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Knuble may not be a Flyer next year

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Old
03-27-2009, 06:41 PM
  #51
Elliot20
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As a Canuck fan, I wonder if he'd be interested in coming to Vancouver. Vancouver has a lot of cap space and a lot of UFAs coming off the record. Although I am not sure with Gillis' plans, it'd be interesting if he'd offer Knuble a 2 year contract worth around $3.2 million/per year. This is a guy who has a cup ring, is a veteran and can definitely help the rookies out. He is also biga big RW.

I don't catch much Phili games, but how physical is Knuble? Does he score the majority of the goals 10+ feet from the goal, or are they normally tap-ins?

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03-27-2009, 07:00 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
As a Canuck fan, I wonder if he'd be interested in coming to Vancouver. Vancouver has a lot of cap space and a lot of UFAs coming off the record. Although I am not sure with Gillis' plans, it'd be interesting if he'd offer Knuble a 2 year contract worth around $3.2 million/per year. This is a guy who has a cup ring, is a veteran and can definitely help the rookies out. He is also biga big RW.

I don't catch much Phili games, but how physical is Knuble? Does he score the majority of the goals 10+ feet from the goal, or are they normally tap-ins?
He recently described his own scoring touch as "goals on funny bounces." He generally is well-positioned, close to the net, and is a gritty player. He has attributes and is well-liked among his mates and the solid reputation carries over to the media who praise him because win or lose he is generally available.

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03-27-2009, 07:08 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
As a Canuck fan, I wonder if he'd be interested in coming to Vancouver. Vancouver has a lot of cap space and a lot of UFAs coming off the record. Although I am not sure with Gillis' plans, it'd be interesting if he'd offer Knuble a 2 year contract worth around $3.2 million/per year. This is a guy who has a cup ring, is a veteran and can definitely help the rookies out. He is also biga big RW.

I don't catch much Phili games, but how physical is Knuble? Does he score the majority of the goals 10+ feet from the goal, or are they normally tap-ins?
Frankly I can't remember many goals from 5+ feet, let alone ten.

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03-27-2009, 07:14 PM
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absolute grinder with PWF fully injected... keep him we need that type of player... we have enough sniping goal scorers... we need the "gritty" goal scoring of big ol' mikey...

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03-27-2009, 09:43 PM
  #55
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Why can't we trade Jones and Lupul, more specifically, LUPUL.

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03-27-2009, 10:34 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCannon View Post
Why can't we trade Jones and Lupul, more specifically, LUPUL.
Yeah.. Lupul can be good but he is so streaky... other than that he's a lazy turd... I wanna keep Knuble... even after all the knubling this year...

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03-27-2009, 10:38 PM
  #57
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I'm not sure what he's done to make you believe he has any premeditated thoughts about the long-term ramifications of the moves he makes.
Touche, clearly all of us here are more concerned about that.

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03-27-2009, 10:52 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SPARADISO8116 View Post
Since the Isles have all the cap room in the world I wouldn't mind Garth taking a crack at Knuble to help the rebuild along.


Sal
Sorry to say Flyers fans, but this is exactly why I don't think Knuble will be in Philly next year. Teams with the cap space can pay him the money on a one or two year deal knowing that if his production drops, at worst he is probably a serviceable 3rd liner who gets 15 goals and while he would be overpaid in that role that have the room and its not a long term deal.

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03-28-2009, 02:41 AM
  #59
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This is how I feel. I know that many of you wanted Knuble gone at the beginning of the season but we are seeing now just how valuable he is. He works so well with Gagne and he's just such a Flyer at heart. Bring back Knuble, let Lupul go, and biring in JVR to replace HIM.
Two seasons in a row, he's started very slowly and you're left scratching your head or pulling your hair out when he's on the ice. But once he hits his stride you realize his importance. We need that elder statesman who can still play and who has a tremendous work ethic. As frustrating as he can be, I'd be really sad to see him leave this team. Especially if it's over money while the roster is sprinkled with crappy players not earning their contracts.

