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If the Isles land the #2 overall pick

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Old
03-29-2009, 07:43 AM
  #26
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzo View Post
When the Isles traded it and Chara for the RFA rights to a certain Russian center.
That certain Russian center was under 30 and coming off a 90+ pt season when the trade was made.

I don't think anyone thought that 2nd overall pick was worthless.

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03-29-2009, 08:00 AM
  #27
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coburn-09 flyers 1st- pick/prospect/another player


parent-lupul-09 1st

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03-29-2009, 08:38 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
coburn-09 flyers 1st- pick/prospect/another player


parent-lupul-09 1st
I just want you to think through this.

Coburn has proven to be a top 2 defenseman, and on his worst day he is an excellent 3-4. Then factor in a first round pick in a very deep draft. The pick/prospect/or player is kind of moot, because with the 2 peices before it, it would have to be a low pick or a mediocre prospect.

Parent has the makings of a top line defensman, but is probably a great 3-4 defenseman who plays a solid all around game. Lupul, who has scored 20+ goals 3/5 NHL seasons. Then, like I have said before, a first round pick in a very deep draft.

Do either one of those sound like fair value for a player who hasn't even stepped foot in an NHL team's locker room, and has proven absolutely nothing as far as what kind of pro they are going to be?

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03-29-2009, 09:06 AM
  #29
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Coburn has proven to be a top 2 defenseman, and on his worst day he is an excellent 3-4. Then factor in a first round pick in a very deep draft. The pick/prospect/or player is kind of moot, because with the 2 peices before it, it would have to be a low pick or a mediocre prospect.
That 1st rounder is going to be a very late one.The isles already have 2 first rounders and 3 seconder rounders,so losing the 1st or 2nd overall for another late 1st rounder,has zero appeal.

Quote:
Parent has the makings of a top line defensman, but is probably a great 3-4 defenseman who plays a solid all around game.

Youngsters Gervais and Hillen are both playing well in Gordon's system.

Isles are calling Hamonic a poor man's Luke Schenn,saying his upside is a #2 or #3 defensemen.Throw in Niemi,Ness and MacDonald and the Isles would probably prefer to keep developing their own kids, instead of moving their high 1st for another unproven prospect.

Quote:
Lupul, who has scored 20+ goals 3/5 NHL seasons. Then, like I have said before, a first round pick in a very deep draf
Yeah, Lupul would immediately become the isles top lw.Is his 25 goals a yr,worth losing a potential franchise player though?Not imo.
At most I think the isles would move a high 2nd and good prospect or their late 1st for Lupul if they thought they were gonna be completely shut out of the ufa market or if they went with Hedman instead of Tavares the scorer.

Lupul's $4m+ salary would limit Philly's trade partners.We saw at the trade deadline that teams's don't want to spend in this financial climate.

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03-29-2009, 09:53 AM
  #30
Andre Benoit Bawls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzo View Post
When the Isles traded it and Chara for the RFA rights to a certain Russian center.
And Bill Muckalt!!

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03-29-2009, 10:34 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
That 1st rounder is going to be a very late one.The isles already have 2 first rounders and 3 seconder rounders,so losing the 1st or 2nd overall for another late 1st rounder,has zero appeal.




Youngsters Gervais and Hillen are both playing well in Gordon's system.

Isles are calling Hamonic a poor man's Luke Schenn,saying his upside is a #2 or #3 defensemen.Throw in Niemi,Ness and MacDonald and the Isles would probably prefer to keep developing their own kids, instead of moving their high 1st for another unproven prospect.



Yeah, Lupul would immediately become the isles top lw.Is his 25 goals a yr,worth losing a potential franchise player though?Not imo.
At most I think the isles would move a high 2nd and good prospect or their late 1st for Lupul if they thought they were gonna be completely shut out of the ufa market or if they went with Hedman instead of Tavares the scorer.

Lupul's $4m+ salary would limit Philly's trade partners.We saw at the trade deadline that teams's don't want to spend in this financial climate.
I'm not real sure what you are trying to say. I am for the Isles keeping the pick and taking whomever is left after 1.

All I'm saying is the overrating of draft picks is crazy. That was the whole point.

