HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Congrats to Markov

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-27-2009, 04:24 PM
  #51
King Mapes
Moderator
HF's King
 
King Mapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 23,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I think Markov should definitively get Hart trophy consideration.
You're joking, right?

Oh but congrats to Markov. He's definitely been the bright spot for the Habs this year.


Last edited by King Mapes: 03-27-2009 at 04:32 PM.
King Mapes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 05:10 PM
  #52
number 11
Registered User
 
number 11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,987
vCash: 500
but...but we let souray go so we can sign markov!


number 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 05:22 PM
  #53
jcpenny
Registered User
 
jcpenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kareem View Post
I've talked to 417 before about this, but through pms because this place is like a pack of wolves waiting to pounce on you if they disagree. I've been of the opinion that he plays a lot like Lidstrom for years now and he's at a point where he's ready to take the next step and be that good.

We should always keep in mind this guy started playing defense at 20 years old and like most defensemen, he'll only get better with age. I think that were he put on most other teams this year, he would be at 70 points gunning for 80 and a Norris trophy. He's a tremendous all around player with insane hockey sense.

Just look at guys like Rivet, Souray and Streit. They gave the Habs some awesome hockey but were never close to Markov's level, neither defensively nor offensively. They're not that better now, but the teams fans fell in love with what they can bring. Put Andrei on San Jose, Detroit, Washington or Philly and he'd have an insane amount of points.
You bring pretty good points here especially on that particular point. The problem in Montreal is that they havent put enough emphasis on the play of their defensmen. In MTL, defensmen arent really involved in the offensive game, they havent really put emphasis on the transition game and on top of that, they havent had a defensive coach in a long time!

Gainey is probably the first who really worked with the D. Guys like Rivet, Streit and Souray were undervalued by Habs management because they werent allowed to show what they could do to the fullest of their potential and mostly, they werent allowed to progress. That being said, that says a lot about Markov's talent.

Although he's been on a leash for so long, he still produced. The arrival of Gainey has propeled him into another level it seems. He's finally being used like a Scott Niedermyer, playing 25 mins + a game and allowed to join the offense whenever he feels like it. Thats how Mark Streit should have been used also.

In a few years, there are awsome defensive talents that will compete for a spot in MTL. Guys like Subban, McDonagh, Weber, Torp, Carle are all expected to be NHLers. I hope they get handle better than Markov, Streit, Souray and Rivet. Komisarek is on the verge of being the next wasted talent. He needs a defensive coach and quick. Our next coach better understand the value of defensmen on your team. Carbo obviously didnt, thank God hes gone...

jcpenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 05:26 PM
  #54
montreal
Moderator
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 25,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
I don't think you can give scouting credit for Tanguay and Lang. Everybody and their dog knew that they were real good players.
No offense, but I'm wondering if you read the main boards when we acquired both players. It wasn't as bad on Tanguay as it was Langer, who from the sounds of fans of Hawks/wings and others Lang was total crap, I still remember after Lang's injury, some of said fans were saying the Habs would actually improve without him, funny how the **** hit the fan after we lost Langer.

montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 05:45 PM
  #55
Tortue
Registered User
 
Tortue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 508
vCash: 500
I wonder how Sprague played the game. Maybe Asterix has a little tidbit about his style of play?

Tortue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 05:55 PM
  #56
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,163
vCash: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
You're joking, right?

Oh but congrats to Markov. He's definitely been the bright spot for the Habs this year.
This team would be contending for Tavares without Markov (or more probably finishing 10th). There might be players more worthy of it, but I said "consideration" remember? He's our best player by far, and has been contributing all year, getting points when it counts and still playing well defensively. Stats prove it (most points in the team playing as a defensemen, he logs lots of minutes, he single handedly ensures our PP isn't completely decrepit (most PP points as a Dman in the NHL, even if our PP blows)). If we make the playoffs it will be in large parts because of him. He makes all players on the ice better.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 07:06 PM
  #57
King Mapes
Moderator
HF's King
 
King Mapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 23,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
This team would be contending for Tavares without Markov (or more probably finishing 10th). There might be players more worthy of it, but I said "consideration" remember? He's our best player by far, and has been contributing all year, getting points when it counts and still playing well defensively. Stats prove it (most points in the team playing as a defensemen, he logs lots of minutes, he single handedly ensures our PP isn't completely decrepit (most PP points as a Dman in the NHL, even if our PP blows)). If we make the playoffs it will be in large parts because of him. He makes all players on the ice better.

