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Phx - Pit

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:35 PM
  #1
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Phx - Pit

Boedker, Lisin

for

Jordan Staal, 2nd

Pittsburgh gets 2 very capable young wingers, one of whom seems to be a perfect linemate for Crosby (Boedker has shown himself very capable to perform on high speed) and a Russian linemate for Malkin who is talented enough to develop into a 30 goal scorer. Phoenix finally has center depth to go on with Staal and Turris, as well as a relatively big name to help them with attendance and Jared Staal's brother. Not to mention Turris - Doan and Staal - Mueller would be a good top 4/top 6.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:39 PM
  #2
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Boedker (1.725, RFA '11)
Lisin (0.91, RFA this year)

for

Staal (4.0, UFA '13)
and 2nd

Even after lisin's raise this year, phoenix will be adding salary, but I think the 2nd makes up for that. My only problem is that Phoenix still seems very high on Boedker, and i doubt he would be traded so soon after being drafted.

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:06 PM
  #3
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Yeah, but Phoenix is barely above the cap floor as it is. They can afford to add good value contracts (like Staal's). They also desperately need a go to forward other than Doan, and Staal could prove to be that guy.

Not to mention they've got 2 first round picks, one of them a top 10 one, so they could draft another top end winger to make up for Boedker's absence. Centers generally take longer to develop and they've got to start winning as soon as possible.

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04-01-2009, 01:30 PM
  #4
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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No trading Staal for unprovens.

No trading Staal period unless the prospects and FAs next year don't pan out, and the cap drops, and only then for a veteran scoring winger with grit and a good, extended contract.

Don't like it? Great. We're more than happy to keep Staal right where he is.

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:55 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Boedker, Lisin

for

Jordan Staal, 2nd
Not a chance.

Counter:

Peter Mueller for Jordan Staal, straight up.

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:07 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Not a chance.

Counter:

Peter Mueller for Jordan Staal, straight up.
Staal is younger than Mueller, much better in his own end, scoring more despite playing in a primarily defensive role, playoff proven, and signed long-term.

So what's supposed to be Shero's incentive here? The fact that Mueller's a natural wing?

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:15 PM
  #7
Gwyddbwyll
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The 2nd is not worth anything when you're talking about players like these. The positional argument (centre depth) is not quite on the mark - the Coyotes are grooming Turris, have Lombardi / Hanzal and Mueller is a former centre. Jared Staal? He's nowhere near his brothers as a prospect and shouldnt be a consideration. Jordan isnt famous enough to boost attendance in Phoenix.

Not a bad idea at all, but I dont think it happens. I've seen Mueller/Staal and Lisin/Goligoski so perhaps:

Mueller, Lisin for Staal, Goligoski ?

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:20 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Staal is younger than Mueller, much better in his own end, scoring more despite playing in a primarily defensive role, playoff proven, and signed long-term.

So what's supposed to be Shero's incentive here? The fact that Mueller's a natural wing?
Staal has 111 points in 239 career games. That's 0.46 ppg
Mueller has 88 pts in 147 games which is 0.60 ppg.

I wouldnt use the "scoring more" argument if I were you.

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:32 PM
  #9
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From a Phoenix POV not sure I'd want similar style players Staal and Hanzal on the roster together, unless you expect one of them to turn into a 60+ point center.

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:32 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Staal is younger than Mueller, much better in his own end, scoring more despite playing in a primarily defensive role, playoff proven, and signed long-term.

So what's supposed to be Shero's incentive here? The fact that Mueller's a natural wing?
Younger? By fifteen minutes? When the season ends, both will be twenty. When next season starts, both will be twenty one. Sure Peter was born earlier in the summer of 1988, and Staal was born later in the summer of 1988. Both are the same draft year. Let's not get too nit-picky.

While, Staal may be scoring more in a defensive role in Pittsburgh, Peter Mueller plays for the Phoenix Coyotes, coached by Wayne Gretzky. That's a pretty awful position to be expected to produce in. Don't take my word for it, just look at how terrible everyone's numbers are, with the exception of Shane Doan, who could still pot twenty goals if you amputated his left foot, and right hand. Anyway, I don't really want to get into a Mueller vs. Staal argument.

As far as incentive, I don't really know. I was just kind of throwing it out there. It's been tossed around before, a few times. I suppose the fact that Mueller is much cheaper, and is a wing, rather than a center might have something to do with it. Pittsburgh seems a little long on high-dollar centers. At least from an ignorant outsider's prospective.

Personally, I don't have the slightest bit of doubt that Peter Mueller would score a ridiculous amount of goals if given a regular shift with the likes of Crosby or Malkin. Mueller's shot is elite. It's everything else he has to round out. He's been injured, sophomore jinxed, and playing on one of the NHL's most pathetic teams, for the NHL's worst head coach, this season. I think he'd turn it around in a major hurry with a clean bill of health, a fresh start on a real team, with an actual system for winning hockey games. No doubt.

