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Old
04-01-2009, 12:33 PM
  #26
danishh
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i dont think this deal works for either side. For buffalo, Roy's value is better than Briere's considering cap hits. I'm sure they'd love the salary savings in later years, but it's still a ways away (2013) until those savings will manifest.

For the flyers, saving 2M on the cap is important, but they would want a winger back, not another center.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:37 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I assumed he was a flyers fan because of how lopsided the deal was
you know what happens when you assume

though the OP has a point when he says that the sabres could use some more leadership.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:45 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
My point was that some flyer fans get quite worked up when people criticize Briere and his contract, and talk about how good he is and that his contract is justified - he is constantly called a 90pt guy (which he has done once). If Briere was truly that valuable, and if he was a consistent 90pt guy - you wouldn't be willing to move him no matter what the cap situation was. In the current market of uncertainty it will be tough to get fair value for him because people don't want a 60-70 pt guy @ 6.5 cap hit - and they definitely don't want a 37 yr old (when the contract expires) making 6.5
When Briere first came back into the lineup I did a little research about his contract. I compared his cap hit and PPG to the highest paid players from each team, and I found that few actually had a higher PPG since the lockout than him. Actually if I recall correctly off the top of my head it was Crosby, Ovechkin, Heatly, Kovalchuk, Lecavalier, and Savard that higher PPG, and Gaborik had an equal number. Out of them I believe Kovalchuk and Heatly's PPG were not substantially higher. Furthermore the only high paid player with a higher PPG than Briere and a smaller cap hit is Savard. So i would say his contract is a fair value.

Briere was pretty much the top free agent the year we signed him, and a lot of the other players on the list I had were not UFA's when they got their contracts. So, right off the bat his contract would already have to be a little higher because it costs more to sign a big name UFA then it does to give them a raise while they're still on the roster.. for the most part.

For the people you're referring to who want to trade him, they're either morons or simply think the money could be better spent elsewhere since we have 2 outstanding young centers and possibly a 3rd in Giroux. If we didn't have those players they would not be willing to part with Briere, trust me.

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:25 PM
  #29
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Flyers don't trade Briere plain and simple. He's too good on the PP and come playoff time regardless of his injuries. For heaven's sake, it's not like we're talking about Forsberg here..

I think any GM in the league wouldn't mind having Briere @ 6.25/yr, no?

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:56 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
Is younger really such a selling point right now? The Sabres foward corps is woefully lacking in leadership.

Tim Connolly was incredibly durable over the first few years of his career. It's impossible to predict the future that way. Briere has had his troubles, but I don't think it's fair to call him injury prone. He played two full seasons before this one.

The Sabres may lose the deal from a value standpoint, but I think a majority of Sabres fans would agree that the team would have a better chance of making the playoffs the next two or three years if Briere replaced Roy in the lineup.
For a team that builds around young skill low-mid salary players yes younger is a selling point. Roy is still improving and could even be as good as Briere with a little more seasoning. If the Sabres want to acquire leadership I'm sure they can do that without trading their top producing young center.

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:11 PM
  #31
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Buffalo having to throw in the second-rounder is hilarious.

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Old
04-01-2009, 02:54 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastMode2326 View Post
For a team that builds around young skill low-mid salary players yes younger is a selling point. Roy is still improving and could even be as good as Briere with a little more seasoning. If the Sabres want to acquire leadership I'm sure they can do that without trading their top producing young center.
Where did that get them? Rapidly approaching two years without a playoff spot.

I wouldn't call this season "improvement" for Roy. He doesn't have the natural offensive talent Briere does either. It's unlikely he'll ever produce at that level.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
Where did that get them? Rapidly approaching two years without a playoff spot.

I wouldn't call this season "improvement" for Roy. He doesn't have the natural offensive talent Briere does either. It's unlikely he'll ever produce at that level.
I think you are overvaluing Briere's offensive talent. Outside the one year 95 point explosion on the immensely offensive talented 06-07 Sabres he's been around a 60-75 point player. Roy not only matches that with his recent 81 point season last year and his 65-70 point year this year but he also plays better defensively. Roy plays the PK on a top 10 PK team. Briere may be a better known player but I don't think he's much better than Roy if at all better than Roy.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:36 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastMode2326 View Post
I think you are overvaluing Briere's offensive talent. Outside the one year 95 point explosion on the immensely offensive talented 06-07 Sabres he's been around a 60-75 point player. Roy not only matches that with his recent 81 point season last year and his 65-70 point year this year but he also plays better defensively. Roy plays the PK on a top 10 PK team. Briere may be a better known player but I don't think he's much better than Roy if at all better than Roy.
Briere averaged 1.18 PPG after the lockout with Buffalo. That wasn't just 06-07', but 05-06' as well. Briere's puck-handling and playmaking ability is definitely better than Roy's. Those are two things the Sabres need more of, considering the only other player in their top-six with that skill set is Connolly. Briere is also much, much better on the powerplay.