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Originally Posted by Nazzy-19 View Post
Sorry to say Flyers fans, but this is exactly why I don't think Knuble will be in Philly next year. Teams with the cap space can pay him the money on a one or two year deal knowing that if his production drops, at worst he is probably a serviceable 3rd liner who gets 15 goals and while he would be overpaid in that role that have the room and its not a long term deal.
He's shown serious loyalty to us before - i.e. re-signing in the middle of the year when we were dead last and clearly not going anywhere. I wouldn't rule it out happening again. He clearly loves this organization and is by all indications, a great guy. I'm not sure if I buy the fact he'll chase a few extra thousand to move his family across the continent. I think the Flyers will get something worked out (probably in the form of bonuses) to keep him.

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03-28-2009, 03:03 AM
  #60
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For all of the people who want Knuble over Lupul... c'mon think about it.

Knuble will be 37 years old. He's good at standing in front of the net and cashing in rebounds..that's it. His skating is going down and his 5v5 play is pretty bad. We have enough Vets to replace him in the locker room.

Knuble didn't even score 30 goals until he was 30. Lupul is only 25 and has higher upside. I think next year he explodes kind of like Hartnell this year. Everyone hated that Hartnell contract too...

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03-28-2009, 03:05 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Flyersfan1216 View Post
For all of the people who want Knuble over Lupul... c'mon think about it.

Knuble will be 37 years old. He's good at standing in front of the net and cashing in rebounds..that's it. His skating is going down and his 5v5 play is pretty bad. We have enough Vets to replace him in the locker room.

Knuble didn't even score 30 goals until he was 30. Lupul is only 25 and has higher upside. I think next year he explodes kind of like Hartnell this year. Everyone hated that Hartnell contract too...
Lupul @ 4.25 is absurd.

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03-28-2009, 03:08 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCannon View Post
Lupul @ 4.25 is absurd.
What he said.

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03-28-2009, 03:13 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Flyersfan1216 View Post
For all of the people who want Knuble over Lupul... c'mon think about it.

Knuble will be 37 years old. He's good at standing in front of the net and cashing in rebounds..that's it. His skating is going down and his 5v5 play is pretty bad. We have enough Vets to replace him in the locker room.
I urge you to do the same.

Have you seen what Lupul is making next year? Knuble's status shouldn't affect Lupul's one bit. Lupul's contract is so pathetic for what he brings to this team. No heart. No work ethic. Just hot and cold streaks of offensive ability that Giroux can replace in a heartbeat. Oh yeah, offensive ability that was non-existant this year until he was put on a line with Carter.

Knuble's real value, besides still being one of the best powerplay guys in the league (in front of the net) is his veteran savvy on a team filled with young party guys. He's a great voice in the room, he has a great work ethic that everyone should look up to, he's great with the media, and he still plays on the PK and does a pretty damn good job of it. These are all things you need to consider. I haven't seen any change in his speed since he got there and he's one of the few guys willing to do the dirty work in the trenches.

Contrary to what you said, we don't have enough vets. This team is still frightfully young. We have Timonen, Briere, and Gagne to a lesser extent. None of those guys can replace what Knuble brings. He's the oldest guy on the team, but still manages to be the 5th leading scorer. Yeah that's right. He's outscoring the $4.25M man. He's been nothing but consistant for this team.

Will he start to decline? Absolutely. But I'd rather have a declining Knuble making a couple million and providing a ton of intangibles, than pay Joffrey Lupul a ******** of money to show up when he feels like it.

If we let Knuble walk - fine. That doesn't mean it's ok to pay Lupul such an insane amount of money when he'll be lucky to crack 50 points this year. If he's on the team next season - we're ****ed financially.

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03-28-2009, 03:36 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
If he's on the team next season - we're ****ed financially.
AMEN

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Old
03-28-2009, 10:22 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Two seasons in a row, he's started very slowly and you're left scratching your head or pulling your hair out when he's on the ice. But once he hits his stride you realize his importance. We need that elder statesman who can still play and who has a tremendous work ethic. As frustrating as he can be, I'd be really sad to see him leave this team. Especially if it's over money while the roster is sprinkled with crappy players not earning their contracts.
While I have no problem with having Knuble on the team on a reasonable contract, he remains a player that cannot really play the way this team wants to play through the neutral zone. The interesting thing to consider is that theoretically with the removal of Knuble you're looking at a team that can move ever more into the rush-oriented, speed offense depending on how he is replaced in the lineup. While his loss certainly would/will impact our play around the net and on the PP a bit, to a certain extent the prime minutes he gets throws a bit of a wrench into this team stylistically...