He may be the MVP of your team but he wouldn't get consideration for the league. Malkin, Sid, Ovechkin, Mason, Chara, Parise all go before him, just off the top of my head.

King Mapes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 07:27 PM
  #58
Quiet Robert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortue View Post
I wonder how Sprague played the game. Maybe Asterix has a little tidbit about his style of play?
He was one of the meanest, nastiest players to ever play in the NHL.

From legends of hockey:

Quote:
After he attacked Ottawa defenseman Lionel Hitchman in the 1923 playoffs, Cleghorn was suspended by team owner Leo Dandurand, who described his player's actions as "befitting an animal."
From Joe Pelletier's site:

Quote:
Cleghorn was very upset with Ottawa for letting him go, and was determined to get revenge the only way he knew how...

He would go on to viciously injure 4 Senator players - Cy Denneny, Frank Nighbor, Tommy Gorman and Eddie Gerard. Cleghorn's disgraceful conduct in resulted police action and even league movement to ban him from the NHL for life. Reportedly two teams would not agree to the ban.
I heard him described as the dirtiest player in the dirtiest era in NHL history.

So I don't think you could find two more different players than Cleghorn and Markov, which makes it interesting they both accomplished the same thing.

Quiet Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 07:49 PM
  #59
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
He may be the MVP of your team but he wouldn't get consideration for the league. Malkin, Sid, Ovechkin, Mason, Chara, Parise all go before him, just off the top of my head.
Not that I think Markov would win the Hart but for the sake of discussion, the Hart is supposed to be most valuable to their team. Of the list you mentioned only Parise and Mason best fit the description. The other guys are surrounded by star players that are having great years. Sid has Malkin and vice versa, Ovechkin has Semin, Backstrom, Green etc, Chara has Widemen, Savard, Thomas.

Who on the Habs is having a great season other than Markov? If not for him we would be dead in the water, he should get some votes. Malkin or Ovy wins it this year though.

11Goat11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 07:53 PM
  #60
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,163
vCash: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
He may be the MVP of your team but he wouldn't get consideration for the league. Malkin, Sid, Ovechkin, Mason, Chara, Parise all go before him, just off the top of my head.
Malkin and Sid? The fact that they are both in the same team doesn't help them in this case. Ovechkin deserves it, but in his case theres also Semin and Green that can help carry the burden. Chara obviously is a good candidate, but on a team that sits first in the conference with excellent depth at all positions. Parise I agree is a stud, however is he really carrying NJ? They have other good veterans. I don't want to diminish their respective accomplishments and their values for their team, one of them will probably win the trophy anyways, but to dismiss Markov from this group is ridiculous.

Consider Komisarek (who's play is only decent when he's paired with Markov, he absolutely stunk this year when plaired with others), Hamrlik's struggles, Brisebois' mind boggling defensive lapses, Bouillon's vertically challenged status and injuries and Schneider's age I think its quite safe to say our defense relies on Markov entirely. Did I mention Price's struggles and injuries in all this? Or the fact that, as someone pointed out, Markov has more assists than all of our players have points except Kovalev (who has 52 points, Markov has 50 assists)? Of our key players Markov is the only one meeting (in his case exceeding) expectations this year. Its not exaggeration to say we might have 5 to 10 less wins if some average player replaced him. In fact, this might be a conservative number seeing how most of our clutch 3rd period goals are assisted (or even scored) by him.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 10:06 PM
  #61
LouisJCloutier
Registered User
 
LouisJCloutier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gaspésie
Country: Canada
Posts: 718
vCash: 500
Markov is such an underrated player around the league.

Right now, he's a top5 defensenman in this league. Excellent play vision, good hockey sense, terrific passer, consistent, solid in his own zone with a wonderful first pass and a nice little physic presence on the ice.

That guy deserve more recognition, since I'm following the Habs he's the only player that got better and better with every season.

5,25mil per year for a defenseman like that is a very good bargain IMO.

I'm definetly putting him ahead of the like of Bouwmeester, Campbell and Boyle...

LouisJCloutier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2009, 10:15 PM
  #62
Redux91
I do Three bullets.
 