Roy is better defensively than Briere, but he's a little over-rated in that area.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:39 PM
  #35
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Tired of the Briere talk make a proposal for Ribeiro.

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Old
04-01-2009, 03:42 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Pretty sure Briere doesn't want to go back to Buffalo.


Briere has already been playing wing and has been playing well.


His contract is not a concern
well its going to be, like it or not the cap is going to go down after next season, by how much? its hard to tell. and the fact is that the flyers have played fairly well all year with/without him in the lineup. that 6.5 million will not look to pleasent when it comes time to resign carter. not to mentiom when younger guys like JVR and giroux need raises, its an 8 year contract afterall

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
Flyers don't trade Briere plain and simple. He's too good on the PP and come playoff time regardless of his injuries. For heaven's sake, it's not like we're talking about Forsberg here..

I think any GM in the league wouldn't mind having Briere @ 6.25/yr, no?
PLEASE tell me that was an april fools joke! 6.5 million for a PP speciailist who can't play defence is a bit much. As for the 6.25 comment, thats overpayment, and for 6 more years after this? why don't you ask the GM's yourself to avoid everyone here having to flame you for that...

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:10 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candiria92 View Post
When Briere first came back into the lineup I did a little research about his contract. I compared his cap hit and PPG to the highest paid players from each team, and I found that few actually had a higher PPG since the lockout than him. Actually if I recall correctly off the top of my head it was Crosby, Ovechkin, Heatly, Kovalchuk, Lecavalier, and Savard that higher PPG, and Gaborik had an equal number. Out of them I believe Kovalchuk and Heatly's PPG were not substantially higher. Furthermore the only high paid player with a higher PPG than Briere and a smaller cap hit is Savard. So i would say his contract is a fair value.

Briere was pretty much the top free agent the year we signed him, and a lot of the other players on the list I had were not UFA's when they got their contracts. So, right off the bat his contract would already have to be a little higher because it costs more to sign a big name UFA then it does to give them a raise while they're still on the roster.. for the most part.

For the people you're referring to who want to trade him, they're either morons or simply think the money could be better spent elsewhere since we have 2 outstanding young centers and possibly a 3rd in Giroux. If we didn't have those players they would not be willing to part with Briere, trust me.
he's certainly worth his contract now... and probably next year... but the following 4 years of the deal... ouch. Especially considering he's coming off his 2nd major groin/abdominal injury...

Pt per game is a good indicator when you want to hide the "games missed" factor when looking at a contract.... I do it all the time defending Connolly

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:39 PM
  #38
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Sigh...



He's only ever had one difficult injury in his career and he seems to be over it.



$6.5m for a 90 point (if fit) forward isn't bad at all. It's also front-loaded so the biggest years are out of the way.

Why do people persist in spouting out the same old nonsense about Briere?
Is Briere a 90 point player anymore though? I just don't think he is effective enough at even strength to score 90 points, especially in Philly. I think Briere is pretty much a 70-80 point player now, and when Roy is better than Briere at almost everything else, except maybe leadership, I don't see Buffalo being interested in this deal.

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Old
04-01-2009, 05:20 PM
  #39
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ugh, i dislike briere but dislike roy more

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Old
04-01-2009, 06:29 PM
  #40
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Yuck, no.

The whole contract thing with Briere is that his cap hit is high [6.5m, right?], especially in a few more years when he's probably not producing at 80 points.

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Old
04-01-2009, 06:46 PM
  #41
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I don't read a lot of proposals by detroit fans looking to move Datsyuk - he's a first line 90 pt center with a cap hit of 6.7 until the 12/13 season. Briere doesn't belong in that category. IMO at this point and given the new finances of the league I don't think Briere is worth Roy and a 2nd (or 6.5 - for that matter) I like Briere - for 5 mil a yr - his contract isn't as bad as Gomez but I think comparing him to the 06 Briere isn't accurate.

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Old
04-01-2009, 07:02 PM
  #42
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I wouldn't trade Roy for Briere straight up given their contracts, let alone Buffalo having to toss in a 2nd rounder.

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Old
04-01-2009, 07:09 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ColonelForbin View Post
Briere averaged 1.18 PPG after the lockout with Buffalo. That wasn't just 06-07', but 05-06' as well. Briere's puck-handling and playmaking ability is definitely better than Roy's. Those are two things the Sabres need more of, considering the only other player in their top-six with that skill set is Connolly. Briere is also much, much better on the powerplay.

Roy is better defensively than Briere, but he's a little over-rated in that area.
Oh yeah. Forgot he missed almost half the season in 05-06 but that just adds to the durability factor again.

Then again I'm not doubting Briere's talent we all know what he can do. However I wouldn't want the Sabres to mortgage their future for short term goals. Everyone watching this team knows we need a lot more than just a Danny Briere to make a legitimate cup run. I think the Sabres would much rather hang onto Roy and have a great Center for the considerable future.

