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Kings 1st Rounder

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Old
03-31-2009, 04:28 PM
  #101
Defgarden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Rights to Franzen (30-40 goal scorer)
Hudler (60-70 pts and hes young with time to develop)
Lebda (A severicable puckmoving defenseman who can be 5-7,)
Howard (Goalie Prospect who we wont have room for next season so he will probably go on waivers anyways)

For LAK 1st

Thats seems pretty fair and thats alos tons of PO experience. And you can switch Hudler with Filpulla if youd prefer a center.
That's a buttload for the pick dude. It'll be a high pick, but that's a lot. Hell, even without Franzen's rights, that's a whole bunch.

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Old
03-31-2009, 04:51 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
Downplay him all you want but Sully is a proven scorer. We don't need to make up any excuses since those WERE all part of the problem. Second year player being in the doghouse of a system. You goofballs were saying the same thing about Cammy last year. Why is it ok with some fans that the Kings force out players the second they get to a point where they should makes some money? DL has a history of this ******** and AEG has a history of not giving a **** about winning. LA fans have a history of being gullable and not giving a flying ****.

EDIT: BTW, most of this was directed towards SFKingsHomer's comment and not yours.
I'm not trying to downplay anything. And also note that Patty O missed training camp and HE has to take responsibility for that. I wasn't saying anything about Cammalleri last year other than I hope we keep him but I understood why there was a chance we didn't. I like him and be happy if he was still on the Kings (Go Blue!).

I don't think Patty O was forced out. I think DL got a chance to get a player he thought would help the team out. Originally when it was just for O'Sullivan it doesn't seem like a stretch to think he was getting a better player. When Williams is healthy, he is a better player than Patrick. Will Patrick continue to develop? I hope so but there is no guarantee and I think him missing training camp had a lot to do with his poor season. He started off on the wrong foot with a new coach and never really settled in when others seemed to find their place. But I think it is unfair to compare Patrick's situation to Michael's. I think DL may have had buyers remorse with Patrick and we'll have to wait and see if Patrick can prove that was a mistake.

But to say we lost a proven scorer but not mention that we also gained one in Williams is misleading. I have a poll on the Kings board if you feel Patty O will out score Williams next year.. please vote!

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03-31-2009, 05:12 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
I'm not trying to downplay anything. And also note that Patty O missed training camp and HE has to take responsibility for that. I wasn't saying anything about Cammalleri last year other than I hope we keep him but I understood why there was a chance we didn't. I like him and be happy if he was still on the Kings (Go Blue!).

I don't think Patty O was forced out. I think DL got a chance to get a player he thought would help the team out. Originally when it was just for O'Sullivan it doesn't seem like a stretch to think he was getting a better player. When Williams is healthy, he is a better player than Patrick. Will Patrick continue to develop? I hope so but there is no guarantee and I think him missing training camp had a lot to do with his poor season. He started off on the wrong foot with a new coach and never really settled in when others seemed to find their place. But I think it is unfair to compare Patrick's situation to Michael's. I think DL may have had buyers remorse with Patrick and we'll have to wait and see if Patrick can prove that was a mistake.

But to say we lost a proven scorer but not mention that we also gained one in Williams is misleading. I have a poll on the Kings board if you feel Patty O will out score Williams next year.. please vote!
IIRC, he was asked by management not to attend training camp until his contract negotiations were done.

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Old
03-31-2009, 05:35 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defgarden View Post
That's a buttload for the pick dude. It'll be a high pick, but that's a lot. Hell, even without Franzen's rights, that's a whole bunch.
Well the Wings won't have room for any of those players next season so might as well trade them away for a really high draft pick.

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Old
03-31-2009, 06:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Defgarden View Post
IIRC, he was asked by management not to attend training camp until his contract negotiations were done.
I realize that but a guy his age shouldn't really have been squabbling over money. I think since it was clear that Lombardi had the leverage in the negotiations, once Patrick realized that, he signed a contract. From what I understand, Patrick didn't want to budge on the term and that is what took so long for him to sign.

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Old
03-31-2009, 07:51 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by rajuabju View Post
Feud? You mean wanting to be paid for his superb production?

I'm pretty sure Heatley and Kovy and any other scoring winger who puts up PPG numbers is also gonna want to get paid.

Regardless, I am in total agreement the Kings need to add 1, maybe even 2, offensive threats if they want to take the next step forward. But DL needs to be willing to pony up the cashola
And Im pretty sure those guys repeatedly scored at a ppg pace before they got the big money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
Downplay him all you want but Sully is a proven scorer. We don't need to make up any excuses since those WERE all part of the problem. Second year player being in the doghouse of a system. You goofballs were saying the same thing about Cammy last year. Why is it ok with some fans that the Kings force out players the second they get to a point where they should makes some money? DL has a history of this ******** and AEG has a history of not giving a **** about winning. LA fans have a history of being gullable and not giving a flying ****.