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03-29-2009, 10:47 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
If the Isles draft second overall this June, they should...choose the Best Player Available. Period.

Same if they draft first.

No need to get cute. You will be getting a superb talent at either position. (As well, at the third spot and beyond, for that matter).

Organizationally speaking, Isles need top-end talent up front, they need top-end talent on the backline. And, frankly, drafting based on your current NHL roster strenghts and deficiencies - even when talking about top-of-the-draft talent - is short-sighted.

BPA. Period.
The Islanders are unenviable in that they are one of the FEW teams that need top end talent in EVERY SINGLE position.

And that includes goalie.

If they moved out of the 2nd overall pick, somehow (if they got it), than it would be a very, very bad move.

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Old
03-29-2009, 10:48 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
Just draft Hedman. When was the last time HAVING the 2nd overall pick was worthless?
Pat Falloon

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Old
03-29-2009, 10:49 AM
  #34
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Good luck getting an organization to trade their top D prospect and a 2nd simply to move up 1-2 spot.

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03-29-2009, 10:59 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I'm not real sure what you are trying to say. I am for the Isles keeping the pick and taking whomever is left after 1.

All I'm saying is the overrating of draft picks is crazy. That was the whole point.

You pointed out the value of Lupul,Coburn or Parent and the late 1st.With 3 picks in the first 31-33 picks,no real interest in moving down from 1st-2nd overall to 25th-30th( flyer 1st).

I agreed that Coburn and Parent are quality youngsters,that Lupul's an established 50 pt player.

But the isles have a couple of young defensemen at the nhl level,who are starting to produce and a few intriguing defensive prospects in the pipeline.No interest in passing up a chance at Tavraes/Hedman for a 50 pt forward and young defenseman.

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Old
03-29-2009, 11:26 AM
  #36
Chapin Landvogt
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Playing with possible trade scenarios is a fun, fun thing to do as a hockey fan.

I can't imagine any team in its right mind picking 1 or 2 this summer would trade that pick UNLESS an offer of incredible, incredible overpayment were to come along. Just looking at other teams likely picking in the top 10-12, much less after that, I don't see too many teams are out there who'd be ready to make such an overpayment. If I had to take a jab at one team who has the picks and system prospect depth + the existential questions that'd make it willing to possibly make an offer of overpayment to grab that 1st or 2nd pick, it'd prolly be Phoenix.

The likelihood is still very low.

Now, after last summer, Islander fans and hockey fans alike are justified in contemplating a situation where the Islanders would indeed be willing to move down (in this case, from 2 to 3 or 4) if their scouts are absolutely convinced of a certain player ahead of Hedman/Tavares for the Islanders - Duchene comes to mind - which would of course put their staff in further conflict with the assessments of the scouting world on whole. It would of course depend on what else the other team(s) offer.

The chances are though, that the teams picking 1 and 2 are gonna get a lot of phone calls.

Should we see the following pick order
1) COL
2) NYI
3) TB
then I can certainly imagine that Lawton will have a nice, long conversation with Snow.

At the end of the day, I'm expecting that Tavares will probably go first, Hedman 2nd and Duchene 3rd - and that these picks will be made by the teams designated 1, 2, 3 by the Draft Lottery.

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03-29-2009, 11:45 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The Islanders are unenviable in that they are one of the FEW teams that need top end talent in EVERY SINGLE position.

And that includes goalie.

If they moved out of the 2nd overall pick, somehow (if they got it), than it would be a very, very bad move.

There is only one commodity that the Isles don't need: gnat sized dmen who can skate. Sadly, we're lousy with those sort of players - even after moving off the best of the lot (Campoli). Otherwere, you name the role, and the Isles need help.

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03-29-2009, 11:54 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Playing with possible trade scenarios is a fun, fun thing to do as a hockey fan.

I can't imagine any team in its right mind picking 1 or 2 this summer would trade that pick UNLESS an offer of incredible, incredible overpayment were to come along. Just looking at other teams likely picking in the top 10-12, much less after that, I don't see too many teams are out there who'd be ready to make such an overpayment. If I had to take a jab at one team who has the picks and system prospect depth + the existential questions that'd make it willing to possibly make an offer of overpayment to grab that 1st or 2nd pick, it'd prolly be Phoenix.

