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Old
03-21-2009, 03:40 PM
  #51
HYORI 1963
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
"high end elite"

are you ****ing kidding me...

There's about 10 "high-end elite players" in this league.

Alexander Frolov, with his career best 71pts isn't one of them.

god, this frolov coddling has got to stop and reality really needs to commence.

He's be ****ing terrible lately. This is a team trying to make the playoffs. Terry Murray gets a nice bonus if he does. Do you really think if Frolov was playing like a difference maker he'd be on the fourth line?

WAKE
THE
****
UP.
The main reason Frolov's mistakes are noticed moreso than mistakes made by someone like Brownie or Kopi is because TM punishes Frolov immediately after his turnover/poor play thus magnifying it. Believe me, if TM had benched or demoted the likes of Brownie and Kopi when they had their share of errors, we wouldn't be focused on Frolov's shortcomings.

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Old
03-21-2009, 03:42 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
The main reason Frolov's mistakes are noticed moreso than mistakes made by someone like Brownie or Kopi is because TM punishes Frolov immediately after his turnover/poor play thus magnifying it. Believe me, if TM had benched or demoted the likes of Brownie and Kopi when they had their share of errors, we wouldn't be focused on Frolov's shortcomings.
Even if I could wrap my arms around the equator, I am pretty sure I couldn't make this big of a stretch. I think you forgot your

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Old
03-21-2009, 03:46 PM
  #53
HYORI 1963
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Even if I could wrap my arms around the equator, I am pretty sure I couldn't make this big of a stretch. I think you forgot your
Sorry, I think I gave you too much credit.

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Old
03-21-2009, 04:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
Because results speak far more than line combinations. He took the youngest team in the league from last place in the league to a .500 record a meaningful games in March.

It's just really hilarious how everyone here finds it so easy to blame the coach and management yet refuses to hold their favorite players responsible for playing like ****.

Why does everybody on this board claim we're the youngest team? We're not. That goes to the Chicago Blackhawks and they're solely in the playoffs. Only one other team that's young is struggling with an identity and that's Phoenix.
I'm not totally against TM and he has had a lot of positives, but we've gone from one extreme to the other. Hopefully he can find a balance next season now that his defensive lessons have come. But you still need to score goals to win games.

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Old
03-21-2009, 04:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Yes. If Fro doesn't want to be benched, he should play like he wants the puck, when he doesn't have it.
Shouldn't that apply to all players on this club. When Fro does get the puck it's the only time that we actually keep POSSESSION for more than 10 seconds. Not to mention any type of scoring chance.


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You...think dumping the puck in is what keeps this team in last place every year? A marginally more talented team in MPLS plays essentially the same style and manages to make it annually. I'm sorry, I don't follow your incredible lack of coherency.
I guess i'm ******** but is that the Wild? You forgot to mention Backstrom. Let us have a crack at him and then i'll go along with that boring play.


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John's an ok guy. I don't buy/wear team jerseys. Sorry. Really, this comment makes you seem like more of an ass than you can possibly realize, but we don't know each other, so I'll chalk it up as some sort of humour.
My humor blows so thanks. And yes I am an ass when people try to impose their opinions on me like it's fact. You know that ol' saying about opinions. You tell me to wake up and i'll throw it right back. End of the day our opinions are useless anyways as we're still close to last place.


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That's because even when he was playing like utter dog **** without the puck, he was given an opportunity to turn it around. He didn't, so murph played the only card he has with Fro. Ice time.
Again i'm cool with it, if the love is spread equal. You can't come at me with excuses that this guy or that guy is trying harder? In who's eyes because they look useless out there and pay no consequence.


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Brown doesn't take shifts off, maybe that's the difference. He's playing like ass with the puck, but it isn't for lack of EFFORT. Try watching the game away from the puck. You might see what Terry Murray sees. You won't understand it the same way, as your post is clearly evident of a distinct lack of knowledge on how the game operates at ice level, but, whatever. Keep trying to compare Frolov and Brown. It's fun to watch armchairs wiggle like dying fish.
So becuase he handles the puck like a hand grenade and buries his head down and skates like Jerome Bettis i'm supoose to sympathize. I'm one of the biggest DB fans around. But the last two months is exactly where this guy is suppose to take over games. He's been as invisible as Preissing only difference is he's on the ice.
As for understanding the game i'll make sure I hit you up for any pointers. Neither one of us are experts when it comes to systems and I guess you're more involved with missed assignments than the actual game that's going on.

Only knock i'd have on Fro are his longer shifts than should be. But Kopi is just as guilty.



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Harrold, while not having a whole lot in the way of scoring prowess, is almost mistake-free and full of hustle on the ice.

These two things cannot be said about Alexander Frolov.

He can either play ball with coachables, or try to coast along with "intangibles" and a good scoring touch.

