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Old
04-02-2009, 07:06 PM
  #101
Hubey1327
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Are you new to watching MLB? Cuz, lets be serious, spring training statistics have almost zero value.

Chan Ho Park has pitched 1,846 innings in MLB. There has been one truth throughout his career. He is a very, very tough pitcher to face in Dodger Stadium. You want to see him on the mound across from you in nearly every other stadium in the league. As he gets his ass lit up.

CBP is likely to be a nightmare for him. They never should have signed him.



Hey, hope you're right. But he has a long track record...and you know what's funny about change-ups? They are only effective if people respect your fastball. People tend to hit Chan Ho's out of the park.
ok they came in this spring saying whoever pitched better would start. chan ho did that so you guys gotta give up the happ argument cause apparently spring training statistics meant everything this time

and ok stat boy chan ho's gave up more ground balls then fly balls hit against him last year when happ gave up twice as many fly balls over grounders. i dont know about you but i would rather have grounders in CBP.

respect a fastball? majority of hits and homeruns are hit off of fastballs. its obviously alot easier to kill and leave up high then say a curve ball. it has nothing to do with respecting a fastball. it has everything to do with arm speed to fool the batter to think its a fastball. so learn the game.

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04-02-2009, 11:44 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Carrasco?
Unless they find another answer, they'll probably need him too: Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Happ, Carrasco. That team sinks rapidly if neither of those guys have a good chunk of experience. If one of them goes through growing pains in 2010 it shouldn't hurt beyond repair, but if both of them are essentially rookies there are huge problems. One of them needs to start learning on the job this year and Happ is much more ready for the majors than Carrasco at this point.

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04-03-2009, 08:44 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hubey1327 View Post
ok they came in this spring saying whoever pitched better would start. chan ho did that so you guys gotta give up the happ argument cause apparently spring training statistics meant everything this time
That's about as weak an argument as they come. You completely ignore the assertion that what the Phillies are doing is stupid. They should not have signed him in the first place, as he's only had success in one location throughout his entire career. They should not be entrusting the 5th starter spot to him, as he hasn't had success as a starter since 2001. Happ might not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I at least haven't seen him suck for almost an entire decade of playing baseball...and he might be pretty good if they give him a chance (the numbers between Park and Happ are very close in spring training).

The central point of the observation is that the Phils are stupid for looking at his spring training production and thinking this is a good idea. But, as said, lets hope they're onto something here...and it isn't another Adam Eaton.

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and ok stat boy chan ho's gave up more ground balls then fly balls hit against him last year when happ gave up twice as many fly balls over grounders. i dont know about you but i would rather have grounders in CBP.
In 2001, Chan Ho Park was a starting pitcher for the LA Dodgers. He had a good season...15 wins and 3.50 ERA. The next year, he left the Dodgers and began a career arc that reads like a murder scene.

5.75, 7.58, 5.46, 5.74, 4.81 (in SD, another pitcher's park)...and then got shelled in one outing with the Mets.

Last year, he returned to the one team he's ever had success with and posted a 3.40 ERA. His splits? 2.18 at home, and a 4.50 ERA on the road. Hitters hit at a .289 clip against him on the road.

In 2001, when he had a really good year as a starter, do you know what his splits were? 2.36 ERA at home, and a 4.83 ERA on the road. Which is why anyone who drafted him in fantasy for that next season was an idiot.

Hey, guess what, Ruben Amaro looks like one of those idiots right now!

What does all this suggest? If we are lucky...we're going to get a 5th starter who has a high 4s ERA, but the track record leans towards the 5s.

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respect a fastball? majority of hits and homeruns are hit off of fastballs. its obviously alot easier to kill and leave up high then say a curve ball. it has nothing to do with respecting a fastball. it has everything to do with arm speed to fool the batter to think its a fastball. so learn the game.
I actually know the game quite well. It's the sport I know the best from personal experience. If you can't throw a fastball for strikes on the corners, then no one is going to be chasing change-ups out of the strike zone. Unless you're Hamels, you do not throw change-ups for strikes, as a change-up that is left in the strike-zone is inviting slaughter.

So, you need the fastball to get the hitter to chase change-up...and Chan Ho has shown a propensity to leave his fastball up and out over the plate, which the friendly confines of Dodger Stadium hold extremely well (it's an epically good pitcher's park), and other stadiums do not.

