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Steve Bernier to the Habs?

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Old
03-23-2009, 11:09 AM
  #1
FrankMTL
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Steve Bernier to the Habs?

This is just out of sheer curiosity as I have no clue how much value Steve has to the Canucks. What would it cost for the habs to get Steve Bernier from the Canucks? I think he would fit really well on a line with Latendresse and Lapierre.

Thanks guys.

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03-23-2009, 11:09 AM
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Jack Bourdain
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Maybe, just maybe.

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03-23-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
[Insert the we don't need more soft players argument here]

You're kidding right? Bernier? Soft? We are talking about Steve Bernier, not Jonathan. If he were to be on the Habs he would be your best hitting forward.

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03-23-2009, 11:14 AM
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Got to love the "[every Quebecer in the league] to MTL" threads.

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03-23-2009, 11:15 AM
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Nice edit Jack. Glad you came to your senses

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03-23-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quiet Robert
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It makes perfect sense because the Habs desperately need another forward who isn't going to work hard every night...

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03-23-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
This is just out of sheer curiosity as I have no clue how much value Steve has to the Canucks. What would it cost for the habs to get Steve Bernier from the Canucks? I think he would fit really well on a line with Latendresse and Lapierre.

Thanks guys.
I can't see his value being that high... but I see no reason for the canucks to move him without getting something similar back...

he fills a need at forward... is the most consistently physical forward on the team, still young and has more upside. The canucks bottom 6 isn't all that tough either without Bernier.

simply put, I don't think that Montreal has the type of assets available that it would take to acquire Bernier, as the canucks aren't really in the need for futures or any softer players, while for Montreal it doesn't make sense to move anyone that can contribute now and is physical for Bernier as it would be a lateral move.

value-wise, I'd say his value is right about where it was when the canucks acquired him - a 2nd and 3rd round pick... but again there's no reason at all for the canucks to move him for that. The type of players they'd want back would be guys like Latendresse - and again lateral moves like that won't benefit the Habs.

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03-23-2009, 11:19 AM
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Jack Bourdain
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Originally Posted by Penguins23 View Post
You're kidding right? Bernier? Soft? We are talking about Steve Bernier, not Jonathan. If he were to be on the Habs he would be your best hitting forward.
I was trying to be sarcastic, but saw people wouldn't understand without the , so I dropped it

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Old
03-23-2009, 11:19 AM
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This summer it would probably takes something around a 2nd+ which is what we got his RFA rights for.

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Old
03-23-2009, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
It makes perfect sense because the Habs desperately need another forward who isn't going to work hard every night...
don't know a thing about Bernier do you??

he has been one of the most consistently hard working players on the canucks roster all season long. This isn't the same Bernier that was advertised as being lazy and unmotivated... he comes to play every night, every shift.

sounds like you have no clue who Bernier is with comments like that!

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03-23-2009, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt714 View Post
Got to love the "[every Quebecer in the league] to MTL" threads.
I asked how much he would cost as he seems to be a young physical player who can put the puck in the net....something the Habs really need. Obviously he has consistency issues...but a lot of young players do. I really don't care that he's Quebecer other then the fact that we always think we can bring the best out of home town boys. Thanks for your contribution to this thread ...

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03-23-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
It makes perfect sense because the Habs desperately need another forward who isn't going to work hard every night...
Bernier may have started off the season slow but once hes become adapted to the system (last 25-30) games he has been noticable when hes on the ice ... hes leading our forwards in hits if not our whole team

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03-23-2009, 11:35 AM
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The value of Bernier to the Habs is not enough to make the Canucks give him up.

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Old
03-23-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
don't know a thing about Bernier do you??

he has been one of the most consistently hard working players on the canucks roster all season long. This isn't the same Bernier that was advertised as being lazy and unmotivated... he comes to play every night, every shift.

sounds like you have no clue who Bernier is with comments like that!
What's to say that will continue after he gets his contract this summer or in Montreal if he were to come? He'd be an instant star in Montreal and could easily fall back into his old habits in that city. Will he adapt to Montreal's system? If the new coach asks him to play a different role will he buy into it?

He's a kid with a promising future and he hits like a truck but if I'm targeting him as a possible acquisition in the offseason, the questions about his work ethic are a legitimate concern. I don't follow the Canucks as closely as someone in Vancouver, but I have seen quite a few of their games and people like Burrows and Kesler have blown me away with their work ethic. Bernier has been noticeable of late, but he doesn't seem like not someone Montreal is going to go after.