The likelihood is still very low.

Now, after last summer, Islander fans and hockey fans alike are justified in contemplating a situation where the Islanders would indeed be willing to move down (in this case, from 2 to 3 or 4) if their scouts are absolutely convinced of a certain player ahead of Hedman/Tavares for the Islanders - Duchene comes to mind - which would of course put their staff in further conflict with the assessments of the scouting world on whole. It would of course depend on what else the other team(s) offer.

The chances are though, that the teams picking 1 and 2 are gonna get a lot of phone calls.

Should we see the following pick order
1) COL
2) NYI
3) TB
then I can certainly imagine that Lawton will have a nice, long conversation with Snow.

At the end of the day, I'm expecting that Tavares will probably go first, Hedman 2nd and Duchene 3rd - and that these picks will be made by the teams designated 1, 2, 3 by the Draft Lottery.

According to Botta, there is a good chance Hedman goes #1 overall:

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2...u-might-think/

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Old
03-29-2009, 11:56 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
There is only one commodity that the Isles don't need: gnat sized dmen who can skate. Sadly, we're lousy with those sort of players - even after moving off the best of the lot (Campoli). Otherwere, you name the role, and the Isles need help.
I wouldn't say we're lousy with them (if you mean from a developmental standpoint) .... just, we've already got enough in the system.

Hillen is the only one on the Island right now and heck, he's technically only a rookie, so the growing pains that come with gathering NHL experience would have to be expected for him as much as any rookie who may be bigger.

True though that Ness and Katic are probably our two best defensive prospects in the system and both are undersized.

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03-29-2009, 12:02 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
I wouldn't say we're lousy with them (if you mean from a developmental standpoint) .... just, we've already got enough in the system.

Hillen is the only one on the Island right now and heck, he's technically only a rookie, so the growing pains that come with gathering NHL experience would have to be expected for him as much as any rookie who may be bigger.

True though that Ness and Katic are probably our two best defensive prospects in the system and both are undersized.
Don't forget Gervais, Martinek, and the Meyer the IVVVIVVXX. Heck, even Streit isn't all that big.

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03-29-2009, 12:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
According to Botta, there is a good chance Hedman goes #1 overall:

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2...u-might-think/
Certainly a possibility, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Islander scouting staff have Hedman ahead of Tavares.

Then again, it seems to me that if anyone has the impression that Tavares is the clear cut favorite, he/she got it from reading a lot of fanboards. Articles and rankings (Red Line, ISS, etc.) seem too have Tavares ahead in what is a tight race.

Botta's supported this as well:
>>>
Point Blank asked the scouts two questions:
1. Who would you draft first overall in June - John Tavares or Victor Hedman?

2. Of the 30 NHL teams, how many would you estimate have John Tavares No. 1 on their draft lists?

The results of this admittedly unscientific poll:
1. Of the 12 scouts, 7 said they would take Tavares and 5 selected Hedman. In each case, there was no deliberation. None of the scouts said they needed more time to watch them play.

2. The 12 scouts polled all predicted Tavares would be tops on 15-20 team lists. One scout told us “No more than 15.” Another replied, “No more than 20.”
<<<

So the slight majority of these 12 scouts is still leaning towards Tavares.

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03-29-2009, 12:12 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Don't forget Gervais, Martinek, and the Meyer the IVVVIVVXX. Heck, even Streit isn't all that big.
Forgot about Meyer.... out of sight, out of mind I guess. Hasn't played in like forever, so I guess I was still somewhat accurate in writing "Hillen is the only one on the Island right now".

Didn't mention Gervais (6'1", 205), Martinek (6'1", 203) and Streit (6'0", 197) because you had used the term "gnat-sized" and these three do at least feature average size.

Other than Sutton (6'6", 245), who it seems like we've seen little of over two seasons, we certainly don't have any redwoods on that blueline.

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03-29-2009, 12:38 PM
  #43
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The Islanders would be fools not to pick Hedman if they had the 2nd pick in the draft. While there is a lot of talent in this year's draft, Tavares and Hedman are the percieved top 2 and I see them going in that order on draft day no matter the teams picking in those spots.

