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EDM-TB draft day (If TB has 1st overall)

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Old
03-26-2009, 10:30 AM
  #1
Roof Daddy
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EDM-TB draft day (If TB has 1st overall)

I realize this may strike the ire of TBay fans much like all the Stamkos proposals last year did, but if Lecav isn't going anywhere, and Stamkos is set as the number 2 center, would the Lightning not at least listen to offers if it was a package deal that would make them a playoff team next year?

I realize they could just draft Hedman, but then the follow up question is, how much is he going to cost following his entry level deal? There's a good possibility they end up in the same cap situation they were with the big 3 before (this version being Vinny, Stamkos and Hedman).

So....

To TBay: Gilbert, Cogliano, Nilsson, 1st 09, 1st 10

To EDM: 1st overall (aka JT)

Gilbert becomes their #1 Dman, signed for 5 more years at 4mil (Hedman's rookie bonuses would have him close to this number on his entry deal, not to mention 6+ on his second deal)

Nilsson has the skill to fit in with Vinny and Prospal (keeping the Malone-Stamkos-St.Louis line in tact).

Cogliano has proven to be productive (18G as rookie, could hit 20 this year) despite not getting the top 6 ice time he deserves. He'd be in a similar situation in TBay, but also fits in to a top 2 C role in the event of injury.

The 1st rder is likely in the middle of the pack where Kassian/Ferraro should still be there.

The 1st rder the following yearmay be in the same vicinity

For the Oilers, they get a guy who should be a perrenial 40 goal scorer, who happens to be a very good friend of Sam Gagner. The Oilers accomplish what they seem to fail at year after year in Free Agency - get a first shot scorer to play with Hemsky.

Thoughts from the TBay side?

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Old
03-26-2009, 10:43 AM
  #2
SLAPSHOT723
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The Lightning need Hedman.

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Old
03-26-2009, 11:00 AM
  #3
Darth Milbury
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TB is not trading Hedman for the likes of Gilbert and Nilsson, that's for sure. In fact, I'd say that Nilsson, with his craptastic season and three
year deal, actually detracts from the value of the package.

A more interesting question, to me, is whether the Bolts will go for Hedman if they wind up with the first overall. Since they already have two excellent centers, do they draft the higher rated player (Tavares) or the player that most fits their needs (Hedman)?

If I were Tampa, I'd probably go for the BPA, and then worry about making moves later to balance the roster. Or, at the very least, I'd try to extort some return from the Isles (or whoever is drafting at #2) and then move down and take Hedman.

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03-26-2009, 11:01 AM
  #4
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Tampa could get better offers.

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Old
03-26-2009, 12:01 PM
  #5
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IMO we overpay a bit.

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Old
03-26-2009, 01:24 PM
  #6
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Gilbert has been the punching bag of Oilers fans lately, how much value does he truly have?

Nilsson doesn't have much value either, I believe he has been riding the bench several times this season.

Cogliano is a bit of a mystery, shows flashes of 2nd line center talent but then fades in to mediocrity for long spells.

2 1sts which both would be around the 10-15th range or so (I don't see Oilers truly sucking or truly competiting in the next 2 years).

Nah, I think Bolts would want some top end talent/value.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Bolts trade to 2nd spot if they get the first pick in the lottery.

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Old
03-26-2009, 01:25 PM
  #7
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I don't know what will happen but as a TB fan, I don't think we're lucky enough to get one of the first two picks. I'm betting we get 3rd or 4th, then trade down...

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Old
03-26-2009, 01:28 PM
  #8
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Sub Hemsky in for Nilsson and they maybe consider it.

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Old
03-26-2009, 01:59 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
TB is not trading Hedman for the likes of Gilbert and Nilsson, that's for sure. In fact, I'd say that Nilsson, with his craptastic season and three
year deal, actually detracts from the value of the package.

A more interesting question, to me, is whether the Bolts will go for Hedman if they wind up with the first overall. Since they already have two excellent centers, do they draft the higher rated player (Tavares) or the player that most fits their needs (Hedman)?

If I were Tampa, I'd probably go for the BPA, and then worry about making moves later to balance the roster. Or, at the very least, I'd try to extort some return from the Isles (or whoever is drafting at #2) and then move down and take Hedman.
Darth!
The likes of Gilbert? You make Gilbert sound like not that great an asset.

Your talking about a man who is top 30 in scoring with a positive even clearance.

Look at the top 30. How many are at least +5. 13.