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03-23-2009, 11:42 AM
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Can't be traded until July 3 or so, since he signed an offer sheet with the Blues last off season.

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Old
03-23-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
What's to say that will continue after he gets his contract this summer or in Montreal if he were to come? He'd be an instant star in Montreal and could easily fall back into his old habits in that city. Will he adapt to Montreal's system? If the new coach asks him to play a different role will he buy into it?

He's a kid with a promising future and he hits like a truck but if I'm targeting him as a possible acquisition in the offseason, the questions about his work ethic are a legitimate concern. I don't follow the Canucks as closely as someone in Vancouver, but I have seen quite a few of their games and people like Burrows and Kesler have blown me away with their work ethic. Bernier has been noticeable of late, but he doesn't seem like not someone Montreal is going to go after.
the same is true for every player out there!

like you said, he's a kid with a promising future (although he's now 23 and has been in a league for a while)... do most players at that age show progression in their game, or do they have a solid year with their work ethic and then revert back to being lazy and unmotivated?

but you can ask that about any player on any team... there are no guarantees that they will fit with another team's system or style... no guarantees that they don't regress once they sign a new contract... all you can do is play the percentages.. and with Bernier, I see a young powerforward who's shown a very solid work ethic this year, comes to play every night and showing progression overall as a player - and especially as a team player... it should also be noted that if he was a player that would regress after signing a big contract, he could have easily done so this year... since the offer sheet he got more than doubled his salary right away, and now at worst, his qualifying offer will increase his overall earning potential because of that... if he was a player that would regress after a big contract, I think we would be more likely to see the player that people were labeling as being lazy before - but instead he's playing harder every shift this season.

when I see someone like that at his age, I'd rather believe that he's showing progression, not someone who's playing over his head and will revert to the player he was at 21 or 22. And like we all know by now, especially when it comes to young powerforwards, they take more time to develop because their games require so much more of that physical presence that they just don't develop till later in their careers since that's the one part of every players game (the physical attributes and the confidence to use it) that takes experience and physical maturity to get to.


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Old
03-23-2009, 11:47 AM
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PK Subban for Bernier?

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Old
03-23-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quiet Robert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
the same is true for every player out there!

like you said, he's a kid with a promising future (although he's now 23 and has been in a league for a while)... do most players at that age show progression in their game, or do they have a solid year with their work ethic and then revert back to being lazy and unmotivated?

but you can ask that about any player on any team... there are no guarantees that they will fit with another team's system or style... no guarantees that they don't regress once they sign a new contract... all you can do is play the percentages.. and with Bernier, I see a young powerforward who's shown a very solid work ethic this year, comes to play every night and showing progression overall as a player - and especially as a team player.

when I see someone like that at his age, I'd rather believe that he's showing progression, not someone who's playing over his head and will revert to the player he was at 21 or 22. And like we all know by now, especially when it comes to young powerforwards, they take more time to develop because their games require so much more of that physical presence that they just don't develop till later in their careers since that's the one part of every players game (the physical attributes and the confidence to use it) that takes experience and physical maturity to get to.
Fair enough and you bring up some good points but when talking specifically about Montreal's situation, in this case I don't know if Bernier would have the proper support structure. The way this team is going now a guy like Bernier could fall into a funk, revert to old habits, then the media would get on him and we could be saddled with Penner2.0 (if he gets a big contract this summer.) Or he would be labeled as the saviour and unrealistic expectations would be attached to him. (Latendresse2.0) Either way without the proper group in place to support him, it's lose-lose for a kid like Bernier in Montreal.

Montreal needs to worry about its top end players and put in place a solid leadership group that is based around work ethic and teamwork before they start to think about acquiring support players. Especially if they are young support players who have more risk attached to them. I'm not knocking Bernier, but realistically, in a situation like Montreal's, you have to consider the risks.

In Vancouver's situation, it might be a case of it being a great fit. He's not asked to be the guy, the media isn't going to treat him like a superstar and blow his accomplishments and potential out of proportion (which could happen in Montreal) and he seems to have a good veteran support system in the locker room.

My first comment may have been a bit snarky, and I don't want to come across as though I don't like Bernier, but I think Montreal's problems run deeper than support players. We're going to need to make some serious changes in the offseason. Once those are addressed and the core is in place, we can start to look at support players like Bernier.