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04-01-2009, 02:34 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
From a Phoenix POV not sure I'd want similar style players Staal and Hanzal on the roster together, unless you expect one of them to turn into a 60+ point center.
As long as neither are considered the first line center, I think it would be awesome to have Staal and Hanzal on the same team. Staal is more of a goal-scorer, and Hanzal is more of a play-maker. Match their line-mates accoridingly, and I think we'd have something unique, and effective, if used properly. Two gigantic, potential Selke caliber centers that could both regularly put up 50-60 points a season? Yes, please.

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:39 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Not a chance.

Counter:

Peter Mueller for Jordan Staal, straight up.
Absolutely not.

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:40 PM
  #13
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The Coyotes won't trade Boedker unless if it's so one sided where they would have to so it's unlikely that would happen. They don't need more draft picks unless if they can use them to move up in the draft. They have enough prospects and need to develope them instead of trying to find playing time for all of them...
I can see Lisin being part of it.
What about a defensive center to take Staal's place (I'm thinking Tikhonov and not Hanzal but may consider Porter)...

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:41 PM
  #14
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Kunitz - Crosby - Boedker
Tangradi - Malkin - Lisin
Caputi - Kennedy - Cooke
Dupuis - Talbot - Jeffrey

??

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:45 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Absolutely not.
Honestly, the smarter, more responsible, and entirely more likely route for us would be to hang onto Mueller and just draft Brayden Schenn, or move up for Matt Duchene, anyhow. It's just Staal would expedite the process a little bit. I'm sure management is much more patient than us fans, which, undoubtedly, is a very good thing.

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04-01-2009, 02:50 PM
  #16
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I think Mueller's problem at the beginning of the season is that he bulked up, which made him a tad slower and tired out quicker. I look for him to bounce back next season. I would like for them to get Staal and keep Hanzal, and with Turris and Lombardi, it would make it hard for the opposition to match up against the Coyotes...

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:57 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
I think Mueller's problem at the beginning of the season is that he bulked up, which made him a tad slower and tired out quicker. I look for him to bounce back next season. I would like for them to get Staal and keep Hanzal, and with Turris and Lombardi, it would make it hard for the opposition to match up against the Coyotes...
With the right head coach, having all three of Hanzal, Staal, and Lombardi up the middle could be utterly suffocating to opposing offenses.

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:17 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
With the right head coach, having all three of Hanzal, Staal, and Lombardi up the middle could be utterly suffocating to opposing offenses.
So can Crosby, Malkin and Staal, hence why the OP's proposal or any other one mentioned in here is worthless to the Pens right now.

If we are trading Staal, an established player is coming back if at all possible. And for the OP, the Pens would be giving up the more established player .... why would they give up the pick?

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:50 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Staal has 111 points in 239 career games. That's 0.46 ppg
Mueller has 88 pts in 147 games which is 0.60 ppg.

I wouldnt use the "scoring more" argument if I were you.
Right. Because career scoring takes precedence over the current season when evaluating a player's worth. Toronto ought to see if they can flip Stempniak back to St.Louis for Backes, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Not a bad idea at all, but I dont think it happens. I've seen Mueller/Staal and Lisin/Goligoski so perhaps:

Mueller, Lisin for Staal, Goligoski ?
This is getting silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
While, Staal may be scoring more in a defensive role in Pittsburgh, Peter Mueller plays for the Phoenix Coyotes, coached by Wayne Gretzky. That's a pretty awful position to be expected to produce in. Don't take my word for it, just look at how terrible everyone's numbers are, with the exception of Shane Doan, who could still pot twenty goals if you amputated his left foot, and right hand. Anyway, I don't really want to get into a Mueller vs. Staal argument.
So is playing for a passive, disciplinarian coach like Therrien, which is why Staal's looked like a dog off a leash ever since Bylsma's taken over. Not to be a jackass here, but a significant reason why everyone but Doan's numbers on the Coyotes aren't that good because they don't have many veteran scoring talents but Doan. I'm sure the whippersnappers will get there, but it's exceedingly difficult to score much when your core's that young.

Ironically, Doan's about the only Phoenix asset that would legitimately catch the Pens interest if Staal were on the table. Pittsburgh does not need a project if they're giving up a player like Staal.

Quote:
As far as incentive, I don't really know. I was just kind of throwing it out there. It's been tossed around before, a few times. I suppose the fact that Mueller is much cheaper, and is a wing, rather than a center might have something to do with it. Pittsburgh seems a little long on high-dollar centers. At least from an ignorant outsider's prospective.
Mueller's likely only cheaper through next year, and if he is after that, it probably won't be by much.

