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Rozsival to undergo MRI Tomorrow (Update: out 7 to 10 days)

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Old
03-23-2009, 10:03 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Sorry, it has not much to do with reliability or performance:



Rozy is still a foundation like it or not.

I agree Tors regime will change that, but you cannot do it overnight. It is not about who is better or more consistent at the moment. It who is a better player. Rozy plays inconsistently, but his the best player on defense we've got. Same goes for Lundqvist, who is good goalie who has a bad season. Eventually Staal may take over, but he is a project that is a few seasons away.
Why must you act like everyone else is incompetent just because you can look up a definition to a word?

By your research and logic, every defenseman on the NYR roster is a cornerstone. No worries if you want to fool yourself, but no one else is having it.

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03-23-2009, 10:10 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Sorry, it has not much to do with reliability or performance:

Rozy is still a foundation like it or not.

I agree Tors regime will change that, but you cannot do it overnight. It is not about who is better or more consistent at the moment. It who is a better player. Rozy plays inconsistently, but his the best player on defense we've got. Same goes for Lundqvist, who is good goalie who has a bad season. Eventually Stall may take over, but he is a project that is a few seasons away.
That's definitely not true at all. A cornerstone, as it is defined, is the first-stone laid when building a structure. However a cornerstone, in the context in which we're referring to it, is an anchor. A fundamental piece. It's something that has to perform or everything else collapses. You wouldn't put down a cracked slab and build your structure around it would you? I'd hope not. Just the same as I wouldn't build my defense around Rozsival when I have Staal, Morris or even Mara to choose from.

He might have more potential in the offensive end of the ice, but that doesn't translate to results. Staal, Morris, Mara, and lately even Redden have all been light years beyond Rozsival defensively which leaves him with his offensive abilities as his lone differentiator. As I've already said, those offensive contributions have been non-existent for the last 20 games. If he's not scoring or generating offense, what exactly sets him apart from Staal or Morris right now?

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03-23-2009, 10:18 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post

This is the same situation as when we were arguing about "conspiracy" a while back. You're taking a minor definition of a word and completely ignoring the generally understood meaning to try to back up your point. Can you find a dictionary that defines cornerstone as "a basic element"? Clearly you did. But that's not what cornerstone is generally understood to mean, be it in colloquial English or in formal discourse. If you want to use some archaic understanding of the word, fine, but no one else is buying it.
I see. Merriam-Webster won't cut it. Why not to say " whatever you say we would never agree that player we don't like is very important!"


Last edited by 94now: 03-23-2009 at 10:29 AM.
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03-23-2009, 10:21 AM
  #54
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an argument can be made that redden, staal, morris, mara and girardi have played better than rozy recently. his game seems to have slipped.

all this talk of rozy being a cornerstone is silly. he has been marginal for the most part, all season and isnt more than a second pair talent on this team now.

back when he was paired with mailk, that was not a top 2 pair. he logged a ton of minutes because he had to not because of his talent. now that we have redden and staal, hes a second pair guy at best. his offensive work recently has been dismal and his skating has regressed. forget his physical play, he never had any to begin with. overall, he was sliding down the depth chart.

his poor play has been magnified by recent imporvements in the play of redden and mara and the solid work of morris since hes been here.

again, this team isnt better because rozy is out, but that arent much worse either.


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03-23-2009, 10:24 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post

again, this team isnt better because rozy is out, but that arent much worse either.
Hold on, I actually saw a worse defense after Rosy left the game.

Maybe cause our guys were tired, but thats also a problem as we wont be getting many days off from here on out. Can't count on Sauer to start eating up minutes he's not ready for.

I think if 94now is extreme going one way, some other guys are being too relaxed about this being 'not that big a deal'.

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03-23-2009, 10:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
That's definitely not true at all. A cornerstone, as it is defined, is the first-stone laid when building a structure. However a cornerstone, in the context in which we're referring to it, is an anchor. A fundamental piece. It's something that has to perform or everything else collapses. You wouldn't put down a cracked slab and build your structure around it would you? I'd hope not.
Yep, you got it right. I'm seriously afraid our entire defense will suffer, if not completely collapse w/o him.