1 Mike Green
3 Brian Rafalski
4 Mark Streit
5 Dan Boyle
6 Nicklas Lidstrom
9 Shea Weber
13 Dennis Wideman
14 Zdeno Chara
16 Rob Blake
18 Duncan Keith
22 Tom Gilbert
23 Kimmo Timonen
27 Filip Kuba

Nice group!

I'd say that Nilsson, with his craptastic season!
Scoring more than the other team wins.

40 RW outscore competition. Nilsson is one of them.
40 LW outscore competition. Cogliano is one of them. How fast is this Kid.

Yeah, reject that proposal Milbury.

That pick would never get that much. Huge overpayment.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:02 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Darth!
The likes of Gilbert? You make Gilbert sound like not that great an asset.

Your talking about a man who is top 30 in scoring with a positive even clearance.

Look at the top 30. How many are at least +5. 13.

1 Mike Green
3 Brian Rafalski
4 Mark Streit
5 Dan Boyle
6 Nicklas Lidstrom
9 Shea Weber
13 Dennis Wideman
14 Zdeno Chara
16 Rob Blake
18 Duncan Keith
22 Tom Gilbert
23 Kimmo Timonen
27 Filip Kuba

Nice group!

I'd say that Nilsson, with his craptastic season!
Scoring more than the other team wins.

40 RW outscore competition. Nilsson is one of them.
40 LW outscore competition. Cogliano is one of them. How fast is this Kid.

Yeah, reject that proposal Milbury.

That pick would never get that much. Huge overpayment.
This package isn't even in the realm of what the Nordiques got for Eric Lindros. Not saying Tavares/Hedman are as good as Lindros was, but they are in the same realm. Gilbert, Nilson, Cogliano isn't in the same realm as Forsberg, Ricci, Hexall, 2 more good players, 2 firsts + 15 million (1990s money).

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:05 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
This package isn't even in the realm of what the Nordiques got for Eric Lindros. Not saying Tavares/Hedman are as good as Lindros was, but they are in the same realm. Gilbert, Nilson, Cogliano isn't in the same realm as Forsberg, Ricci, Hexall, 2 more good players, 2 firsts + 15 million (1990s money).
Your using the dumbest trade in history as supporting evidenvce.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:06 PM
  #12
rajuabju
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I realize this may strike the ire of TBay fans much like all the Stamkos proposals last year did, but if Lecav isn't going anywhere, and Stamkos is set as the number 2 center, would the Lightning not at least listen to offers if it was a package deal that would make them a playoff team next year?

I realize they could just draft Hedman, but then the follow up question is, how much is he going to cost following his entry level deal? There's a good possibility they end up in the same cap situation they were with the big 3 before (this version being Vinny, Stamkos and Hedman).

So....

To TBay: Gilbert, Cogliano, Nilsson, 1st 09, 1st 10

To EDM: 1st overall (aka JT)

Gilbert becomes their #1 Dman, signed for 5 more years at 4mil (Hedman's rookie bonuses would have him close to this number on his entry deal, not to mention 6+ on his second deal)

Nilsson has the skill to fit in with Vinny and Prospal (keeping the Malone-Stamkos-St.Louis line in tact).

Cogliano has proven to be productive (18G as rookie, could hit 20 this year) despite not getting the top 6 ice time he deserves. He'd be in a similar situation in TBay, but also fits in to a top 2 C role in the event of injury.

The 1st rder is likely in the middle of the pack where Kassian/Ferraro should still be there.

The 1st rder the following yearmay be in the same vicinity

For the Oilers, they get a guy who should be a perrenial 40 goal scorer, who happens to be a very good friend of Sam Gagner. The Oilers accomplish what they seem to fail at year after year in Free Agency - get a first shot scorer to play with Hemsky.

Thoughts from the TBay side?
I think Tavares is gonna be great, but wow thats a lot to give up.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:08 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Your using the dumbest trade in history as supporting evidenvce.

Nice One.
So what do you have? How many Hedmans/Tavares got traded for the package you just offered?

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:13 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
TB is not trading Hedman for the likes of Gilbert and Nilsson, that's for sure. In fact, I'd say that Nilsson, with his craptastic season and three
year deal, actually detracts from the value of the package.

A more interesting question, to me, is whether the Bolts will go for Hedman if they wind up with the first overall. Since they already have two excellent centers, do they draft the higher rated player (Tavares) or the player that most fits their needs (Hedman)?

