control in the league. But I bet you'd take him over a number of goalies while in his prime.

Even if Halak has poor rebound control, if he gets us the W in the end, that's all that matters at this point.

I don't care if Carey can continuously look better than Halak, if in the end Price loses while Jaro wins, then the choice is simple.

We need every pt we can get at this point, so right now, we should go with Halak.

This discussion is very similar to the one 2years ago of Huet or Halak for the last game. I'm sure Halak is dying to prove he can play just as well as Carey and lead us to POs.
He's one of the only players on the Habs team that seems focused and on a mission, we should definitely take advantage of that.
Hasek is a freak of nature though. He is not really a good example. If it were possible to replicate his success goaltenders would be taught to play like he did. My reasoning for starting Price is that I think we are mor elikely to win a cup with Price than Halak due to their stylistic differences, and Price's play of late has justified half of that hypothesis. Price has not gotten the wins because of a total let down in offence. Even while Halak was winning games he was getting good goal support. Our offence may have had problems with consistency, but it buried the chances it got. With price he is being asked to hold the opposition to 1 goal or even less and that isn't going to get many w's. There has been nothing wrong with Halak's play of late, he has obviously had success but I really think that behind Price this team is really ready to do something special.

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03-20-2009, 04:42 AM
  #38
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second year syndrome? doubtful

down syndrome? quite probable


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03-20-2009, 06:31 AM
  #39
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Carey Price got a 9C rating by HF... should be 9D

His real rating should be 9D

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/carey_price

C - May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings - has shown some flashes, but may ultimately not have what it takes to reach his potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 80 percent for depth chart purposes to show the uncertainty of a player reaching his potential.

D - Unlikely to reach potential, could drop 3 ratings - a player who has a chance to reach his potential but is unlikely to do so. The potential rating is multiplied by 70 percent for depth chart purposes, indicating that the player's potential is extremely fluid.


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Old
03-20-2009, 06:46 AM
  #40
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Price can't take the heat, he's making BG look pitiful.
Price=Theodore

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Old
03-20-2009, 06:47 AM
  #41
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Can't you post in the other stupid Carey Price thread? It's a stupid post so it would fit well out there...he's only 21!!!

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03-20-2009, 07:03 AM
  #42
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You're a model fan, thread starter.

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Old
03-20-2009, 07:03 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Can't you post in the other stupid Carey Price thread? It's a stupid post so it would fit well out there...he's only 21!!!
So is Steve Mason, Drafted 69th overall, that ''He's only 21'' excuse is getting old REALLY old

We gave him the freaking team for christ sake and he keeps on crying and sucking obviously not doing crap to be better

Makes me wonder what Halak would be like if we would have game him the icetime of Price, a winner vs a whiner thats our goalie situation right now.

EDIT : Plus the fact that when you tell someone that you fully trust him and show him that trust by trading your #1 veteran goalie there should be a boost of confidence, im sure Halak would be a top goalie if he could have the same trust we gave Price

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03-20-2009, 07:22 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
His real rating should be 9D

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/carey_price

C - May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings - has shown some flashes, but may ultimately not have what it takes to reach his potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 80 percent for depth chart purposes to show the uncertainty of a player reaching his potential.

D - Unlikely to reach potential, could drop 3 ratings - a player who has a chance to reach his potential but is unlikely to do so. The potential rating is multiplied by 70 percent for depth chart purposes, indicating that the player's potential is extremely fluid.
ReVueF Rating - 1F


You're whacked, really, you are.

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Old
03-20-2009, 07:25 AM
  #45
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Price can't take the heat, he's making BG look pitiful.
Price=Theodore
No way in hell.

Price is not equal to a Hart winner, it's not even close.


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Old
03-20-2009, 07:26 AM
  #46
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So is Steve Mason, Drafted 69th overall, that ''He's only 21'' excuse is getting old REALLY old

We gave him the freaking team for christ sake and he keeps on crying and sucking obviously not doing crap to be better

Makes me wonder what Halak would be like if we would have game him the icetime of Price, a winner vs a whiner thats our goalie situation right now.