Take Avery for example. Is he an elite forward? No way. But he has quickly emerged as a cornerstone of our offense. The him out and we've got noting. All you've got left is Torts system that no one knows what, the hell, it is. Even when Avery doesn't have it we can win (except yesterday ) .

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03-23-2009, 10:30 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I see. Merriam-Webster won't cut it. Why not to say " whatever you say we would never agree that player we do like like is very important!"
Okay, I have no idea what you just wrote in quotes so I'm going to ignore it. And no, Merriam-Webster won't "cut it." Did you read what I said? I didn't disagree that you can find a definition supporting your argument. I said that your definition isn't the commonly understood definition. Like Trxjw said, the definition you use would mean that EVERY defenseman currently on our team is a cornerstone defenseman. Okay, maybe an incredibly broad definition agrees with you, but what's the ****ing point?

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03-23-2009, 10:33 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Yep, you got it right. I'm seriously afraid our entire defense will suffer, if not completely collapse w/o him.
Then we agree to disagree. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion.

Quote:
Take Avery for example. Is he an elite forward? No way. But he has quickly emerged as a cornerstone of our offense. The him out and we've got noting. All you've got left is Torts system that no one knows what, the hell, it is. Even when Avery doesn't have it we can win (except yesterday ) .
Important piece of our offense? Yes. Cornerstone? Debatable.

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03-23-2009, 10:39 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I think if 94now is extreme going one way, some other guys are being too relaxed about this being 'not that big a deal'.
It is a big deal because no matter how you slice it, you're still replacing a veteran with a rookie. However, I'd feel much less confident about this last year as opposed to this year. IMHO, Rozsival is no longer as vital to our defense as he was in previous years. We have better d-men at our disposal.

Will Sauer step in and be rock-solid? Probably not. Still, I can't say Rozsival has been Mr. Reliable back there either. I think Sauer is capable of stepping in and playing 15 minutes a night on the 3rd pairing. My point is that it's not as bad as some are making it out to be.

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03-23-2009, 10:59 AM
  #60
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Rozsival's inability/unwillingness to shoot the puck is what makes this "not that big a deal". The guy was never anything special in the defensive zone, serviceable yes, but nothing special. The fact that he put up 40 points was what made him important, and ever since he lost that ability (who knows why...) he started to blend into the rest of the defense corps.

If Sauer can step in and be serviceable in the defensive zone while chipping in a point here and there no one will even notice Rosie's absence because that's all he's been doing all along. The question is whether or not a rookie can do that while dealing with the pressure of a stretch run. People sometimes tend to underrate just how difficult it is to be a solid, not very noticeable defender in the NHL.

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03-23-2009, 11:00 AM
  #61
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If we had the depth I might be taking this as casual as some of you, but this is a guy, extremely hated yes, but he's logging 20 minutes a game, of course this will effect the team. I hope its not a bad injury.

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03-23-2009, 11:07 AM
  #62
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Most unappreciated player on the team, by far. This thread pretty much proves it.

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03-23-2009, 11:15 AM
  #63
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Most unappreciated player on the team, by far. This thread pretty much proves it.
underperforming

one of the most overpaid

overutilized

underachieiving

i would take any of those over unappreciated.

again, we are NOT replacing rozys minutes with sauer. we are replacing rozys minutes with morris/mara and then giving sauer 3rd pair minutes. and sauerr will not be needed on the pp- then again, rozy wasnt either.

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03-23-2009, 11:21 AM
  #64
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94now is trying to stir the pot again, what a shock. Let me guess, Lundqvist was somehow responsible for Rozy's injury?

Hopefully Rozy's injury isn't serious, but I have noticed a drop-off in his play recently. Once again, he looks really hesitant with the puck on the PP. I think he is a solid d-man but I just wish he was a little more confident in himself.

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03-23-2009, 11:45 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
underperforming

one of the most overpaid

overutilized

underachieiving

i would take any of those over unappreciated.

again, we are NOT replacing rozys minutes with sauer. we are replacing rozys minutes with morris/mara and then giving sauer 3rd pair minutes. and sauerr will not be needed on the pp- then again, rozy wasnt either.
The "3rd" pairing on the Rangers has averaged over 19 minutes post deadline, Rozy averaged a little over 20.

Phew, thank god for that 1 minute less, Sauer should easily slide in that role then. God forbid he had to take over his minutes.

