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List of 3rd Period collapses under Tortarella

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Old
04-03-2009, 08:32 AM
  #26
pld459666
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I guess that I define collapse differently.

I can see collapse in 2 of those games. The Boston game, if you want to cal that a collapse and the Atlanta game which was an absolute disaster.

Being up a goal and losing the game in today's NHL is not uncommon. Does it suck, absolutely, but not uncommon.

Being up 2 goals in the 3rd period and losing via OT or Shoortout is collapse.

Yes, the point is we have given points away and it may bite us in the ass. I don't disagree, but I do disagree about the collapsing portion of the argument.

I think that the problem lies in the fact that while this team is scoring more than it did under Renney, there's not enough guys up front that are willing to pay the price in front of the net to insert themselves into the prime scoring areas. There's still to much standing arund waiting for the other guy to make something happen.

Someone pointed out that conditioning may be a factor and I agree. Last night, the Rangers had pedal firmly put metal in the first and 2nd period and came out flat for the 3rd and they got burned because of it. They allowed Carolina to dictate the pace of the game after controling the game for the first 40 minutes.

I think that if Torts wants a fresher team in the 3rd period he should be willing to roll 4 lines in the 2nd.

Get the quick start in the 1st, maintain a level of energy in the 2nd by using his 4th line a bit more and keep his top 9 refreshed for a heavy load in the 3rd.

Something has to be done to keep an even keeled attack throughout the game.

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04-03-2009, 08:48 AM
  #27
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if the powerplay didnt suck so bad this would be a non issue. 2-2 game on the road in the 3rd period. no margin for error.

we had 4 pp chances in the 1st period last night and nothing. and its not just not scoring, its the momentum thats sucked out of this team when we go up a man and do nothing for 2 minutes. it changes our whole mojo. its killing this team. after some early success, we gone right back to awfulness on the pp.

on many nights, you take control of games early. we had a chance to do that last night and we didnt. and when you dont grab a team by the throat and jump on them early on the road when you get 4 pp chances in the 1st period, you just lose close games late. and we did.

even strength last night, we dominated. 2-2 game that should have been 4-2 if the pp was even average.

blame the pp play. thats our achilies heel. always has been, nothings changed.

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04-03-2009, 09:16 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
The Prucha obsession must end.
I think he was just pointing out that Prucha busted his ass while playing here. Which is true. We are still in the same season in which Prucha played for the Rangers. If Prucha's name was added to his post next season. Then your comment would hold some water.

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Old
04-03-2009, 09:28 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if the powerplay didnt suck so bad this would be a non issue. 2-2 game on the road in the 3rd period. no margin for error.

we had 4 pp chances in the 1st period last night and nothing. and its not just not scoring, its the momentum thats sucked out of this team when we go up a man and do nothing for 2 minutes. it changes our whole mojo. its killing this team. after some early success, we gone right back to awfulness on the pp.

on many nights, you take control of games early. we had a chance to do that last night and we didnt. and when you dont grab a team by the throat and jump on them early on the road when you get 4 pp chances in the 1st period, you just lose close games late. and we did.

even strength last night, we dominated. 2-2 game that should have been 4-2 if the pp was even average.

blame the pp play. thats our achilies heel. always has been, nothings changed.
Agreed 100%. The PP has killed this team all season. Heck, if they had a good PP Renney would probably still be coach. If they had a good PP the team could very well be near the top of the conference. Instead we're struggling to make the playoffs as the only playoff team in the East with a PP% less than 17.

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Old
04-03-2009, 09:32 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
It just shows the lack of leadership, fundamentals and dedication this team has when it matters. At least that's what i think.
Good post, but most people here seem to disagree...

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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The biggest problem is conditioning and an inability to play this style of hockey for 60 minutes methinks. They just look to constantly run out of gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
Staal looked gassed the entire game. With Rozsival out, he's leaned on the top 4 heavily and it appears to be taking a toll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
...Torts has 3rd period collapses due to playing too aggressive and giving up an odd-man rush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumrusherer View Post
IMO, it just looks like our guys dont trust themselves to attack in the 3rd periods and fall under the spell of trying to not make mistakes instead of trying to make the opposition make mistakes.
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
I also think the mentality of the players while up a goal in the 3rd may still be reverting back to a renneyesce state of mind...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I think that the problem lies in the fact that while this team is scoring more than it did under Renney, there's not enough guys up front that are willing to pay the price in front of the net to insert themselves into the prime scoring areas. There's still to much standing arund waiting for the other guy to make something happen.

Someone pointed out that conditioning may be a factor and I agree.
I think all of these could be reasons, and possibly ALL of them play into the collapses. Moreso than a perceived lack of "leadership" anyway.

