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Florida - Edmonton

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:03 PM
  #1
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Florida - Edmonton

*Assuming Florida cannot sign Bouwmeester*

To Florida:

One of Gilbert/Visnovsky/Souray/Grebeshkov + Shawn Horcoff

To Edmonton:

Rights to Jay Bouwmeester + David Booth

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:12 PM
  #2
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Old
03-30-2009, 07:19 PM
  #3
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lmao.

Panthers get badly ripped off.

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:26 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
lmao.

Panthers get badly ripped off.
Really?

The first sentence in my posts says *assuming Florida cannot sign Bouwmeester*

So it's basically Visnovsky, who is around the 20th best defensemen in the league + Horcoff, who is around the 35th best center in the league for David Booth.

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:27 PM
  #5
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Panthers wont do it because David Booth is a fan favorite there. + cap wouldnt work for Florida.

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:30 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
Really?

The first sentence in my posts says *assuming Florida cannot sign Bouwmeester*

So it's basically Visnovsky, who is around the 20th best defensemen in the league + Horcoff, who is around the 35th best center in the league for David Booth.
In what league? The AHL?

I think if you sent them Souray and your 1st, you could get Jay Bouwmeester no doubt. Booth is a stretch, sorry to say.


Last edited by Saren: 03-30-2009 at 07:36 PM.
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Old
03-30-2009, 07:40 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
Really?

The first sentence in my posts says *assuming Florida cannot sign Bouwmeester*

So it's basically Visnovsky, who is around the 20th best defensemen in the league + Horcoff, who is around the 35th best center in the league for David Booth.
Maybe "lmao" was not a good preface to that post.

I honestly believe that Booth is untouchable in Florida barring huge overpayment.

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:47 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Maybe "lmao" was not a good preface to that post.

I honestly believe that Booth is untouchable in Florida barring huge overpayment.
Fair enough.

In all honestly I'd like to dump Horcoff and he'd probably be more appealing to Jacques Martin than most GM's.

By the sounds of it Bouwmeester is going to sign in Edmonton in the off-season anyways.

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:47 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
Really?

The first sentence in my posts says *assuming Florida cannot sign Bouwmeester*

So it's basically Visnovsky, who is around the 20th best defensemen in the league + Horcoff, who is around the 35th best center in the league for David Booth.
and this is based on.....?

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:55 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
lmao.

Panthers get badly ripped off.
Really? Or JBo walks for nothing....

I don't think its a deal that would happen, but FLA getting "ripped" by not taking Souray/Visnovsky, for Booth is a little crazy....




Please take Horcoff though....please!!! Im not begging......please......

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:07 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
In what league? The AHL?

I think if you sent them Souray and your 1st, you could get Jay Bouwmeester no doubt. Booth is a stretch, sorry to say.
Points?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app?service=p...rt=points&pg=2

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:08 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Jersey Devils View Post
and this is based on.....?
Common sense more than anything.

Stats; quality of competition certainly play a factor as well.

Lubomir Visnovsky is tied for 15th among defensemen for points per game.

In 2007 he the 8th most points among defensemen.

In 2008 he was 4th most points among defensemen.

He was averaging 23 minutes a night before he we went to to injury.

You'd have to be pretty dumb/ignorant to suggest Visnovsky being the 20th best defensemen in the league is a stretch.

Shawn Horcoff:

He ranks 36th in the league among centers in points.

Last year he finished 17th among centers in points per game.

He's played the 4th most minutes among centers this year.

Horcoff has taken more draws then any other player in the league and still has a 53.6% rating. Most of those draws have been in the defensive zone.

You think Cogliano or Gagner is having to go up against tough opposition?

I'm not a Horcoff fan but he's been thrown to the wolves this year after Edmonton dealt Reasoner and Stoll last year and decided not to replace them.

So we know 3 things:

1. Horcoff has been thrown to the wolves this year,

2. He still has the 36th most points among centers this year

3. Fans are still ignorant enough to suggest that calling him the 35th best center in the league is a stretch.

HF really is becoming pathetic these days...

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:09 PM
  #13
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Ahhhh ,no. Booth is not going anywhere.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:17 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
Common sense more than anything.

Stats; quality of competition certainly play a factor as well.

Lubomir Visnovsky is tied for 15th among defensemen for points per game.

In 2007 he the 8th most points among defensemen.

In 2008 he was 4th most points among defensemen.

He was averaging 23 minutes a night before he we went to to injury.

You'd have to be pretty dumb/ignorant to suggest Visnovsky being the 20th best defensemen in the league is a stretch.

Shawn Horcoff:

He ranks 36th in the league among centers in points.

Last year he finished 17th among centers in points per game.

He's played the 4th most minutes among centers this year.

Horcoff has taken more draws then any other player in the league and still has a 53.6% rating. Most of those draws have been in the defensive zone.

You think Cogliano or Gagner is having to go up against tough opposition?

I'm not a Horcoff fan but he's been thrown to the wolves this year after Edmonton dealt Reasoner and Stoll last year and decided not to replace them.

So we know 3 things:

1. Horcoff has been thrown to the wolves this year,

2. He still has the 36th most points among centers this year

3. Fans are still ignorant enough to suggest that calling him the 35th best center in the league is a stretch.

HF really is becoming pathetic these days...
I'll agree with you that Horcoff is a decent player, and calling him the 35th best center isn't a stretch. If the Panthers could fit him under the cap, not sure about his numbers, it wouldn't be a bad team for him as they lack a center who can, along with Weiss, play top minutes and take face-offs. However, they don't need to trade Booth, or even Horton to get one.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:24 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Ah yes, because, as is so obviously obvious, points are clearly the defining factor as to which players may only be compared too - if they (as in, players) don't have a surplus of points, their value is little to nothing.

