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Old
03-20-2009, 02:38 PM
  #101
Vitto79
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all I know is on this day March 20th 2009 I want Antropov signed...........I think all the RFA's are no brainers (Dubi,Zherdev, Callahan,Sjostrom.

Yes Betts and Orr would be real nice to have back but it has to be at say 1.5 combined or the cap will be real tight

I think they lose Rozy for picks at the draft maybe taking a Dman back that makes say 2-3 million..........Van Ryn from TO for example.......then use the 2-3 saved on bringing Mara back

I like Morris I just don't think they have the space but heck Sather did get Antropov, Avery, Morris under the cap by the deadline........sneaky sneaky

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03-20-2009, 05:31 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You didn't even know Staal was signed through next season, so I don't think your opinions are as accurate as you believe.

Have you done any research regarding how the RSL is doing right now? I can assure, after the incident(s) that happened this past year, players won't be frolicking over for a slight pay raise.

Additionally, Zherdev is in no position to demand anything dramatically over 3M, despite the point-total of his overpaid teammates.

When Zherdev can play consistently in this league for a decade, and get his name engraved on the Cup, then he and his agent will have a little more leverage.

Did Zack Parise, who averages more goals, assists, and ice-time per game than Nik, demand a ludicrous contract? Negatory. He didn't.

What about Cammalerri? Why did he re-sign for under 4M as a RFA (numerous times too) when he clearly outscored Zherdev? Or use the RSL as a crutch to bolster his contract?

It's called leverage. Players do not have as much leverage as you think. The RSL is struggling, and there is no reason to believe Zherdev will migrate there for an extra Mil.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think you have the slightest idea what you're talking about. We can still be friends though
Yeah I made a MISTAKE there, you know we are all prone to those once in a while. I just get mad that everyone seems to think these players are all going to take the Mara discount to play for the Rangers. Zherdev is one of our leading scorers on a team that didn't score much at all, he is going to want a raise.

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Old
03-20-2009, 05:32 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Yeah I made a MISTAKE there, you know we are all prone to those once in a while. I just get mad that everyone seems to think these players are all going to take the Mara discount to play for the Rangers. Zherdev is one of our leading scorers on a team that didn't score much at all, he is going to want a raise.
speak for yourself.


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Old
03-20-2009, 05:49 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Before using imperatives, I suggest you check the CBA document. There is no proportional increase/decrease in it. Now this:
Whether you use 2nd or 3rd meaning, it just suggest connection or correlation. Therefore it is not an objective process. If so it doesn't have to be re-negotiated, just agreed upon. if owners decide not to drop the cap it will be still within CBA.

The biggest factor in revenue decrease is not so much the state of finance of the spectators (AKA "Economy"), but course of $CAN. It dropped to .80US$ which is 20% to what it was last year. That could be biggest revenue loss factor. Since 20% of NHL teams operate in Canada that is 4% loss right there. However, if price of oil moves up, so will $CAN. No one knows where oil is heading.
It is known fact that during the recession the entertainment industry is doing well. That is because people want to get away w/o going places physically. Hockey is entertainment that is cheaper than travel. The league could be doing okay therefore or even better than ever.
Go read page 199 of the CBA and get back to me. Here's a link for your convenience:

http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

Every year it's TIED to HRR (or "Hockey Related Revenues"). If HRR goes up, the cap goes up. If HRR goes down, the cap goes down. (If you need help with the concept of "defined terms" in a legal contract, let me know.)

And to be clear, by TIED, I mean it's "established in relationship" according to the 2nd meaning in the unattributed definition in your post. It's a direct contractual relationship formalized according to the legal document. It cannot be arbitrarily changed without amending the contract itself.

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Old
03-20-2009, 05:55 PM
  #105
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The cap is decided in relation to the previous years HRR.

If the owners and the PA decides on something else, there is of course no problem what so ever with that. The CBA is a contract between two sides, nothing else.

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03-20-2009, 05:57 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
The cap is decided in relation to the previous years HRR.

If the owners and the PA decides on something else, there is of course no problem what so ever with that. The CBA is a contract between two sides, nothing else.
And therefore must be formally negotiated and amended. If you think that is an easy thing, you have no clue about the American legal system.

EDIT: To clarify, Ola, if everyone agreed and had the same motivation, amending it would be a matter of paying the lawyers fees and getting the details ironed out (which would cost a mint and involve several months of negotiation). BUT, not everyone has the same motivation. If teams like the Rangers and the Wings had their way there would be no cap to begin with. However, teams like the Coyotes are already up against the wall under the current Cap. And you think that they'll agree to an increase if they get a reprieve due to the economy?!?!?! Not bloody likely, my friend.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 03-20-2009 at 06:02 PM.
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Old
03-20-2009, 10:46 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
I want to rip my hair out with how many people say this. Why on earth would you trade Rozi and keep Redden? Why????????????????