PLD had the most obvious suggestion, play the 4th line more through the first 2 periods. Hard when they're not getting PP time though and the team spends 1/2 the period on the PP. Also hard when you don't have a reserve winger who can take more ice time than Orr and be swapped in for much more difficult games like this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if the powerplay didnt suck so bad this would be a non issue.
True and not true I'd say. Being up by an extra goal or 2 probably isn't going to prevent the collapse, all other things remaining constant.

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Old
04-03-2009, 09:59 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
True and not true I'd say. Being up by an extra goal or 2 probably isn't going to prevent the collapse, all other things remaining constant.
It depends. The Rangers had 7 powerplays. They scored one 1, that's 14.29%. This is about where they've been all season. Now going 2/7 is 28.57% which is well above their average for the season. However, a true contender should be turning on the powerplay at this time of the year. If not, the playoffs will be a disaster (if they make it). Scoring one goal during that 4 PP stretch may not have changed much. They tied the game before the period ended anyway. Scoring two would have made it a completely different game.

You have 4 PP, you make the other team pay for it. The Rangers never had the lead in this game. If you have a lead it's a lot different than playing from behind or in a tied game. Going into the 2nd 2-1 (or more) with the way the Rangers were playing could have made it a completely different game.

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Old
04-03-2009, 10:12 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
I think he was just pointing out that Prucha busted his ass while playing here. Which is true. We are still in the same season in which Prucha played for the Rangers. If Prucha's name was added to his post next season. Then your comment would hold some water.
The guy is gone. People just need to move on and forget him. Its really annoying. They make it like Prucha is Jesus.

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Old
04-03-2009, 10:24 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
The guy is gone. People just need to move on and forget him. Its really annoying. They make it like Prucha is Jesus.
You let something this small get to you ?

A lot of Ranger fans liked him and still do. There is nothing wrong with that.

I think Prucha is to short to be Jesus. Plus I don't think he can grow a full beard.

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04-03-2009, 11:38 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
The guy is gone. People just need to move on and forget him. Its really annoying. They make it like Prucha is Jesus.

I simply added Prucha to the list because although he had his struggles, you could never question his effort or consider him a lazy player.

I am the last person who was obsessed with Prucha. I was 100 percent in favor of trading the guy.

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Old
04-03-2009, 12:32 PM
  #35
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Well Prucha does have 10 points in 15 games on Phoenix while Avery has 10 points in 14 games and Antropov has 11 points in 14 games on the Rangers. Just saying...

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04-03-2009, 01:00 PM
  #36
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it's almost like i'm a prophet. i am about 98% effective in telling if we're about to get scored on. and i tell you, it always happens when we stop moving our feet and taking the body.

last night i was watching the game with my dad. ten seconds before the 3rd carolina goal i said, "wtf are they doing they're asleep on their feet..." bam. roofed.

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04-03-2009, 01:40 PM
  #37
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so in other words, this team is only as good as its players. You can change the system around to look better, but the results do not change materially because you really only have a few second liners and a bunch of third and fourth liners on this team along with a couple second pair defensemen with some third pair defensemen and nobody to push this team over the edge. It's not Torts' fault; nor is it Renney's. This, unforatunately, is the makeup of this team. Capable of playing very high caliber hockey, and capable of stinkers; in other words, an inconsistent, all-around average team, which, in this NHL, can fight for a 6-8 spot in the playoffs.

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04-03-2009, 02:00 PM
  #38
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That Panthers game hurts so much

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04-03-2009, 03:13 PM
  #39
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so in other words, this team is only as good as its players. You can change the system around to look better, but the results do not change materially because you really only have a few second liners and a bunch of third and fourth liners on this team along with a couple second pair defensemen with some third pair defensemen and nobody to push this team over the edge. It's not Torts' fault; nor is it Renney's. This, unforatunately, is the makeup of this team. Capable of playing very high caliber hockey, and capable of stinkers; in other words, an inconsistent, all-around average team, which, in this NHL, can fight for a 6-8 spot in the playoffs.
This is nothing new. It's the samething from season to season.

With the exception of around 5-6 years in the 70's and 5-6 year's in the 90's this has been the make up of the Rangers history.

As a fan of the team. Are we happy that they didn't finish dead last some seasons ? I in someways wish they would have. Whether you are the 17th seed or the 30th or the 21st ( when it was a 21 team league.) You still are out of the playoffs.

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Old
04-03-2009, 03:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The biggest problem is conditioning and an inability to play this style of hockey for 60 minutes methinks. They just look to constantly run out of gas.
I agree.

And that lies on Renney.

Torts will need to really condition these dudes this offseason.

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Old
04-03-2009, 03:58 PM
  #41
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I agree.

And that lies on Renney.

Torts will need to really condition these dudes this offseason.
Cause he played four lines ?

You could easily say it was Torts fault for playing 3 lines with a month left in the season. Both knew what they were getting into.