Quote:
Personally, I don't have the slightest bit of doubt that Peter Mueller would score a ridiculous amount of goals if given a regular shift with the likes of Crosby or Malkin. Mueller's shot is elite. It's everything else he has to round out. He's been injured, sophomore jinxed, and playing on one of the NHL's most pathetic teams, for the NHL's worst head coach, this season. I think he'd turn it around in a major hurry with a clean bill of health, a fresh start on a real team, with an actual system for winning hockey games. No doubt.
But the Pens can't take that chance. They're in a position for playoff success now, and Staal's producing more and playing a better all-around game now, to say nothing of his own potential.

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:54 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
The 2nd is not worth anything when you're talking about players like these. The positional argument (centre depth) is not quite on the mark - the Coyotes are grooming Turris, have Lombardi / Hanzal and Mueller is a former centre. Jared Staal? He's nowhere near his brothers as a prospect and shouldnt be a consideration. Jordan isnt famous enough to boost attendance in Phoenix.

Not a bad idea at all, but I dont think it happens. I've seen Mueller/Staal and Lisin/Goligoski so perhaps:

Mueller, Lisin for Staal, Goligoski ?
Goligoski is pretty much untradeable now that Whitney is gone. Otherwise all they're left with in OD department are Gonchar and Letang.

Staal is better than Lombardi, better than Hanzal as well although Hanzal is an excellent role player. At this point Staal would probably be a better center than Turris as well, even though Turris seems like he'll develop nicely. Lombardi isn't really anything special.

A Turris - Staal - Hanzal top 3 would be excellent for years to come.

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Old
04-01-2009, 06:04 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Right. Because career scoring takes precedence over the current season when evaluating a player's worth. Toronto ought to see if they can flip Stempniak back to St.Louis for Backes, then.
2nd season vs 3rd season. So 2nd season vs 2nd season and mueller still outscores staal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
This is getting silly.
very



Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
So is playing for a passive, disciplinarian coach like Therrien, which is why Staal's looked like a dog off a leash ever since Bylsma's taken over. Not to be a jackass here, but a significant reason why everyone but Doan's numbers on the Coyotes aren't that good because they don't have many veteran scoring talents but Doan. I'm sure the whippersnappers will get there, but it's exceedingly difficult to score much when your core's that young.

Ironically, Doan's about the only Phoenix asset that would legitimately catch the Pens interest if Staal were on the table. Pittsburgh does not need a project if they're giving up a player like Staal.

Mueller's likely only cheaper through next year, and if he is after that, it probably won't be by much.

But the Pens can't take that chance. They're in a position for playoff success now, and Staal's producing more and playing a better all-around game now, to say nothing of his own potential.
If your only interested in Doan, then why bother. Pit has basically 0 assets they would "trade" and would be much better suited increasing their depth than getting even more top heavy, which is the whole argument for trading staal anyway.

But, If i were phoenix's GM, I wouldn't want staal anyway. Hanzal is better anyway. Hes got 4 points in the last 4 games to staals 0.

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Old
04-01-2009, 06:12 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Honestly, the smarter, more responsible, and entirely more likely route for us would be to hang onto Mueller and just draft Brayden Schenn, or move up for Matt Duchene, anyhow. It's just Staal would expedite the process a little bit. I'm sure management is much more patient than us fans, which, undoubtedly, is a very good thing.
I would not do Staal for Mueller, like I said.

Would a Letang for Boedker kind of swap interest you?

Goligoski for Tikhonov or Lisin?

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Old
04-01-2009, 06:25 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by indczn View Post
2nd season vs 3rd season. So 2nd season vs 2nd season and mueller still outscores staal
But Staal was 19 in his second season and Mueller was 20.

Mueller would look nice on the Pens, but I don't think he is necessarily an upgrade on Staal, especially with the way Staal has been playing lately. Plus, Mueller is going to get more expensive after next year. While he might not be making $4m he should still get a healthy raise, enough to all but eliminate any cap room the Pens would get from dealing Staal.

On the other hand, Mueller is a right shot...

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Old
04-01-2009, 08:18 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
I would not do Staal for Mueller, like I said.

Would a Letang for Boedker kind of swap interest you?

Goligoski for Tikhonov or Lisin?
I don't see a good reason why should trade another young defenseman any time soon.

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Old
04-01-2009, 08:22 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
The 2nd is not worth anything when you're talking about players like these. The positional argument (centre depth) is not quite on the mark - the Coyotes are grooming Turris, have Lombardi / Hanzal and Mueller is a former centre. Jared Staal? He's nowhere near his brothers as a prospect and shouldnt be a consideration. Jordan isnt famous enough to boost attendance in Phoenix.

Not a bad idea at all, but I dont think it happens. I've seen Mueller/Staal and Lisin/Goligoski so perhaps:

Mueller, Lisin for Staal, Goligoski ?
Wouldn't want Mueller's lazy ass and we can't afford to move Goligoski after moving Whitney. Not to mention, I don't see how we need to add to the deal considering we're giving up the best player.

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