Too much of this game is played away/without the puck to have to play without some desperation any longer.

As for Ivan....I don't have an explanation, other than the mgmt thinks Westgarth has a higher ill-timed-penalty expectation than Ivan.
Enter Brad Chartrand and all the countless others that teams were dying to pick up. No chance! We had these same discussions about Giuliano. These guys are absolutely useless and are better served for the AHL. I mean Moller is wearing a suit because he needs to add size. Again double standards! I have never seen Harrold win a one on one battle due to size or power. 1 out of 5 and he may beat you on brains but i'd much rather take a guy that gets anhilated (Moller) to make a play. Please stop talking about intagibles like you're the only one that knows the game. If I want a lesson on that i'll just watch Zeus. But for offense i'll take a shortcoming from Fro to see something happen. This same tired subject was abused when Cammi was a one dimensional guy. Made zero sense than and makes zero sense now.

If we add Kovalchuk I hope you'll be ok with him chilling at the other blue line because he isn't going to win you a selke.

TM loves Ivan so we'll leave it there. Some of his quotes this year on him tell me no different.

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Old
03-21-2009, 05:28 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post

He's been ****ing terrible lately.


I've been really disappointed in Frolov lately. Brown as well, although he has improved in the last couple of games.

Growing pains of a young team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
The main reason Frolov's mistakes are noticed moreso than mistakes made by someone like Brownie or Kopi is because TM punishes Frolov immediately after his turnover/poor play thus magnifying it. Believe me, if TM had benched or demoted the likes of Brownie and Kopi when they had their share of errors, we wouldn't be focused on Frolov's shortcomings.
Right, and his mistakes should be magnified. When Frolov is the "best" player on the team - or certainly has demonstrated the ability to be the best player, his bar is going to be higher than others.

Comparing Brown to Frolov is pointless - Brown's skill set isn't nearly as vast as Frolov's. Kopitar's 2-way game improvement has been notable this year, and he's also 5 years younger than Frolov - Kopitar's going to have a longer leash.

Frolov is held to the highest standard, and he should be.

- T


Last edited by TonySCV: 03-21-2009 at 05:36 PM.
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Old
03-21-2009, 06:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post


I've been really disappointed in Frolov lately. Brown as well, although he has improved in the last couple of games.

Growing pains of a young team.



Right, and his mistakes should be magnified. When Frolov is the "best" player on the team - or certainly has demonstrated the ability to be the best player, his bar is going to be higher than others.

Comparing Brown to Frolov is pointless - Brown's skill set isn't nearly as vast as Frolov's. Kopitar's 2-way game improvement has been notable this year, and he's also 5 years younger than Frolov - Kopitar's going to have a longer leash.

Frolov is held to the highest standard, and he should be.

- T
Then how come JJ doesn't have the same long leash that Kopi does?

And why does OD have such a long leash when he's a veteran well into his 30s with a stanley cup ring to boot?

Can you imagine if every team in the league treated their best player to the "highest standard" thus benching and demoting everytime their star player made a mistake out on the ice? Seriously, would Iginlas, Crosbys, Ovechkins, Datsuyks all be mistreated like Frolov? I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt it.

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Old
03-21-2009, 06:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Then how come JJ doesn't have the same long leash that Kopi does?

And why does OD have such a long leash when he's a veteran well into his 30s with a stanley cup ring to boot?
Every player's situation is different, and I'm certainly not implying that I have knowledge of them all. I hope you're not either. None of us really have a clue other than what we see in person and on TV, and unfortunately we have no team reporters able/willing to ask TM those types of questions.

Some leashes are plainly evident. Others not so much, and some not at all. That requires insight from TM that we haven't received yet.

- T


Last edited by TonySCV: 03-21-2009 at 06:11 PM.
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Old
03-21-2009, 06:30 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
"high end elite"

are you ****ing kidding me...

There's about 10 "high-end elite players" in this league.

Alexander Frolov, with his career best 71pts isn't one of them.

god, this frolov coddling has got to stop and reality really needs to commence.

He's be ****ing terrible lately. This is a team trying to make the playoffs. Terry Murray gets a nice bonus if he does. Do you really think if Frolov was playing like a difference maker he'd be on the fourth line?

WAKE
THE
****
UP.
Frolov is a big reason this team was making a run for the playoffs. While the other kids were adapting to the system this season and having a hard time getting the offense going, Frolov did it for them.

I don't have a problem with the benching the other night, and i am going to assume that TM does hold Frolov to a higher standard because he is such a good player. I do question how discipline is handed out to the different players, but that is up to the coach and how he feels he can motivate.

So if the Kings are making a run for the playoffs, they remove our leading goal scorer from an offensive role especially on the power play? Wayne Simmonds has been an outstanding player, but you don't seriously think he is going to replace Frolov's offensive skills on the pp? The guy picked up points in 7 straight games prior to the Bruins game.