If you think all there is to pitching is arm speed and knowing a pitch...you need to learn a lot more about the game. Gavin Floyd had some of the best pure pitches we've seen in a Phils uniform for a long time. He didn't know how to pitch, though, so he was getting killed here. Learned to use what he had once he got to the ChiSox, and his life has been the better for it.

And, for the record, the easiest pitch to hit out of the park is a hung curve...so, I'm not sure what the "leave up high" comment was about.


Last edited by Jester: 04-03-2009 at 08:50 AM.
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Old
04-03-2009, 09:28 AM
  #104
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i dont know why everyone thinks CBP is such a hitters park. the stadium ranked in the middle in runs and homeruns last year

i think its just because our team has been at the top of the league in runs scored the last couple years

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04-03-2009, 09:36 AM
  #105
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Anyone opposed to Sheffield as a right handed bench player?

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04-03-2009, 09:42 AM
  #106
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Anyone opposed to Sheffield as a right handed bench player?
not really. i wouldnt mind it as long as he isnt the cancer on the team like he used to be. we tried the whole contact hitter as the primary pinch hitter last year (so taguchi) and we all know how that turned out so i think it would be nice to get some power off the bunch

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04-03-2009, 10:04 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Hubey1327 View Post
not really. i wouldnt mind it as long as he isnt the cancer on the team like he used to be. we tried the whole contact hitter as the primary pinch hitter last year (so taguchi) and we all know how that turned out so i think it would be nice to get some power off the bunch
I agree with you. I doubt he comes here because he wants to start. Then again who in their right mind is gonna put him in the field on a day in and day out basis.

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04-03-2009, 10:08 AM
  #108
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I agree with you. I doubt he comes here because he wants to start. Then again who in their right mind is gonna put him in the field on a day in and day out basis.
i heard that the reds will only offer a bench role with a some platoon in the outfield. i dont think that many teams are really looking at him. the mets are thinking about it also

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04-03-2009, 10:09 AM
  #109
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Baseball talk and I'm not in it? haha

I have been reluctant to comment. I almost didnt want this season to start, cause that means we are World Champs all season, but it might come to an end soon. I don't want that.

Park sucks. He will last a month or 2 tops.

We need Happ and Carrasco ready for next year. One of Myers and Blanton is out. Hamels could get injured. We need people ready to go.

I hope Myers and Blanton stay. I think they are both solid pitchers, but I do hate Myers off the field antics and he scares the **** outta me when he is on the mound.

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04-03-2009, 10:13 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Baseball talk and I'm not in it? haha

I have been reluctant to comment. I almost didnt want this season to start, cause that means we are World Champs all season, but it might come to an end soon. I don't want that.

Park sucks. He will last a month or 2 tops.

We need Happ and Carrasco ready for next year. One of Myers and Blanton is out. Hamels could get injured. We need people ready to go.

I hope Myers and Blanton stay. I think they are both solid pitchers, but I do hate Myers off the field antics and he scares the **** outta me when he is on the mound.
just cause he has earned the nickname Brett "the hitman" Myers is not considered off field antics haha

i think drabek, if healthy, can be a sleeper for a starter job next year or the year after

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04-03-2009, 10:31 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hubey1327 View Post
i dont know why everyone thinks CBP is such a hitters park. the stadium ranked in the middle in runs and homeruns last year

i think its just because our team has been at the top of the league in runs scored the last couple years
Because historically (over more than just a single season) the park has most definitely been a hitters park. The numbers for 2005-7 put CBP near the tops of the league for hitters.

However, you are absolutely right that our teams production plays into that perception. Though, our home ERA has traditionally been pretty damn brutal as well.

Last year our pitching staff was extremely good, particularly the relief pitchers. Thus the offensive categories skewed down in all of our games. In addition, our own hitting production fell considerably from previous seasons. Last year we scored 799 runs (which was felt both at home and on the road), which was down from previous seasons of 892, and 865 runs.

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04-03-2009, 12:25 PM
  #112
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scratch sheffield the mets are reportedly very close to signing him

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04-03-2009, 12:32 PM
  #113
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- I don't want Sheff.

- Watching the Phils WS DVD, so awesome.

- SI picked the Mets to win it all, so that's a good sign for us.

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04-03-2009, 12:35 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
- I don't want Sheff.

- Watching the Phils WS DVD, so awesome.