If I were Tampa, I'd probably go for the BPA, and then worry about making moves later to balance the roster. Or, at the very least, I'd try to extort some return from the Isles (or whoever is drafting at #2) and then move down and take Hedman.
You can try and move down a spot, but, if there's nothing substantial being offered by whoever is drafting #2, you have to go with Hedman. I believe in the BPA strategy, but, this is a case where the top 2 are at such an elite level as prospects, that, you can't just assume you can get an equivalent of Hedman at a later point. If Tampa wants a young guy capable of that franchise defenceman role, they need to draft Hedman. Opportunities for players of that calibre don't come up often.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:16 PM
  #15
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If I am Tampa and I have the 1st overall pick, I offer it to the Islanders (who really need Tavares) for the #2 overall plus.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:18 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Your using the dumbest trade in history as supporting evidenvce.
Not even close to the dumbest trade in history. Jokinen and Luongo were traded for Kvasha and Parrish, for God's sake. Lindros was a Top 5 talent of all time.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
If I am Tampa and I have the 1st overall pick, I offer it to the Islanders (who really need Tavares) for the #2 overall plus.
Pretty much. The consensus number 1 overall RARELY gets traded in ANY sport. But in this case, at least we have the consensus number 2.

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03-26-2009, 02:21 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
Pretty much. The consensus number 1 overall RARELY gets traded in ANY sport. But in this case, at least we have the consensus number 2.
If I were Tampa, I'd want the #2 overall, San Jose's 1st, and a decent roster player.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:39 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
IMO we overpay a bit.
I hope you mean "we" from a Tampa Bay Lightning point of view.

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Old
03-26-2009, 03:21 PM
  #20
Roof Daddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Sub Hemsky in for Nilsson and they maybe consider it.
You've gotta be kidding. Hemsky straight up for the 1st overall would be tough to want to do (Vinny with Hemmer would look unreal and he'd be a 30-60 guy instantly... if not higher). I'd probably do it, but to add in Gilbert, Cogs and 2 1sts - not a chance in hell, let alone to add in just one of those pieces along with Hemmer.

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Old
03-26-2009, 03:43 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Not even close to the dumbest trade in history. Jokinen and Luongo were traded for Kvasha and Parrish, for God's sake. Lindros was a Top 5 talent of all time.
thats number 2 on my list.

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Old
03-26-2009, 03:51 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
thats number 2 on my list.

Your list is faulty, then.

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Old
03-26-2009, 03:57 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
You've gotta be kidding. Hemsky straight up for the 1st overall would be tough to want to do (Vinny with Hemmer would look unreal and he'd be a 30-60 guy instantly... if not higher). I'd probably do it, but to add in Gilbert, Cogs and 2 1sts - not a chance in hell, let alone to add in just one of those pieces along with Hemmer.
How many first overall picks have been worse than Hemsky.

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Old
03-26-2009, 04:07 PM
  #24
oilerbear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Not even close to the dumbest trade in history. Jokinen and Luongo were traded for Kvasha and Parrish, for God's sake. Lindros was a Top 5 talent of all time.
Jokinen and Luongo were traded for Kvasha and Parrish, for God's sake.

thats number 2 on my list.

Lindros was a Top 5 talent of all time

to be in the top 50 in goals you need 472
Lindros 372
to be in the top 50 in Assists 690
Lindros 493
His points/GM not bad just no length to career.

1 Wayne Gretzky 1980 1999 1.92
2 Mario Lemieux 1985 2006 1.88
3 Mike Bossy 1978 1987 1.5
4 Bobby Orr 1967 1979 1.39
5 Sidney Crosby 2006 2009 1.38
6 Marcel Dionne 1972 1989 1.31
7 Alex Ovechkin 2006 2009 1.28
8 Peter Stastny 1981 1995 1.27
9 Jaromir Jagr 1991 2008 1.26
10 Evgeni Malkin 2007 2009 1.26
11 Peter Forsberg 1995 2008 1.25
12 Phil Esposito 1964 1981 1.24
13 Kent Nilsson 1980 1995 1.24
14 Guy Lafleur 1972 1991 1.2
15 Dale Hawerchuk 1982 1997 1.19
16 Joe Sakic 1989 2009 1.19
17 Pat LaFontaine 1984 1998 1.17
18 Steve Yzerman 1984 2006 1.16
19 Eric Lindros 1993 2007 1.14
20 Bernie Federko 1977 1990 1.13


Last edited by oilerbear: 03-26-2009 at 04:09 PM. Reason: lindros history
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Old
03-26-2009, 04:12 PM
  #25
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lol

I like how you forgot to add Gagner to your proposal.

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