Redux91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,938
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Redux91 Send a message via MSN to Redux91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
We don't even have a 25 goal scorer and Markov, a defenseman, has 50 assists in 74 games. What a beauty.
that, is truly what people are looking at, the SPREAD, the people voting for the norris will consider him for SURE, i just dont know if he will win it, but being nominated is an honor in itself with all the great D out there always battling for it

Lidstrom
Chara
Markov

couldnt tell you who wins

Redux91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2009, 07:08 AM
  #63
peperebougon*
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,151
vCash: 500
Markov is overrated




...And let's clone the Cleghorn bros.


Last edited by peperebougon*: 03-28-2009 at 07:17 AM.
peperebougon* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2009, 12:15 PM
  #64
R4lph B4ckstrom
Registered User
 
R4lph B4ckstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Montréal
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'abstrait View Post
You forgot to mention that his brother Odie Cleghorn (RW) was tied with Sprague with 24 pts but with one less game played!
Well, no.

Sprague = 24 games, 17 goals, 9 assists : 26pts (80 pim!)
Odie = 23 games, 21 goals, 3 assists : 24 pts (26 pim)

R4lph B4ckstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2009, 01:09 PM
  #65
King Mapes
Moderator
HF's King
 
King Mapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 23,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Malkin and Sid? The fact that they are both in the same team doesn't help them in this case. Ovechkin deserves it, but in his case theres also Semin and Green that can help carry the burden. Chara obviously is a good candidate, but on a team that sits first in the conference with excellent depth at all positions. Parise I agree is a stud, however is he really carrying NJ? They have other good veterans. I don't want to diminish their respective accomplishments and their values for their team, one of them will probably win the trophy anyways, but to dismiss Markov from this group is ridiculous.

Consider Komisarek (who's play is only decent when he's paired with Markov, he absolutely stunk this year when plaired with others), Hamrlik's struggles, Brisebois' mind boggling defensive lapses, Bouillon's vertically challenged status and injuries and Schneider's age I think its quite safe to say our defense relies on Markov entirely. Did I mention Price's struggles and injuries in all this? Or the fact that, as someone pointed out, Markov has more assists than all of our players have points except Kovalev (who has 52 points, Markov has 50 assists)? Of our key players Markov is the only one meeting (in his case exceeding) expectations this year. Its not exaggeration to say we might have 5 to 10 less wins if some average player replaced him. In fact, this might be a conservative number seeing how most of our clutch 3rd period goals are assisted (or even scored) by him.

Oh without Markov you guys wouldn't be battling for 8th, you'd be battling for a top 10 pick. But I doubt he's the MVP in the league. I mentioned BOTH Malkin and Crosby because without 1 of them where is Pittsburgh? Without Malkin this year would be way out of the playoffs and without Sid would probably be 10th.

King Mapes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2009, 02:30 PM
  #66
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortue View Post
I wonder how Sprague played the game. Maybe Asterix has a little tidbit about his style of play?
didn't Asterix coach and captain that team?

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2009, 03:43 PM
  #67
Turboflex*
 
Turboflex*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Malkin and Sid? The fact that they are both in the same team doesn't help them in this case. Ovechkin deserves it, but in his case theres also Semin and Green that can help carry the burden. Chara obviously is a good candidate, but on a team that sits first in the conference with excellent depth at all positions. Parise I agree is a stud, however is he really carrying NJ? They have other good veterans. I don't want to diminish their respective accomplishments and their values for their team, one of them will probably win the trophy anyways, but to dismiss Markov from this group is ridiculous.
By the true MVP definition of "player adjudged most valuable to his team", which means of course relative to all others on said team, Markov was far and away a standout on the habs.

This is a fine point though and a lot of people don't get it, even the journalists who vote. Most people just seem to think the criteria is "best player on a top team".

Chara, Parise, Ovechkin, Sidney and Malkin are great, but all have other fantastic players backing them up (Thomas/Savard/Overall depth, Elias/Brodeur, Semin/Greene/Backstrom, each other).

The relative value of guys like Markov are much higher. To that I would add a guy like Getzlaf, or some of these amazing goalies who have basically carried their team into the playoffs (or close to): Vokoun, Mason, Backstrom, Rinne.

Turboflex* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.