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03-23-2009, 12:25 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Let me guess, Lundqvist was somehow responsible for Rozy's injury?
The Sexiest Man was only responsible for our loss to Ottawa. That was quite enough.

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Hopefully Rozy's injury isn't serious
All knee injuries are serious. Any joint injury I'd say. If he is out for more than 2 weeks Rangers season is over.

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03-23-2009, 12:37 PM
  #67
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Idk if this is good or bad.

It's bad that the guy is injured obviously but now we can get another look at a prospect.
What do you mean you don't know? WTF?

We are in a fight for the playoffs and we lose one of our top D-men.

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03-23-2009, 12:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post


first. this way rozy cant pollute the pp anymore. thats addition by subtraction. our pp will get better without him on the point.

second, he kinda blows. im sorry, mikes been below average for long stretches and recently seems to have slowed down even. not that impressed with him in the dzone either. his play overall has been, well, not good.

third, redden has played well of late under torts who challenged him to be better. he has. he seems to have found his confidence to join the rush and his pp work with morris has been excellent recently.


fourth, i think morris has been one of our best dmen for the last 2 weeks and he needs more minutes. we are fortunate that we made that deal for him, as he can step in and play top 4 minutes and, imo, do it better than michelle rozsival can. hes played better than rozy. plain and simple.

You peaked my interest with this part. I am as frustrated as anyone with how inconsistent Rozy and Redden have been all season long. This part above though where you compare their recent production, specifically since Torts took over made me curious if our perception as fans matched the actual production.

So I looked up the stats for all 3 of these players over the past month. The last month has been post Renney so that is why I used a month. (Plus I am trying to train my mind to forget Reddens first 60 games as a Ranger to reduce the symptoms of naseau it causes)

Here are the results, these are just the raw numbers of the past month.

I will do Morris first because we can only track what he has done since March 5th.

Derek Morris: (Since March 5)
Ice time: 19.17
Goals: 0
Assists: 2
Power play points: 2
(+/-): +1


Wade Redden: (Last Month) (Feb 22nd to March 22nd)
Ice time: 22:17
Goals: 1
Assists: 3
Power play points: 2
(+/-): +1

Now are you ready for Rozy's? I expected it to be slightly inferior to the above two. I was wrong.

Michael Rozsival: (Last Month) (Feb 22nd to March 22nd)
Ice time: 23:15
Goals: 1
Assists: 3
Power play points: 2
(+/-): +6


Those stats don't match the perception that Rozsival is being badly outplayed. I will admit I was even surprised by those numbers. This idea that losing Rozy isn't a big deal because he has been playing badly doesn't mesh with those numbers.

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post

lastly, this gives a kid a chance to show up and play. i have confidence that sauer will step up.

That is fair. I am excited to see Sauer play too and I hope he does really well. I just wish it was under a different circumstance.


offdacrossbar, even though I am replying to your post this isn't really directed at you. It is more in response to what seems to be a recent board wide perception that Rozy has been bad/can't play in Torts system etc etc.

The thing that frustrates me about Rozy more than anything is the inconsistency. I would be fine with just accepting him for what he is if he didn't show those glimpses every once in a while. Those glimpses raise my expectations of him and he rarely sustains it.

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03-23-2009, 01:00 PM
  #69
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The Sexiest Man was only responsible for our loss to Ottawa. That was quite enough.


All knee injuries are serious. Any joint injury I'd say. If he is out for more than 2 weeks Rangers season is over.
um. no.

not by a long shot.

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03-23-2009, 01:16 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
It is more in response to what seems to be a recent board wide perception that Rozy has been bad/can't play in Torts system etc etc.
Rozy will not play in Torts system. In off season he will more likely than not be traded, b/c Sather would have no other choice to undo his shopping spree. Sather didn't pull the trigger before TDL most probably b/c he had some misgivings (contrary to some one here) about us making the PO w/o Rozy. The Redden sudden improvement is product of a MSG propaganda machine that manipulates fans opinion in order not to allow another Poti or Malik. Thanks for the numbers, TL.

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03-23-2009, 01:23 PM
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We will be fine. Is the replacement going to get all of Roszival's 20 minutes? No way. He won't be as good as Roszival just because it is impossible for a rookie to step into this situation and perform as well as a vet.