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Old
04-02-2009, 01:06 PM
  #44
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Briere is 31, is 5'10" 179lbs and has 5 years left on his contract (I'm pretty sure he signed a 7 year deal) and has 95, 72 (-22) and 16 points the last 3 seasons. This year is really his only injury riddled season.

Roy is 25 right now, 5'9" 188lbs, and his last 3 seasons has had 63, 81 and 67 points, and played over 75 games in each season. Roy has 2 years left at 4mil per.

Why in the world would the Sabres trade for a 6 year older player of equal size and production, with a longer contract at more per year?

Ummm....don't mention leadership. He's not the leader he was thought of in Buffalo in Philly. Drury was the leader here, not Briere. Drury played in all situations, not Briere. Drury left and is now a captain, not Briere.

Buffalo doesn't need another small player. No dis to Briere but he is not what Buffalo needs. No thanks.

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Old
04-02-2009, 01:45 PM
  #45
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Even if it was a straight 1 for 1, Briere and Roy are much better fits given their contracts and roles on the teams they're currently on.

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Old
04-02-2009, 01:56 PM
  #46
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The Flyers don't need Roy. They need:

1. A future starting goaltender
2. Another physical blueliner
and
3. High-value third liners to free up cap for the big contracts coming up

And no matter what, they can't take on any more salary.

Briere to Buffalo could make a lot of sense, but only with some combination of Enroth, Gaustad, Tallinder, etc., coming back.


Last edited by ThePiousInfant: 04-02-2009 at 02:01 PM.
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Old
04-02-2009, 02:05 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by ThePiousInfant View Post
The Flyers don't need Roy. They need:

1. A future starting goaltender
2. Another physical blueliner
and
3. High-value third liners to free up cap for the big contracts coming up

And no matter what, they can't take on any more salary.

Briere to Buffalo could make a lot of sense, but only with some combination of Enroth, Gaustad, Tallinder, etc., coming back.
Tallinder would be possible, but obviously not enough on his own. But Gaustad is too important to a team already lacking grit and Enroth is the only legit future #1 goaltender we have, so they're probably off the table.

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Old
04-02-2009, 04:17 PM
  #48
ColonelForbin
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Originally Posted by SabresFanNorhtPortFL View Post
Briere is 31, is 5'10" 179lbs and has 5 years left on his contract (I'm pretty sure he signed a 7 year deal) and has 95, 72 (-22) and 16 points the last 3 seasons. This year is really his only injury riddled season.

Roy is 25 right now, 5'9" 188lbs, and his last 3 seasons has had 63, 81 and 67 points, and played over 75 games in each season. Roy has 2 years left at 4mil per.

Why in the world would the Sabres trade for a 6 year older player of equal size and production, with a longer contract at more per year?

Ummm....don't mention leadership. He's not the leader he was thought of in Buffalo in Philly. Drury was the leader here, not Briere. Drury played in all situations, not Briere. Drury left and is now a captain, not Briere.

Buffalo doesn't need another small player. No dis to Briere but he is not what Buffalo needs. No thanks.
Briere averaged 1.2 PPG with Buffalo after the lockout. That was not only the 06-07' season, but the 05-06' season as well. Sometimes players don't fit as well on different teams and in different systems. In Buffalo, Briere produced significantly more than Roy has over the past few years.

They don't need another small player, that's why the trade is one small player for another.

If you don't think Briere was a leader on the team you weren't watching. Not to mention that he had about as many clutch goals in big games as Drury did, which is another thing the Sabres are missing big time right now.

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Old
04-02-2009, 06:44 PM
  #49
LEIFey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFanNorhtPortFL View Post
Briere is 31, is 5'10" 179lbs and has 5 years left on his contract (I'm pretty sure he signed a 7 year deal) and has 95, 72 (-22) and 16 points the last 3 seasons. This year is really his only injury riddled season.

Roy is 25 right now, 5'9" 188lbs, and his last 3 seasons has had 63, 81 and 67 points, and played over 75 games in each season. Roy has 2 years left at 4mil per.

Why in the world would the Sabres trade for a 6 year older player of equal size and production, with a longer contract at more per year?

Ummm....don't mention leadership. He's not the leader he was thought of in Buffalo in Philly. Drury was the leader here, not Briere. Drury played in all situations, not Briere. Drury left and is now a captain, not Briere.

Buffalo doesn't need another small player. No dis to Briere but he is not what Buffalo needs. No thanks.
briere not being captain in philly is no knock on briere. richards has been groomed as captain for a long time. to be honest, i'm surprised timonen didn't get the C. the flyers have plenty of leadership this season.

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Old
04-02-2009, 07:32 PM
  #50
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whatever the case is, i still don't think Buffalo would do it.

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