EDIT: BTW, most of this was directed towards SFKingsHomer's comment and not yours.
Sully is a proven 20 goal scorer, Williams is a proven 30 goal scorer who bring more to the table consistently. POS wasnt producing with the Kings and he hasnt been producing with the Oilers. As far as the Kings forcing players out when they want to make money, theres several guys on the roster that will tell you otherwise.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:18 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
I realize that but a guy his age shouldn't really have been squabbling over money. I think since it was clear that Lombardi had the leverage in the negotiations, once Patrick realized that, he signed a contract. From what I understand, Patrick didn't want to budge on the term and that is what took so long for him to sign.

Why? It's his RIGHT to squabble over money. That's how the system works. Just like in the real world.

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:29 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I'm quite familiar with Telos, and I can guarantee you he's not living in fantasy world. He meant the Kings won't trade the 1st unless it's part of a bigger deal to acquire Kovalchuk.

So basically what he's saying, and I agree, is that there's no point in the Kings trading their first unless they are going to get a franchise type player in return. This team is still VERY young and growing. It is not going to help us one bit to trade the first away for a 2nd line left wing or a number 3 dman. No, we need a guy who can become another cornerstone of this franchise. So why would we not try the cheapest way to add that player? The draft.

It is very possible that with our 1st in the 09 draft that we could draft a player that could be even better than Kovalchuk. Maybe not as talented, but better. If the Kings franchise continues to set it sights low, the Kings franchise will stay exactly where it has been for the last 15 years.
Thanks for clarifying that for me.

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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
wow talk about overating a first. You won't trade your first unless your getting a potential 50 goal scorer already in the NHL. You do realize there is only one player in the NHL with 50 goals and 3 guys with 40. Aside from Tavares no one has the potential in the draft to reach those numbers and he's unlikely to get there anytime soon. Really get a clue. I'm not saying you should trade your first but these expectations are very unrealistic. You could get an impact winger or center but definately not to the extent your looking for.
Pretty much exactly what Legionnaire said. As I have already explained my position to another that questioned the 50 goal scorer line of my post... I intentionally put in the word "potential" to try and give the requirement leeway. There are a lot of players that could potentially pot that many goals in a season, I wasn't trying to insinuate that we will only look at established 50 goal scorers because that is nuts... I acknowledge that the requirement is too high and ridiculous, I am not trying to come off as only someone that pots 50 will make a trade justifiable... I am just saying that the Kings will not trade the pick unless a franchise offensive threat is coming the other way.

Whether or not Dean agrees with my high standard is another thing since he has now stated that he will be shopping the pick in an acute capacity towards select players he believes are "the right fit." I am not saying the pick would be traded straight up for someone like Kovalchuk, it would obviously be included in a much broader and expensive package, but I don't believe Atlanta will listen to any deals of the sort unless a serious overpayment was on the table... I don't think Lombardi is going to be successful in trading the pick for such a player and I think they will use the pick and work on other trades and free agency signings throughout the rest of the off-season.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:06 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Thanks for clarifying that for me.



Pretty much exactly what Legionnaire said. As I have already explained my position to another that questioned the 50 goal scorer line of my post... I intentionally put in the word "potential" to try and give the requirement leeway. There are a lot of players that could potentially pot that many goals in a season, I wasn't trying to insinuate that we will only look at established 50 goal scorers because that is nuts... I acknowledge that the requirement is too high and ridiculous, I am not trying to come off as only someone that pots 50 will make a trade justifiable... I am just saying that the Kings will not trade the pick unless a franchise offensive threat is coming the other way.

Whether or not Dean agrees with my high standard is another thing since he has now stated that he will be shopping the pick in an acute capacity towards select players he believes are "the right fit." I am not saying the pick would be traded straight up for someone like Kovalchuk, it would obviously be included in a much broader and expensive package, but I don't believe Atlanta will listen to any deals of the sort unless a serious overpayment was on the table... I don't think Lombardi is going to be successful in trading the pick for such a player and I think they will use the pick and work on other trades and free agency signings throughout the rest of the off-season.
this is spot on.

realistically i would expect our first, fro, and a prospect like moller or lewis to be offered up in a deal for a guy like kovie.

it should definitely be a pretty intriguing offseason for us. if you make a huge trade like that do you still go after a guy like gabby? should be very very interesting, and i think we'll have a squad that will be pretty darn competitive and very young.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Why? It's his RIGHT to squabble over money. That's how the system works. Just like in the real world.
Sure it's his right, but nothing gets you a one way ticket out of town faster than doing so, and then not producing.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:32 PM
  #111
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uhmmm...

that discussion leads to nothing......
Other guys offers mostly crap and Kings Fans expecting to much...