Rozi is cheaper AND better!!!
because Roszival is a trade-able player, Redden is not. Rozi is hardly tradable, we'll probably have to lose on a deal to get rid of him. He's making top pairing defenseman money and he's more of a 2nd pairing d-man IMO.

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Old
03-20-2009, 10:50 PM
  #108
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Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Zherdev is a RESTRICTED free agent?

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Old
03-21-2009, 11:22 AM
  #109
94now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post

Every year it's TIED to HRR (or "Hockey Related Revenues"). If HRR goes up, the cap goes up. If HRR goes down, the cap goes down. (If you need help with the concept of "defined terms" in a legal contract, let me know.)
It is variable fraction of HRR. No straight proportion. That means it is more complicated than you say.
If league is to lower the cap to unacceptable level I'm sure all the numbers will be carefully examined by PA and their lawyers. No one is going examine an exceptable cap. If league declares cap unchanged it should be OK with players and that will be it.. Verification of HHR is a gruesome and expensive process.

For example, if new cap is, say 54.4 million by complicated formula of CBA, but NHL says that they keep it unchanged, no one would challenge the number.


Last edited by 94now: 03-21-2009 at 12:00 PM.
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Old
03-21-2009, 12:28 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
And therefore must be formally negotiated and amended. If you think that is an easy thing, you have no clue about the American legal system.

EDIT: To clarify, Ola, if everyone agreed and had the same motivation, amending it would be a matter of paying the lawyers fees and getting the details ironed out (which would cost a mint and involve several months of negotiation). BUT, not everyone has the same motivation. If teams like the Rangers and the Wings had their way there would be no cap to begin with. However, teams like the Coyotes are already up against the wall under the current Cap. And you think that they'll agree to an increase if they get a reprieve due to the economy?!?!?! Not bloody likely, my friend.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to get in the middle of something.

Just pointing out what I wrote.

And, if lets say HRR were to fall 50% -- just for example -- nobody would benefit from the cap gooing down 50%. The results would just be a bunch of stars in the AHL. It would become a circus. The poor teams who can't afford big contracts in the minors would have to trade them to teams who do, probably along with picks et c.

So if that extreme, unlikely situation, would happend I am 100% sure that something else would be worked out. The NHLPA have nothing to gain either in having a bunch of big stars in the AHL riding the buss. The players whos contracts were up would have been screwed royally because nobody would have money.

But the HRR won't fall 50%. If it falls 20%, I really don't know what would happend. But I don't think its extremely unlikely that the PA and NHL worked some middleground out that was fair to all players. Because the NHL teams will pay the same amount no matter what, the same % of the HRR. So it really comes down to the players. Either that years FA group gets screwed, and some stars goes to teh AHL -- or NHL and the NHLPA keeps the cap but with big repayments done afterwards, or they agree on roll backs. The NHL pay the same amount, but it hits the players in diffrent ways.

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Old
03-21-2009, 12:53 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Yeah, I wasn't trying to get in the middle of something.

Just pointing out what I wrote.

And, if lets say HRR were to fall 50% -- just for example -- nobody would benefit from the cap gooing down 50%. The results would just be a bunch of stars in the AHL. It would become a circus. The poor teams who can't afford big contracts in the minors would have to trade them to teams who do, probably along with picks et c.

So if that extreme, unlikely situation, would happend I am 100% sure that something else would be worked out. The NHLPA have nothing to gain either in having a bunch of big stars in the AHL riding the buss. The players whos contracts were up would have been screwed royally because nobody would have money.

But the HRR won't fall 50%. If it falls 20%, I really don't know what would happend. But I don't think its extremely unlikely that the PA and NHL worked some middleground out that was fair to all players. Because the NHL teams will pay the same amount no matter what, the same % of the HRR. So it really comes down to the players. Either that years FA group gets screwed, and some stars goes to teh AHL -- or NHL and the NHLPA keeps the cap but with big repayments done afterwards, or they agree on roll backs. The NHL pay the same amount, but it hits the players in diffrent ways.
No doubt. My dispute with 94now was about his perception that owners could somehow magically change the cap on a whim to fit their individual needs - not the necessity to change it if there is some dramatic shift to the cap under the current CBA due to the impact of the economy on HRR.

If there was a tremendous reduction, as you say, the cap would HAVE to be increased, because the current formula would create a situation where there were was not enough room for all the contracts in the league under the collective cap. However, the cap IS contractually defined and the CBA would therefore have to be officially renegotiated (and we all know what happened last time that was necessary...) If there's a "normal" increase/decrease (say a single digit move), I highly doubt it gets altered.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 03-21-2009 at 01:10 PM.
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Old
03-21-2009, 05:18 PM
  #112
94now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
My dispute with 94now was about his perception that owners could somehow magically change the cap on a whim to fit their individual needs - not the necessity to change it if there is some dramatic shift to the cap under the current CBA due to the impact of the economy on HRR.
I was trying to say EXATLY what Ola did. I differ from him only in my assertion that NHL may do it even at 20% drop. No one would care if cap goes down 3 to 5 %. It is not a drop really.

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