So why will we be ok? Staal is going to log 30 minutes a night and he will thrive. He won't just get the job done, he is going to be better with the extra time. Girardi has been better since joining Staal and he'll continue to perform in this situation. Mara and Morris need more minutes with their edge and grit and their solid play in the D-zone. They both could use some more offensive responsibility anyway.

I see this as a challenge not to just the D men, but the whole team and I think that this team is meeting its challenges of late.

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03-23-2009, 01:28 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Rozy will not play in Torts system. In off season he will more likely than not be traded, b/c Sather would have no other choice to undo his shopping spree. Sather didn't pull the trigger before TDL most probably b/c he had some misgivings (contrary to some one here) about us making the PO w/o Rozy. The Redden sudden improvement is product of a MSG propaganda machine that manipulates fans opinion in order not to allow another Poti or Malik. Thanks for the numbers, TL.
Attachment 32770


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03-23-2009, 01:29 PM
  #73
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How many man games has the team missed so far?

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03-23-2009, 01:32 PM
  #74
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How many man games has the team missed so far?
I'm not sure of the exact number, but it has to be extremely small. We've had remarkably good health this season.

EDIT: Can't find any recent numbers, but through 47 games, we had lost 10 man games! Fewest in the league. Phoenix was second with 34.

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/1/18...-games-lost-to


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03-23-2009, 01:33 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
You peaked my interest with this part. I am as frustrated as anyone with how inconsistent Rozy and Redden have been all season long. This part above though where you compare their recent production, specifically since Torts took over made me curious if our perception as fans matched the actual production.

So I looked up the stats for all 3 of these players over the past month. The last month has been post Renney so that is why I used a month. (Plus I am trying to train my mind to forget Reddens first 60 games as a Ranger to reduce the symptoms of naseau it causes)

Here are the results, these are just the raw numbers of the past month.

I will do Morris first because we can only track what he has done since March 5th.

Derek Morris: (Since March 5)
Ice time: 19.17
Goals: 0
Assists: 2
Power play points: 2
(+/-): +1


Wade Redden: (Last Month) (Feb 22nd to March 22nd)
Ice time: 22:17
Goals: 1
Assists: 3
Power play points: 2
(+/-): +1

Now are you ready for Rozy's? I expected it to be slightly inferior to the above two. I was wrong.

Michael Rozsival: (Last Month) (Feb 22nd to March 22nd)
Ice time: 23:15
Goals: 1
Assists: 3
Power play points: 2
(+/-): +6


Those stats don't match the perception that Rozsival is being badly outplayed. I will admit I was even surprised by those numbers. This idea that losing Rozy isn't a big deal because he has been playing badly doesn't mesh with those numbers.




That is fair. I am excited to see Sauer play too and I hope he does really well. I just wish it was under a different circumstance.


offdacrossbar, even though I am replying to your post this isn't really directed at you. It is more in response to what seems to be a recent board wide perception that Rozy has been bad/can't play in Torts system etc etc.

The thing that frustrates me about Rozy more than anything is the inconsistency. I would be fine with just accepting him for what he is if he didn't show those glimpses every once in a while. Those glimpses raise my expectations of him and he rarely sustains it.
great post !!

ok tom. fair points. i must admit i too am surprised by the numbers. it shows that rozy has been about the same as the other 2 on the pp as far as points go and at even strength, rozy has been better- as far as the plus/minus is concerned. and for the record, i never once said rozy cant play in a torts system. while i believe his play lately hasnt been particularly sharp, he isnt costing us games. it appears to me that inspite of the numbers you detail, he still seems hesitant and lacking confidence while redden seems to be blossoming under torts and morris gets a little better pretty much every game. add toi that staals recent surge in play and maras steady improvement and rozy stands out as the lagard of the group.

perception is reality unless the details get in the way.

my major beef with rozy has always been that he is a non productive player on the pp. he has, in the past, logged an enormous amount of minutes on the pp and was for the most part, ineffective and at times, a liability. my biggest issue with him is his pp work and lack of shooting the puck and your numbers show that morris has been equally as productive as rozy has been in a shorter sample period.

rozy is not a bad player. on this we all agree. my point simply is to what degree will his injury effect the team. my contention is that his absence will not have a big impact in the overall defensive play and may actually help the pp.

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