I think we keep the Pick and see what we can get or we fetch out a elite player for a package what includes our 1st

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:58 PM
  #112
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I think its going to be Kovalchuk or bust.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:59 PM
  #113
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would the kings consider Kaberle + Stemps/Stajan for 1st, Boyle, Voynov?

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:01 PM
  #114
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would the kings consider Kaberle + Stemps/Stajan for 1st, Boyle, Voynov?
haha. Kings laugh at that.

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:05 PM
  #115
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what about a bigger package involving Parise, or is he untouchable? He would be a perfect fit since they play a similar defense first system and already has 40 goals and the Kings need a LW badly.


Last edited by Brophy: 04-01-2009 at 01:23 PM.
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Old
04-01-2009, 03:07 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brophy View Post
what about a bigger package involving Parise, or is he untouchable? He would be a perfect fit since they play a similar defense first system and already has 40 goals and the Kings need a LW badly.
Parise is ideal, but I don't see the Devils trading him. If they were to consider it, we would have to jettison multiple picks, including our first, a couple of high ranked prospects and a roster player likely in the top 8 or so. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't bank on it.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:10 PM
  #117
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It wouldn't matter though as long as your not giving up Kopitar, Doughty or Brown. Parise is signed so cheap for the next few years and Kings have the cap space to make up for any loses. I don't know if hes tradeable though.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:14 PM
  #118
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The Kings need a true #1a, or 2 center. It looks like the Flyers are stocked with high end centers and may have cap issues. Since Briere will be a hard move and Richards is team leader, I propose the following:


Carter - young center with good size and great hands. Gives the Kings a scoring threat down the middle. May compliment a set up winger like Purcell.

for

Stoll - great 3rd liner that can play top line minutes if injury, great faceoff man, younger. Signed for 3 more at 3.6 per

Ersberg - reliable back-up, posts great numbers if not overworked and carrying load

1st 2009 - looks to be approx 6th overall


fire away

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:20 PM
  #119
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To get Carter, its going to take more than that. Ersberg may be nice but the Flyers need a true #1 goalie like now. Stoll and the first would be cool but Carter is really the face in the franchise next to Richards right now, I dont know.

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04-01-2009, 03:28 PM
  #120
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To get Carter, its going to take more than that. Ersberg may be nice but the Flyers need a true #1 goalie like now. Stoll and the first would be cool but Carter is really the face in the franchise next to Richards right now, I dont know.
No, you don't want to lose Carter, and this is coming from a Kings fan. A lot of talk is buzzing around(among fans) that Gagne would be a nice addition to LA's ranks, though. And since Terry and Dean love anything beginning and ending with Philadelphia or Flyers, it's a completely realistic idea.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:39 PM
  #121
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Flyers dont want to lose Carter and they wont, hes the face of the franchise man. If he were to have been traded it would have been at last years deadline.

Also, Gagne has a NTC.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:43 PM
  #122
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No, you don't want to lose Carter, and this is coming from a Kings fan. A lot of talk is buzzing around(among fans) that Gagne would be a nice addition to LA's ranks, though. And since Terry and Dean love anything beginning and ending with Philadelphia or Flyers, it's a completely realistic idea.
the only problem with Gagne as a Kings fan is he is UFA in 2 years as Carter is RFA. The Kings wont really be legit contenders for those 2 years and there would be a good chance he would walk.

I would be very hesitant as a Kings fan to give up any significant piece to gain only 2 years of a player under contract, since we are still sorting ourselves out. I would rather keep the prospects and give Gabby a 2 year high money deal, if he doesn't work he can go, no prospects lost, no hurting the cap when it comes to sign our own. If Gabby wants so bad to come here, he may give us a discounted contract.

I just picked Carter do to Philly's glut at center, need for cap space, and L.A's need for a goalscorer. The trade contract wise fills Philly's 3rd line Center position (Stoll), back up position (Ersberg), and still gives Philly an extra $500,000 a year to play with. With the cost of Niitymaki's $1,250,000 coming off the books, the extra $500,000 from the Kings and Biron's $3,500,000 it allows Philly to go out and get a $5,250,000 starter and still have spent the same amount in goal as the previous year.

It also gives them a highend 1st round pick to add to there depth of prospects.

No matter what happens these young talented teams like Philly and L.A have to be contract smart in order to keep these potential awesome rosters together. It should be a great next 5 - 7 years for both teams.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:43 PM
  #123
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Also, Gagne has a NTC.
They(Flyers)/we(Kings) could always ask.

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:01 PM
  #124
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Sure it's his right, but nothing gets you a one way ticket out of town faster than doing so, and then not producing.
You were right the first time. He questioned the great Deano. IHe had the balls to stand up for himself, and got shipped out for it. That's no way to build a team. You're going to end up with a team full of ******* if that happens. No surprise what we've been seeing lately then, eh?

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04-01-2009, 04:02 PM
  #125
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of course.

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