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03-29-2009, 12:45 PM
  #44
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If the Isles land the 2nd overall pick..

In my opinion, which is worthless, I think the thing the Isles need most in the draft is a top notch forward that can play on the level of Okposo/Bailey.. if we land the 2nd pick, and the price of moving up a slot for Tavares is too high.. Should we move out of the 2nd pick since Hedman’s stock is so high??..Here me out… I got two scenarios for you… please tell me your opinion on both:
Option1: move down one or two slots give up the 2nd overall for either the third or fourth pick. Take the best forward available with that pick (Duchene, Kane)plus that teams top defensive prospect in their system, and that teams #2 pick in 09….. we get a top forward to play with Okposo/Bailey, a real good defensive prospect (obviously a few notches down from Hedman), and a high 2nd round pick…

Option #2 move down from the 2nd pick to the 9th or 10th overall and grab Jordan Schroeder, plus that teams best defensive prspect like the first scenario. The only difference is since we are moving down alot further, we take that teams 2010 first rounder instead of an 09 second rounder… Both these scenarios get us a top skilled forward and very solid defensive prospect, along with a draft pick…. Does this make sense??
Am I over or under rating the 2nd pick??
Having the 2nd pick in this draft is much better than having the #1 pick in most drafts. Victor Hedman is a talent that comes along once a generation and would have incredibly high trade value. I'd keep the pick and draft a future franchise cornerstone.

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03-29-2009, 01:58 PM
  #45
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Coyotes would be interested in that pick. With so many prospects they could keep their #1 pick and maybe move Mueller instead. Nick Ross, IMHO, could make the jump to the NHL next season. And with so many depth players they could throw in a couple to fill holes in the Isles' roster...

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03-29-2009, 01:58 PM
  #46
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Coyotes would be interested in that pick. With so many prospects they could keep their #1 pick and maybe move Mueller instead. Nick Ross, IMHO, could make the jump to the NHL next season. And with so many depth players they could throw in a couple to fill holes in the Isles' roster...
The Coyotes would have not shot at that pick, even if it were even available, without moving their own pick.


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03-29-2009, 02:01 PM
  #47
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I think the isles are still at a spot where they need the BPA at all positions. If they dont like hedman that much, they might move down and try to get duchene/schenn/cowen/mps/kane and another asset, but i doubt they think that low of hedman.

The isles have their 1st (1-5), SJ 1st (26-30), their 2nd (31-35), toronto
s 2nd (33-38), boston 2nd (55-61), and their own 3rd (62-66). Thats a whole lot of early picks. If anything, i expect the isles to try to package picks for players or higher picks.

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03-29-2009, 02:06 PM
  #48
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I think the isles are still at a spot where they need the BPA at all positions. If they dont like hedman that much, they might move down and try to get duchene/schenn/cowen/mps/kane and another asset, but i doubt they think that low of hedman.

The isles have their 1st (1-5), SJ 1st (26-30), their 2nd (31-35), toronto
s 2nd (33-38), boston 2nd (55-61), and their own 3rd (62-66). Thats a whole lot of early picks. If anything, i expect the isles to try to package picks for players or higher picks.
We also have Pitt's 4th, which becomes a third if they make the second round of the PO's.

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03-29-2009, 02:21 PM
  #49
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The Coyotes would have not shot at that pick, even if it were even available, without moving their own pick.
so the Isles only want picks and not NHL players???

Mueller instead of the 1st???

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03-29-2009, 02:29 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
Option1: move down one or two slots give up the 2nd overall for either the third or fourth pick. Take the best forward available with that pick (Duchene, Kane)plus that teams top defensive prospect in their system, and that teams #2 pick in 09….. we get a top forward to play with Okposo/Bailey, a real good defensive prospect (obviously a few notches down from Hedman), and a high 2nd round pick…
OK, I know there's several problems with your argument, but here's something that jumped out at me.

Any team with a pick in this range willing to move up and pick Hedman most likely does not have a high-end defensive prospect that would make up the gap between him and the next BPA.

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