EDIT : Plus the fact that when you tell someone that you fully trust him and show him that trust by trading your #1 veteran goalie there should be a boost of confidence, im sure Halak would be a top goalie if he could have the same trust we gave Price
The Mason argument is also getting old. He's a rookie who is performing well. That does not mean that he'll be like that next year and the other seasons. He might, but many second year players have a hard time keeping it up, and that's a fact. Price is in his second year, and he's inconsistant...and yeah, he's young. I don't get why you think this argument is getting old because it's a fact that players aren't at their best in their second year. It takes time to make a good player become great. Simple, no?

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03-20-2009, 07:31 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
The Mason argument is also getting old. He's a rookie who is performing well. That does not mean that he'll be like that next year and the other seasons. He might, but many second year players have a hard time keeping it up, and that's a fact. Price is in his second year, and he's inconsistant...and yeah, he's young. I don't get why you think this argument is getting old because it's a fact that players aren't at their best in their second year. It takes time to make a good player become great. Simple, no?
Mason is still having a much better season than Price was last year with a much weaker team that are about to make the playoffs for their first time in franchise history

Calder anyone?

CJB =
12.6% on the PP
2.72 GPG

Habs last year =

24.1% PP
3.13 GPG

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03-20-2009, 07:41 AM
  #48
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The fans of the Montreal Canadiens don't allow players to have sophomore slumps. Those same people who were chanting Carey's name last year are now calling him a bust. The knee jerk fans are the most pathetic breed there is and there are PLENTY of them on this site. They love you one minute and want you out of town the next.

I think everything last year came to easy to Price and he never really faced any adversity until the second round when he struggled. Of course with this team people aren't able to allow a young player to develop. Every young player goes through growing pains (few exceptions) but fans of this team are too stupid to understand this. I've actually seen people say the Habs should trade Price which is mind boggling.

Yes he's struggled this year and I think a lot of his problems has come from immaturity but that will come with age and experience. The kid has all the talent in the world and for people to deny that is stupid.

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03-20-2009, 07:41 AM
  #49
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Mason is still having a much better season than Price was last year with a much weaker team that are about to make the playoffs for their first time in franchise history

Calder anyone?

CJB =
12.6% on the PP
2.72 GPG

Habs last year =

24.1% PP
3.13 GPG
So what? Maybe Mason will be the best goaltender between the two...or maybe Price will be. Mason is a front runner for the Calder, and Price rookie year was last year. Point is, it doesn't matter! We have Price, a talented goaltender with star potential in our system who's having a hard time, and who's still learning because he's 21! We have to give him a chance! Price has shown what he can do at the NHL level, and if he can come back to his rookie form, we have a gem. Did you not see that?

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03-20-2009, 07:48 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
The fans of the Montreal Canadiens don't allow players to have sophomore slumps. Those same people who were chanting Carey's name last year are now calling him a bust. The knee jerk fans are the most pathetic breed there is and there are PLENTY of them on this site. They love you one minute and want you out of town the next.

I think everything last year came to easy to Price and he never really faced any adversity until the second round when he struggled. Of course with this team people aren't able to allow a young player to develop. Every young player goes through growing pains (few exceptions) but fans of this team are too stupid to understand this. I've actually seen people say the Habs should trade Price which is mind boggling.

Yes he's struggled this year and I think a lot of his problems has come from immaturity but that will come with age and experience. The kid has all the talent in the world and for people to deny that is stupid.
Exactly... Luongo was traded from the Isles to Florida because he was having growing pains.... Pittsburgh went through growing pains with Fleury.... Dipietro took a few years before he became good for the isles (is he injury prone? Yes... but when he's healthy he's good).

Heck people even forget that we had our own growing pains with Patrick Roy. In 1987 and 1988 he struggled. He was not the same goalie he was in the 1986 playoffs.

This is not to compare Price to Roy we've had enough of that last year... but this is to say that people need to relax on calling him a bust.

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