Of course, I also don't think Lupul's contract is that ridiculous for what he brings...it's just a dumb contract for us. I do think there will be someone interested in a guy who you're likely to get at least 25 goals out of, and I wouldn't be shocked to see as a 30+ guy a few times in his career.

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03-28-2009, 11:48 AM
  #66
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Lupul has only ever played hard when he was up for a new contract. His new contract is absurd, especially considering the other young wingers we have in the pipe.

Knuble on the other hand was one of only a couple, maybe the only, player who really looked like he cared during the season from hell. It's really terrible to see him go while we overpay a guy like Lupul.

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03-28-2009, 11:54 AM
  #67
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No one goes into the corners with more purpose then knuble. Who cares how fast he is in the open ice. If knuble plays in the right system where he just needs to get into corners to battle for pucks, cycle it, then sneak in front of the net and bang in rebounds. I can't remember the last time he flew down the wing to score a goal. Leave that up to Carter.

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Old
03-28-2009, 01:44 PM
  #68
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Honestly, I'd rather see Carle gone. He joins the rush way too much. he seems to forget that he is NOT a forward.

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03-28-2009, 01:46 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I urge you to do the same.

Have you seen what Lupul is making next year? Knuble's status shouldn't affect Lupul's one bit. Lupul's contract is so pathetic for what he brings to this team. No heart. No work ethic. Just hot and cold streaks of offensive ability that Giroux can replace in a heartbeat. Oh yeah, offensive ability that was non-existant this year until he was put on a line with Carter.

Knuble's real value, besides still being one of the best powerplay guys in the league (in front of the net) is his veteran savvy on a team filled with young party guys. He's a great voice in the room, he has a great work ethic that everyone should look up to, he's great with the media, and he still plays on the PK and does a pretty damn good job of it. These are all things you need to consider. I haven't seen any change in his speed since he got there and he's one of the few guys willing to do the dirty work in the trenches.

Contrary to what you said, we don't have enough vets. This team is still frightfully young. We have Timonen, Briere, and Gagne to a lesser extent. None of those guys can replace what Knuble brings. He's the oldest guy on the team, but still manages to be the 5th leading scorer. Yeah that's right. He's outscoring the $4.25M man. He's been nothing but consistant for this team.

Will he start to decline? Absolutely. But I'd rather have a declining Knuble making a couple million and providing a ton of intangibles, than pay Joffrey Lupul a ******** of money to show up when he feels like it.

If we let Knuble walk - fine. That doesn't mean it's ok to pay Lupul such an insane amount of money when he'll be lucky to crack 50 points this year. If he's on the team next season - we're ****ed financially.
i like what knuble brings and would hate to lose him but if he wants more then $2MM per year then he has to go, obviously. His market value has been set by guys like nolan, shanny and bertuzzi - 1yr and just under $2MM for 35 + y/o guys that can score 25 goals. even a guy like recchi though not as big can give you similar production.

it's not far fetched to expect guys like richards, hartnell, and coburn start to make the transition to leaders as a guy like knuble moves on especially w/ guys like kimo (former capt), briere (former capt), and gagne still around. Plus, they would likely add another vet to replace knuble either at forward or on d.

as for lupul, where are you gonna find a 25-30 goal scorer, 25 y/o or under, & is a good two-way player? could we use the cap space? sure, but his contract isn't ridiculous - look at others in his age range w/ the same pedigree and see what they make (horton, hartnell, penner, jordan staal, cole, malone - off the top of my head).

two things really threw a monkey wrench into homer's cap plans this year- 1. jones & parent going down for 3 mos at start of season forced him to trade for alberts & carle (improvement over eminger) 2. JVR staying in college. it stalls his development so they don't know if they need to hold on to knuble or if JVR can step in and replace him.