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03-23-2009, 12:13 PM
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What about :

Higgins and Chipchura for Bernier and a 2nd pick

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03-23-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
don't know a thing about Bernier do you??

he has been one of the most consistently hard working players on the canucks roster all season long. This isn't the same Bernier that was advertised as being lazy and unmotivated... he comes to play every night, every shift.

sounds like you have no clue who Bernier is with comments like that!
That may be but it's hard to take Canuck fan seriously when every player mentioned in a trade is their best or "consistent" player.

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03-23-2009, 12:15 PM
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Fair enough and you bring up some good points but when talking specifically about Montreal's situation, in this case I don't know if Bernier would have the proper support structure. The way this team is going now a guy like Bernier could fall into a funk, revert to old habits, then the media would get on him and we could be saddled with Penner2.0 (if he gets a big contract this summer.) Or he would be labeled as the saviour and unrealistic expectations would be attached to him. (Latendresse2.0) Either way without the proper group in place to support him, it's lose-lose for a kid like Bernier in Montreal.

Montreal needs to worry about its top end players and put in place a solid leadership group that is based around work ethic and teamwork before they start to think about acquiring support players. Especially if they are young support players who have more risk attached to them. I'm not knocking Bernier, but realistically, in a situation like Montreal's, you have to consider the risks.

In Vancouver's situation, it might be a case of it being a great fit. He's not asked to be the guy, the media isn't going to treat him like a superstar and blow his accomplishments and potential out of proportion (which could happen in Montreal) and he seems to have a good veteran support system in the locker room.

My first comment may have been a bit snarky, and I don't want to come across as though I don't like Bernier, but I think Montreal's problems run deeper than support players. We're going to need to make some serious changes in the offseason. Once those are addressed and the core is in place, we can start to look at support players like Bernier.
quite possible that happens to him in Montreal... but I think the problem isn't then the media or atmosphere in Montreal, or even players like Bernier - it's the organization and how they develop and treat their own players.

I think a big reason why he's had success - at least when it comes to his work ethic - is the structure put in place in Vancouver... there's a specialized training staff that sets programs for every player individually... a nutritionist staff that makes all meals specifically for each player depending on body type and needs... things in place like that can only help a player's development overall.. we've already seen the tremendous effect this has had on Wellwood this season as well.

Not saying that this is the only reason why Bernier has been able to be successful this season, but this is likely a big reason for it... another reason, IMO that Bernier has shown significant improvement in his work ethic is because of players like Kesler and Burrows around... he played with them for a good portion of the season earlier, and their work ethic seems to have rubbed off on him (like it does with a lot of other players on the team).

and there's no way I can see Bernier getting a contract anything close to Penner's unless he gets an offer sheet - in which case I hope the canucks just take the picks... Bernier is a good player, but not worth anything close to that... he is right now overpaid at $2.5mill because of that last offer sheet. I can see him signing for a bit less on a 3-4 year deal instead (in the $2mill/yr range), similar to what we saw with Kesler after he accepted his $1.9mill offer sheet and signed at $1.75mill/yr after.

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Old
03-23-2009, 12:17 PM
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What about :

Higgins and Chipchura for Bernier and a 2nd pick
overpayment IMO ofor Bernier... Higgins is having a rough season, but he's still a good young player, adn I can see Chipchura being a valuable shutdown center down the road... again young and still more potential.

I don't think that Bernier has that type of value.

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Old
03-23-2009, 12:19 PM
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We already have Steve Bernier. His name is Guillaume Latendresse.

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Old
03-23-2009, 12:20 PM
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That may be but it's hard to take Canuck fan seriously when every player mentioned in a trade is their best or "consistent" player.
tell me how that's different than what you get from fans of every team?

I remember reading MANY threads about how Latendresse was the second coming only a year ago... an "untouchable" player that there's no way that Montreal would ever deal... Higgins was talked about just like that as well... as were Komisarek, and the Kostityns... and just a couple months ago, you couldn't trade the world for Price either.

every fan base overrates their own players... the best thing to do is actually watch them play... and I doubt that anyone that watches Bernier play every game would think that his work ethic hasn't been consistent all season long.

but seriously, I find it ridiculous that you'd take a shot at canuck fans for doing what every fan base does with their players

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03-23-2009, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
overpayment IMO ofor Bernier... Higgins is having a rough season, but he's still a good young player, adn I can see Chipchura being a valuable shutdown center down the road... again young and still more potential.

I don't think that Bernier has that type of value.
Higgins is RFA at the end of the season.

The Canucks are losers in such a deal, especially because of the draft pick.

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