I actually like TM overall and continue to enjoy the development process and what has been accomplished this year, but that decision was pretty questionable imo.

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Old
03-22-2009, 04:40 PM
  #60
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So getting back to Jessica Williams? What was the reason for the hard-on again?
I guess I should wait until next season to make a full judgement but this guy is an absolute trainwreck so far!
Every time I see 14, I wish it was 12!

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Old
03-22-2009, 04:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakings41 View Post
So getting back to Jessica Williams? What was the reason for the hard-on again?
I guess I should wait until next season to make a full judgement but this guy is an absolute trainwreck so far!
Every time I see 14, I wish it was 12!
He may not be playing well, but I already see more visible passion from him than I had from the prior. He is tenacious with the puck and shows determination. His skating is noticeably poor right now, but given how much time he has seen on the sidelines I agree with you that we should really wait till next training camp/season to adequately assess his skillset. I would give him a pass for the remaining handful of games and look for signs of improvement near the very end to next season. I think we have a good player on our hands regardless of comparisons being drawn.

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Old
03-22-2009, 05:18 PM
  #62
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Can we have O'Sullivan back now?

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Old
03-22-2009, 05:31 PM
  #63
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Old
03-22-2009, 05:48 PM
  #64
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Williams SUX!!!!

I would so much rather have POS's ****** shots, poor on ice vision, and tendency to dissapear

What's better than a 2 game sample after a very difficult injury by which to judge a player???

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03-22-2009, 05:55 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
Williams SUX!!!!

I would so much rather have POS's ****** shots, poor on ice vision, and tendency to dissapear

What's better than a 2 game sample after a very difficult injury by which to judge a player???
You won't be able to judge how effective he is until after next season unfortunately. An offseason of no rehab and just the chance to do a normal workout routine should do wonders for his game. That and adding Kovalchuk or Gaborik to his line.

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Old
03-22-2009, 06:04 PM
  #66
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You won't be able to judge how effective he is until after next season unfortunately. An offseason of no rehab and just the chance to do a normal workout routine should do wonders for his game. That and adding Kovalchuk and Gaborik to his line.
Winner!!!

Do it Deano!!!

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Old
03-22-2009, 06:21 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
Williams SUX!!!!

I would so much rather have POS's ****** shots, poor on ice vision, and tendency to dissapear

What's better than a 2 game sample after a very difficult injury by which to judge a player???
A broken hand is a VERY difficult injury, since when? That's funny

I've gotta find a new career. A broken hand is not difficult.

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03-22-2009, 06:28 PM
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A broken hand is a VERY difficult injury, since when? That's funny

I've gotta find a new career. A broken hand is not difficult.
Not being able to play for a month or so makes it difficult regardless of the injury...

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03-22-2009, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
Williams SUX!!!!

I would so much rather have POS's ****** shots, poor on ice vision, and tendency to dissapear

What's better than a 2 game sample after a very difficult injury by which to judge a player???
We can't even begin to compare the two right now. I agree with most that we will have to wait probably till next season to see how the trade pans out. Hopefully some will have more patience than they did with a younger O'Sullivan, who btw seems to have resolved that on ice vision, getting in all the right spots, playing with grit, energy and getting some grade A shots. Sometimes the system just doesn't fit the player. Hopefully Williams will get his groove back and fit Tm's system in a better way.

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Old
03-22-2009, 06:35 PM
  #70
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So getting back to Jessica Williams? What was the reason for the hard-on again?
I guess I should wait until next season to make a full judgement but this guy is an absolute trainwreck so far!
Every time I see 14, I wish it was 12!
Very lame! The guy is coming back from over a month off and has to learn an entire new system. We cant all be perfect like you. Give the guy 10 games or so to work out the kinks.

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Old
03-22-2009, 06:35 PM
  #71
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Old
03-22-2009, 09:56 PM
  #72
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Not being able to play for a month or so makes it difficult regardless of the injury...
Don't back peddle. That's not what you said.

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03-22-2009, 10:05 PM
  #73
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Then how come JJ doesn't have the same long leash that Kopi does?

And why does OD have such a long leash when he's a veteran well into his 30s with a stanley cup ring to boot?

Can you imagine if every team in the league treated their best player to the "highest standard" thus benching and demoting everytime their star player made a mistake out on the ice? Seriously, would Iginlas, Crosbys, Ovechkins, Datsuyks all be mistreated like Frolov? I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt it.
I wouldn't put fro in that catagorie!!

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Old
03-22-2009, 10:15 PM
  #74
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Don't back peddle. That's not what you said.
Read his post history. It's not worth your time. You'd be better off doing this:

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Old
03-22-2009, 10:31 PM
  #75
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Don't back peddle. That's not what you said.
its what I intended

I didnt even know what he was injured with TBH

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