- SI picked the Mets to win it all, so that's a good sign for us.
i hear they are showing it in the pregame on sunday so im excited to watch it again. i hear the coverage will start at 130 for an 8pm game

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04-03-2009, 12:45 PM
  #115
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i hear they are showing it in the pregame on sunday so im excited to watch it again. i hear the coverage will start at 130 for an 8pm game
Pretty much of the best day of my life. I was so pissed that I missed it, but I remember just walking in a daze through the streets of Rome and almost getting assaulted by police in some riot.

God, just so awesome, I still kind of tear up when I watch the DVD.

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04-03-2009, 12:58 PM
  #116
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Yea that DVD is amazing. The video yearbook is good too.

The best feature of the DVD is in the bonus section where you can watch the last outs of each of the clinching games with Harry Kalas calling it. Not joe buck.

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04-03-2009, 01:09 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
- I don't want Sheff.

- Watching the Phils WS DVD, so awesome.

- SI picked the Mets to win it all, so that's a good sign for us.
I think the combo of this, plus CC being on the cover had nothing to do with baseball and everything to do with selling magazines.

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04-03-2009, 01:15 PM
  #118
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I think the combo of this, plus CC being on the cover had nothing to do with baseball and everything to do with selling magazines.
Yeah probably, but it's still a good thing. Last year they had the Tigers winning it and us not in the playoffs.

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04-03-2009, 02:13 PM
  #119
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Yeah probably, but it's still a good thing. Last year they had the Tigers winning it and us not in the playoffs.
I remember a couple years back they picked for Super Bowl XLI, I think, the Panthers and Dolphins to be in it. Neither team made the playoffs.

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04-03-2009, 02:20 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Yea that DVD is amazing. The video yearbook is good too.

The best feature of the DVD is in the bonus section where you can watch the last outs of each of the clinching games with Harry Kalas calling it. Not joe buck.
I like the box set where u can watch every game. i love watching the 2nd part of game 5. That was so awesome, something unique and its still exciting even today. Im not gonna debate whether MLB screwed up or not im glad it played out that way, it makes the whole thing more memorable and great.

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04-03-2009, 02:34 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
- I don't want Sheff.

- Watching the Phils WS DVD, so awesome.

- SI picked the Mets to win it all, so that's a good sign for us.
ESPN's computer projection has the Phillies first in the division, 89-73 I believe, and the Mets 5 games behind.

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04-03-2009, 02:35 PM
  #122
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I remember a couple years back they picked for Super Bowl XLI, I think, the Panthers and Dolphins to be in it. Neither team made the playoffs.
I remember that one. I mean, I understand that they want to make an edgy forecast and that it's very difficult to gauge teams at the start of the season, but even at the time, I remember people saying that it was a moronic pick.

The NY bias in this one is amazing though. I mean, they have Jose Reyes ranked as the 4th most valuable player in baseball. I mean, seriously? Do I need to say any more after that?

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04-03-2009, 02:44 PM
  #123
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I remember that one. I mean, I understand that they want to make an edgy forecast and that it's very difficult to gauge teams at the start of the season, but even at the time, I remember people saying that it was a moronic pick.

The NY bias in this one is amazing though. I mean, they have Jose Reyes ranked as the 4th most valuable player in baseball. I mean, seriously? Do I need to say any more after that?
Baseball prospectus projects Reyes to be 4th among all hitters in VORP with 68.4, so that assertion is not as ridiculous as you make it out to be. (for reference, Chase Utley is the highest Phillie sitting at 8th with 55.8)

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04-03-2009, 02:48 PM
  #124
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Baseball prospectus projects Reyes to be 4th among all hitters in VORP with 68.4, so that assertion is not as ridiculous as you make it out to be. (for reference, Chase Utley is the highest Phillie sitting at 8th with 55.8)
Yeah, but he was 8th last year.

Also, how the hell do they have Utley at 55.8? He was at 63.5 last year and that was with playing with a bum hip.

I mean, I think Reyes is a great player, but given his consistent choking in clutch months (.243 in Sept 2008, .205 in Sept 2007), I'd rank him from 15-20 among MLB players (including pitchers), 4 seems excessively high.

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04-03-2009, 02:51 PM
  #125
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Yeah, but he was 8th last year.

Also, how the hell do they have Utley at 55.8? He was at 63.5 last year and that was with playing with a bum hip.

I mean, I think Reyes is a great player, but given his consistent choking in clutch months (.243 in Sept 2008, .205 in Sept 2007), I'd rank him from 15-20 among MLB players (including pitchers), 4 seems excessively high.
I think Utley may be a little low, but don't forget, he came out of the gate just ludicrously hot, which I think more than made up for the slow finish, as far as stats are concerned.

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