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03-28-2009, 02:14 PM
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as for lupul, where are you gonna find a 25-30 goal scorer, 25 y/o or under, & is a good two-way player? could we use the cap space? sure, but his contract isn't ridiculous - look at others in his age range w/ the same pedigree and see what they make (horton, hartnell, penner, jordan staal, cole, malone - off the top of my head).
Claude Giroux. $821K.

Knuble gives you the same production for half the money and twice the intangibles.

Lupul has to go. His contract next year sticks out like a sore thumb on this team. We're in major financial trouble, we don't have time or the cap space to wait for him to earn that deal. His offensive production, in my opinion, isn't worth $4.25M.

Also, you named a bunch of players who bring things to the table that Lupul doesn't. Most of them are of the power forward variety. Lupul is a soft, one dimensional goal scorer who really doesn't score that much.

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03-28-2009, 02:19 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
i like what knuble brings and would hate to lose him but if he wants more then $2MM per year then he has to go, obviously. His market value has been set by guys like nolan, shanny and bertuzzi - 1yr and just under $2MM for 35 + y/o guys that can score 25 goals. even a guy like recchi though not as big can give you similar production.

it's not far fetched to expect guys like richards, hartnell, and coburn start to make the transition to leaders as a guy like knuble moves on especially w/ guys like kimo (former capt), briere (former capt), and gagne still around. Plus, they would likely add another vet to replace knuble either at forward or on d.

as for lupul, where are you gonna find a 25-30 goal scorer, 25 y/o or under, & is a good two-way player? could we use the cap space? sure, but his contract isn't ridiculous - look at others in his age range w/ the same pedigree and see what they make (horton, hartnell, penner, jordan staal, cole, malone - off the top of my head).

two things really threw a monkey wrench into homer's cap plans this year- 1. jones & parent going down for 3 mos at start of season forced him to trade for alberts & carle (improvement over eminger) 2. JVR staying in college. it stalls his development so they don't know if they need to hold on to knuble or if JVR can step in and replace him.
I would take any of those players over Lupul in a second. Wouldn't even think about it. Erik Cole especially, he is the antithesis of a player like Joffrey Lupul. If they are signed to similar deals, that's a joke.

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03-28-2009, 02:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Claude Giroux. $821K.

Knuble gives you the same production for half the money and twice the intangibles.

Lupul has to go. His contract next year sticks out like a sore thumb on this team. We're in major financial trouble, we don't have time or the cap space to wait for him to earn that deal. His offensive production, in my opinion, isn't worth $4.25M.

Also, you named a bunch of players who bring things to the table that Lupul doesn't. Most of them are of the power forward variety. Lupul is a soft, one dimensional goal scorer who really doesn't score that much.
i must have slept through his 25 goals season?

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03-28-2009, 02:33 PM
  #73
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i must have slept through his 25 goals season?
Are you sleeping through the fact the kid's played 35 NHL games and is already producing points at the same rate as Lupul? Next year he will outscore Lupul - goals, assists, doesn't matter. Bank on it.

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03-28-2009, 02:58 PM
  #74
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I would take any of those players over Lupul in a second. Wouldn't even think about it. Erik Cole especially, he is the antithesis of a player like Joffrey Lupul. If they are signed to similar deals, that's a joke.
i am not saying he is the best of that bunch or the worst but they are the players that have similar numbers, are of similar age range, and had contracts re-newed the same time frame as lupul's so that is his market.

yeah, cole plays like his hair is on fire but at the end of the day he has only hit 30 goals 1 time while playing top line minutes and 1st unit PP.

this isn't a lupul thread so i don't want to turn it into one but the fact is he is paid what the market bares.


Last edited by lancer247: 03-28-2009 at 03:04 PM.
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03-28-2009, 03:03 PM
  #75
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Are you sleeping through the fact the kid's played 35 NHL games and is already producing points at the same rate as Lupul? Next year he will outscore Lupul - goals, assists, doesn't matter. Bank on it.
yeah, and last year lupul was on pace for 40 goals before he was "hatchered"

i look forward to giroux being a 30-40 goal scorer but until he does it what's the point besides he hasn't had a contract come yet and when it does he'll be compensated for it. Lupul and all the players mentioned had contracts come up and that set the market price.

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