Bravo to you, my friend, for completely nullifying my argument.

After all,

'points' cover the man on the powerplay
'points' back check ferociously
'points' cause turnovers
'points' keep the pressure on the forecheck
'points' clear the crease
'points' park in front of the net hoping to catch a deflection from a shot from the point
'points' keep playing until 60 minutes are up


Seriously? Are we using the points argument again?

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:25 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
Fair enough.

In all honestly I'd like to dump Horcoff and he'd probably be more appealing to Jacques Martin than most GM's.

By the sounds of it Bouwmeester is going to sign in Edmonton in the off-season anyways.
Really? Cause Vancouver and Calgary sound like favorites, too...by the sound of everyone chiming in with their hopes mostly.

You want to "get rid of Horcoff" and you apparently think Martin is dumb enough to trade Booth for him and another defenseman? Orrrr...Martin hangs onto Booth, moves Bouw for picks or prospects and either uses those for the team or in a trade for another defenseman. Or...he can re-sign Skrastins and go with Ballard-Allen-McCabe-Skrastins-Eminger-Ellerby-Garrison or he can leave the last two in the Rochester and sign and FA defenseman.

Booth's not going to be moved, especially not because you want to get rid of someone and think Martin would take him. JM's not a dumb GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBleedOil247 View Post
Really? Or JBo walks for nothing....

I don't think its a deal that would happen, but FLA getting "ripped" by not taking Souray/Visnovsky, for Booth is a little crazy....


Please take Horcoff though....please!!! Im not begging......please......
Florida has more need at forward, than they do at defense. It' would be very stupid to move Booth, who's had career highs this season in nearly every category, at all. Not going to happen.

Orrrr...Florida can move him for picks or prospects. I'll lose Bouw for nothing and hang onto the perennial motor going at max RPMs.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:35 PM
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First off, as Oilers fan, I don't like the idea of giving up Visnovsky for the rights of Bouwmeester, even if he signed so I would like to take him off the list. Second off, never mind the fact that Booth is a fan favourite, I think Panthers taking that much salary is a NO GO for them to begin with. You could take Booth out and replace him with someone else, I still think they would pass because of the salary.

Horton is the number 1 center. Would they want to pay Horcoff as the number 2?

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
JM's not a dumb GM
He's going to lose his best asset for 20 cents on the dollar (I wouldn't expect a huge return for his rights.)

He also locked up the 6 point Olesz to 3.125 per.

He's not exactly one of the best in the business.

But I wasn't signaling out JM because he's dumb. I suggest him because his adoration for 2-way defensive first players like Horcoff.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:41 PM
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It should also be mentioned that it's going to take around 5 million to keep Booth in Florida.

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03-30-2009, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
He's going to lose his best asset for 20 cents on the dollar (I wouldn't expect a huge return for his rights.)

He also locked up the 6 point Olesz to 3.125 per.

He's not exactly one of the best in the business.

But I wasn't signaling out JM because he's dumb. I suggest him because his adoration for 2-way defensive first players like Horcoff.
You picked out two things, one of which was his desire to try to hold onto his best defenseman, the other may or may not be a mistake. Olesz has been injured most of this season.

You're forgetting Olli for Ballard, Boynton, and a pick (Robak).
Van Ryn for McCabe and a pick.
Salei for Skrastins and a 3rd.
Gratton for a 2nd (Markstrom).
Picks for a much needed Vokoun.
An injured Bertuzzi for 2 picks (that were part of the Vokoun trade) and Matthias.


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Old
03-30-2009, 08:49 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
It should also be mentioned that it's going to take around 5 million to keep Booth in Florida.
Based on what?

That would be surprising considering what Horton and Weiss signed for, however, that wouldn't stop Florida from keeping him.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:51 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
Ah yes, because, as is so obviously obvious, points are clearly the defining factor as to which players may only be compared too - if they (as in, players) don't have a surplus of points, their value is little to nothing.

Bravo to you, my friend, for completely nullifying my argument.

After all,

'points' cover the man on the powerplay
'points' back check ferociously
'points' cause turnovers
'points' keep the pressure on the forecheck
'points' clear the crease
'points' park in front of the net hoping to catch a deflection from a shot from the point
'points' keep playing until 60 minutes are up


Seriously? Are we using the points argument again?
Why don't you take a look above your own post for reasons on why Lube has been far and away our best Dman this season and easily in the top 20.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:54 PM
  #23
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Well--if the panthers can not sign Jboy--I think the oilers would wait till july 1st.

The players are a sever over payment for just Booth

One of Gilbert/Visnovsky/Souray/Grebeshkov + Shawn Horcoff

for Booth??

And there is no gureentee the oilers could sign Jboy

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:54 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
You picked out two things, one of which was his desire to try to hold onto his best defenseman, the other may or may not be a mistake. Olesz has been injured most of this season.

You're forgetting Olli for Ballard, Boynton, and a pick (Robak).
Van Ryn for McCabe and a pick.
Salei for Skrastins and a 3rd.
Gratton for a 2nd (Markstrom).
Picks for a much needed Vokoun.
An injured Bertuzzi for 2 picks (that were part of the Vokoun trade) and Matthias.

Gratton for a 2nd and Matthias for Bertuzzi were good.. not a fan of the other deals though.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:59 PM
  #25
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Visnovsky and Souray both have NMC/NTCs. Therefore it'd have to be Gilbert/Grebeshkov. Most likely Gilbert due to cap reasons.

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