I wouldn't call it favoring. The Flyers are generally a dumb team who take a lot of penalties, some times bad calls, but they're not the only ones who get screwed.
I deal with them every game. All the people who say "it's a penalty because we wear orange" and have to explain to everyone how Ryan Parent cross checking someone in the numbers is a routine call in the league.
I wouldn't call it favoring. The Flyers are generally a dumb team who take a lot of penalties, some times bad calls, but they're not the only ones who get screwed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonMTG
I wouldn't go as far as to say there's an elaborate conspiracy to screw us over, but to say there is no bias whatsoever would be EXTREMELY naive.
I think a combination of these two factors is at work. The Flyers are definitely prone to take penalties, the majority of the time I agree with, or at least recognize, what the ref has seen.
That said, a bias does seem to manifest itself from time to time. And I think it comes through most clearly on non-calls against the other team.
I don't have a problem with the penalties called on the Flyers. They play the type of game that is going to earn calls. It's a good thing the PK is so good, or this style of play would really hurt the team.
UseYourAllusion is right - it's the non-calls on the opposing teams that is frustrating.
I think that just shows that we are a rough team. Just look at the Ducks, they are right behind us and they are a very physical team.
Dont know if I can agree with you or not. So many people think that this Flyers team is the softest one yet. That being said, we were #1 in penalties and then got the #1 penalties leader... no shyt we are leading the league in penalties lol.
UseYourAllusion is right - it's the non-calls on the opposing teams that is frustrating.
This.
Should that stick to the face of Carcillo get called yesterday not only do the Flyers get on the PP, but they also likely don't give up that 4th goal that turned out to be the game winner. Arguing causality is pointless here, but it certainly looks as if a non-call cost us a chance to win the game yesterday.
The true test for bias is if other teams avg significantly less against the Flyers than they do in other games. I think you can get that data from NHL.com, I'll see what it shows.
Its not the penalties we take that bug me. We earn em with our undisaplined play. Its the lack of calls on other teams I dont get. When there are nights of 8:1 in PP advantages and the other team has been allowed to play and we arent, that bugs me. Like why Recchi wasnt whistled for Unsportsman like last night bugs me. Yes he was cross checked. But he dove. Concorruent minors? No. 5 on 3 advantage Boston. Lame. There is a favoritism out there but we dont help ourselves. Ill see our opponet get away with the same hook 30 times a minute after one of our guys gets called for it.
Its not the refs calling us, its the calls the DONT call on opponents. We earned our spot atop the league in PIMs no question about it.
Dont know if I can agree with you or not. So many people think that this Flyers team is the softest one yet. That being said, we were #1 in penalties and then got the #1 penalties leader... no shyt we are leading the league in penalties lol.
I dont know, we have soft players, but we have some pretty hard nosed guys out there. We get a lot hits, get into a lot of scrums. Ill agree its not like it was 7-8 years ago, but when you can field a line of Hartnall Richards Carcillo. Thats a pretty harsh line haha.
Overall I agree with the posters in that I dont really care that we are destined to get a lot of calls against us/take a lot of penalties, I just want the other team to be called for the same things we get called on. Its obvious that other team hook and hold just as much as we do (which is a lot) and they dont get called for it. Its also pretty obvious that Refs this year in NHL and NFL are/were pretty horendous. The only difference is in the NFL they admit it and apologize, in the NHL they defend the refs for clearly making the wrong call. I mean if Bettman can fire a ref for not making "new NHL calls" then he has to fire refs for missing some of these calls/making the wrong calls.
Carcillo getting smacked in the m'fn face with a stick when the puck is right at his feet. The opposing player pauses and basically apologizes to him. And not one but both refs look at and don't call it. If it's behind the play or something out of the view of the refs, FINE. But the puck is at his feet! Previous game, chris lee is 10 feet away from coburn in front of the play and still calls coburn for a trip, even though everyone in the building knows he got the puck at least a full second or more before the forward trips over him. The refs are either biased or shouldn't be reffing a peewee game. Either tell me you saw it and you don't like the flyers or admit that your are unqualified at your job.
As much as we would like to believe the stripes put the whistle away against other teams when they play the Flyers, it's not backed up by the stats.
Teams take an average of 0.071 MORE minor penalties when they play the Flyers than when they other teams. (The teams that get the most 'extra' minors: VAN .803, CGY .559, MTL .534, LAK .524, DAL .424. The teams that get the fewest 'extra' minors': FLA -.747, NJD -.695, BOS -.605, NSH -.601, COL -.488).
Incidentally, teams playing the Flyers get .433 more majors/game, .015 less 10 minute misconducts, .010 less game misconducts, and 1.977 PIM more per game than they do against the other teams.
As much as we would like to believe the stripes put the whistle away against other teams when they play the Flyers, it's not backed up by the stats.
Teams take an average of 0.071 MORE minor penalties when they play the Flyers than when they other teams. (The teams that get the most 'extra' minors: VAN .803, CGY .559, MTL .534, LAK .524, DAL .424. The teams that get the fewest 'extra' minors': FLA -.747, NJD -.695, BOS -.605, NSH -.601, COL -.488).
Incidentally, teams playing the Flyers get .433 more majors/game, .015 less 10 minute misconducts, .010 less game misconducts, and 1.977 PIM more per game than they do against the other teams.
All stats through games of 3/29/2009.
Thats cool and all but whats the ratio of penalties in a flyers game. seems like its more for us less for them. Seems teams have at least 2 or 3 more PPs than we do a game. Again part of that is undisaplined play on our part.
and stats dont back up seeing things like a flyer getting a classic cross checking penalty and the other team not getting it
Thats cool and all but whats the ratio of penalties in a flyers game. seems like its more for us less for them. Seems teams have at least 2 or 3 more PPs than we do a game. Again part of that is undisaplined play on our part.
and stats dont back up seeing things like a flyer getting a classic cross checking penalty and the other team not getting it
The thing about that is memory is selective. You don't remember the calls the Flyers get away with or the good calls on the other team.
I admit you can't tell whether refs are calling more on the Flyers because they committed more penalties, or the refs are biased. However, you can expect, that on average, other teams should take about the same number of penalties as they do the rest of the year, and against the Flyers, they get a little more. (For those wondering, the Penguins get about .229 extra minors called against the other team per game.)
MountainHawk, I don't see how your stats make sense. We're 27th in PP opportunities per game. So I mean, by your stats, we play only teams that are extraordinarily disciplined.
I mean, teams have to be giving up less PP opportunities against us otherwise we wouldn't be 27th in PP opportunities.
EDIT: I should add that you're talking about extraordinarily low differences here and you're also taking out the Flyers propensity for concurrent minors and stuff like that. I mean, what if a team got 2 concurrent roughings with the Flyers that they wouldn't usually get and also get away with 1 hook and 1 trip.
That team's penalty minutes will go up 4 minutes over what they'd usually be, but the Flyers wouldn't be seeing any PP time off of it.
I think I saw an article a while back, forgive me I don't have the link. I'm pretty sure it compared the refs anywhere from, basketball, to baseball, football, and hockey. If I wasn't mistaken hockey refs were voted the worst.
If your talking about the Coburn call in the game last night. That was a defensive play all day. You may be talking about another penalty. If so please correct me.
If your talking about the Coburn call in the game last night. That was a defensive play all day. You may be talking about another penalty. If so please correct me.
I think he's saying in general, Coburn and Hartnell lead the team in moronic penalties.