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04-03-2009, 04:42 PM
  #42
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it doesn't lie on Renney...it lies on Sather. Here's a newsflash: Drury, Gomez and others were never 20 minute guys in their career - more 17-18 minutes (and they weren't really counted on to carry teams, but that's another story). Now they're being asked to play more than they should be playing. So either Torts is crazy because of the way he divvies out ice time (and there's something to that), or, the GM picked a guy to coach the team who may not be the best-suited for this team. I'd like to see Potter get more than 6 minutes. I'd like to see Betts and Korps get more minutes too. I would not like to see Gomez on the PP (he didn't kill penalties in Jersey, so why now? It worked for Jersey and there are enough PKers on this team where he doesn't have to kill 'em). But Torts likes to ride his best people - and that's fine, although perhaps his best people are not the guys you want to ride and the depth of players (I mean, heck, we're relying on Avery to be a top goal scorer - arggh) just isnt' there. From Torts, I'd like to see some adjustments made as a result of this, although I have to say, after each game, it seems as though adjustments can be made, which is what we saw all season long. From Slats, I'd like to see him just retire.

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04-03-2009, 04:43 PM
  #43
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that sounds like a point-counterpoint line from Airplane!, Bluenote..."Shame, they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting into; I say let 'em crash".

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04-03-2009, 04:50 PM
  #44
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that sounds like a point-counterpoint line from Airplane!, Bluenote..."Shame, they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting into; I say let 'em crash".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_GJk...eature=related

This is no time to panic !

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04-03-2009, 06:20 PM
  #45
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that's very fitting, Bluenote...

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04-03-2009, 06:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
So far under Torts:

Feb 25 @Tor: blew 1-0 lead in 3rd pd -- Lost 2-1 in SO
Feb 26 Fla: blew 1-0 lead in 3rd pd -- Lost 2-1 in regulation
Mar 8 Bos: blew 3-1 lead in 3rd pd -- won 4-3
Mar 17 @Mon : blew leads of 2-1 and 3-2 in third -- won SO
Mar 22 Ott: gave up GAG in 3rd pd of 1-1 game -- lost 2-1
Mar 26 @ATL -- blew 4-2 lead in 3rd -- lost 5-4 in SO
Mar 28@Pit -- gave up GAG in 3rd after 3-3 tie -- lost 4-3
Apr 2@ Car: gave up GAG in 3rd after 2-2 tie -- lost 4-2

There you have it -- instead of a reasonable 5-0-3 record for 13 points (considering they lose in OT or SO against Ott, Pit and Caro), they went 2-4-2 for 6 points while concurrently giving extra points to Florida (2), Habs (1) and Canes (1)

I like Torts for what he brings and maybe he is the right guy for this team, but that right there is a friggin problem. I know we had the same problem under Renney, so i am not blaming the coach for all this.

It just shows the lack of leadership, fundamentals and dedication this team has when it matters. At least that's what i think.

Part of it has to do with goaltending, bad penalties etc, but I just outline games in which the Rangers threw away anywhere from 7-10 points in the standings.

I personally don't consider the Renney games in which we collapsed because we also had out share of last second wins against Boston, the Pens etc.

I just think this is a major problem and is what i will point to when.if we dont make the playoffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
I also want to add that giving up a go-ahead goal in the 3rd period is far from a collapse, but it shows that they are still failing to grasp the importance of that extra point.

Looking back at the 2007 and 2008 seasons in which we snuck into the playoffs, i think a big part were some terrible losses teams behind us had which enabled us to make it.

No it looks like the shoe is on the other foot.
Just think how much worse it could have been if Renney was still here.

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Old
04-03-2009, 07:51 PM
  #47
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this team looked tired last nigfht in the 3rd. prolly the result of not having a reliable 4th line. by reliable i mean- with colton orr on it.

ok, so heres what needs to happen or this team is looking at missing the playoffs.

from this point forward. and this will sound crazy i know but im dead serious. no more colton orr. he looked awful against the canes. he makes that line a liability. he isnt to blame for anything other than the guy

absolutely cannot skate a lick.

i would add voros back in and leave orr on the bench for the final games. i know voros cant fight but we need this team to make the playoffs. period. we need the 4th line to be able to take a shift until the 3rd period of close games. until then, they need to give the other 3 lines a blow so we arent dead in the 3rd.

4th line of voros betts and korpedo can atleast be a solid checking line. we have no other forwards to use unless we recall someone from the pack. i know this is whacko but really, what choice do we have. orr cant skate. the 4th line doesnt play if hes on it and we need them to contribute ice time atleast.

final 2 games home and home with philly and i know what you are thinking, but really, orr wont help us get into the playoffs and other will have to step up and throw down if nec. guys like mara, morris, avery, dubi and redden .......... ok well, maybe not redden.

boston
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all teams that can skate.

desperate times require desperate measures. bye bye colton.

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Old
04-03-2009, 08:32 PM
  #48
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Let's not forget what being unable to finish on our golden scoring opportunities throughout a game will do to a team. I don't think I've ever seen such great a inability to put the biscuit home in my life.

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