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#78 - 04.02.09 | NY Rangers @ Carolina Hurricanes | 7:00 PM - MSG (HD)

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04-03-2009, 06:25 PM
  #701
Burlington Bomb 26
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
To be honest, I see the exact opposite of what you listed in Marc Staal.
I mean seriously, "does not make the greatest desciscions w/the puck?" "Does not play it well off the boards?"

He is probably the most deceptive d-men in his zone in the entire league. His hockey sense in the defensive zone is reaching elite levels....yet we have ppl claiming he is overrated of all things.
_AC_ I know me and you don't really see eye to eye, but I agree with you 100% here. Wow, what the hell are you talking about man.(to Ciggy)

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04-03-2009, 07:32 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
_AC_ I know me and you don't really see eye to eye, but I agree with you 100% here. Wow, what the hell are you talking about man.(to Ciggy)
i'm happy that at least did one good thing with my post in bringing you 2 together


i'm not saying that he's doing it everygame, but too many for my liking: shakehead

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04-03-2009, 07:57 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
To be honest, I see the exact opposite of what you listed in Marc Staal.
I mean seriously, "does not make the greatest desciscions w/the puck?" "Does not play it well off the boards?"

He is probably the most deceptive d-men in his zone in the entire league. His hockey sense in the defensive zone is reaching elite levels....yet we have ppl claiming he is overrated of all things.

ohhh c'mon man, i've seen him do that move, like he's gonna go one way with the puck, and goes the other. wow.. i would like to see him decieve the goaltender a few times !

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04-03-2009, 08:04 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by ciggy View Post
ohhh c'mon man, i've seen him do that move, like he's gonna go one way with the puck, and goes the other. wow.. i would like to see him decieve the goaltender a few times !
that's coming

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04-03-2009, 08:15 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by ciggy View Post
ohhh c'mon man, i've seen him do that move, like he's gonna go one way with the puck, and goes the other. wow.. i would like to see him decieve the goaltender a few times !
There's a reason why he's a d-men. The other parts of his game will come gradually.

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04-03-2009, 08:29 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
There's a reason why he's a d-men. The other parts of his game will come gradually.
its my understanding he was an awesome offensive d amn in hartford , then renney got hold, is this true?

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04-03-2009, 09:17 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
To be honest, I see the exact opposite of what you listed in Marc Staal.
I mean seriously, "does not make the greatest desciscions w/the puck?" "Does not play it well off the boards?"

He is probably the most deceptive d-men in his zone in the entire league. His hockey sense in the defensive zone is reaching elite levels....yet we have ppl claiming he is overrated of all things.
whoa, i respect what ur saying and all but this is why staal is so hyped. staal is very inconsistent. man to man he's an exceptional defenseman. But he is not what you are making him out to be. He has the potential to be what everyone says no doubt but currently he is no where near what he is said to be. the only reason people make praise him is because the rest of the rangers defense is so bad that he's quite possibly the only gem the rangers have, the only hope they can see. i dont agree with it one bit, it is an awful amount of pressure to be putting on someone who is 22 years old. he has no mentor to teach him how to excel, he has a good line mate who also is inconsistent and then 4 holes to make up for. with the right guidance he can become one of hte best defensemen in the league, but right now his game has a lot of holes.

now to what you said up there... exactly what does being one of the most deceptive defensemen have to do with anything? i just found that silly. deception is absolutley the last thing a defender should have as a quality. if anything leave that to the forwards? and i absolutely do not see a hint more of deception in marc staal than i see in any other average defender in the league. what does he do exactly to qualify him for that? next you said he is getting to elite level?!?! well that is what i was talking about in putting pressure on a 22 year old kid. you cant do that man. not only that but that statement is completely false. staal has been in the league for 2 years. not even ovechkin and crosby were elite after 2 years. as with the last thing i looked at... what exactly makes him elite? he's awfully slow. but let's not use that against him, chara is also slow and he's in my eyes elite. but does marc staal have that 105 mph shot like chara? does he have the ability to transform an offense, a power play? no. not only that but staal is also frequently out of position. not knowing when to chip in, when to pass the puck and not carelessly take it into the oponents zone with minimal support. listen im not going to go on with just criticizing marc staal. i have like no hockey talent. it is easy for me to just sit here in front of a computer and judge. staal for his age is developping into a solid defender. he has the makings to be an elite defender. is he yet? no. will he be? i am very hopeful. personally he's my favorite ranger. he shows effort and commitment. but the way people make him out to be is wrong. you guys put too much pressure on him. it is his 2nd year, ofcourse he will be making mistakes. its natural. but to call him elite, well that's just plain ignorance.

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04-03-2009, 09:30 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
whoa, i respect what ur saying and all but this is why staal is so hyped. staal is very inconsistent. man to man he's an exceptional defenseman. But he is not what you are making him out to be. He has the potential to be what everyone says no doubt but currently he is no where near what he is said to be. the only reason people make praise him is because the rest of the rangers defense is so bad that he's quite possibly the only gem the rangers have, the only hope they can see. i dont agree with it one bit, it is an awful amount of pressure to be putting on someone who is 22 years old. he has no mentor to teach him how to excel, he has a good line mate who also is inconsistent and then 4 holes to make up for. with the right guidance he can become one of hte best defensemen in the league, but right now his game has a lot of holes.

now to what you said up there... exactly what does being one of the most deceptive defensemen have to do with anything? i just found that silly. deception is absolutley the last thing a defender should have as a quality. if anything leave that to the forwards? and i absolutely do not see a hint more of deception in marc staal than i see in any other average defender in the league. what does he do exactly to qualify him for that? next you said he is getting to elite level?!?! well that is what i was talking about in putting pressure on a 22 year old kid. you cant do that man. not only that but that statement is completely false. staal has been in the league for 2 years. not even ovechkin and crosby were elite after 2 years. as with the last thing i looked at... what exactly makes him elite? he's awfully slow. but let's not use that against him, chara is also slow and he's in my eyes elite. but does marc staal have that 105 mph shot like chara? does he have the ability to transform an offense, a power play? no. not only that but staal is also frequently out of position. not knowing when to chip in, when to pass the puck and not carelessly take it into the oponents zone with minimal support. listen im not going to go on with just criticizing marc staal. i have like no hockey talent. it is easy for me to just sit here in front of a computer and judge. staal for his age is developping into a solid defender. he has the makings to be an elite defender. is he yet? no. will he be? i am very hopeful. personally he's my favorite ranger. he shows effort and commitment. but the way people make him out to be is wrong. you guys put too much pressure on him. it is his 2nd year, ofcourse he will be making mistakes. its natural. but to call him elite, well that's just plain ignorance.
Reaching elite levels isn't calling him elite just yet. Way to be ignorant.

Deception is a very nice quality for a d-men. What good is a d-men that is always readable. Where his plays are read before they are made. The more decieveing a d-men is, the better his plays are out of the defensive zone. No where did I overhype his play in my posts. I just described his game. To call him overrated, it's those people that should probably go watch baseball or something.

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04-03-2009, 09:34 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by ciggy View Post
its my understanding he was an awesome offensive d amn in hartford , then renney got hold, is this true?
Who? Marc Staal? He only played 12 playoff games in HFTD-- He basically came to the pro's right off the bat.

In sudbury he was so-so in terms of offense. But to be honest, people shouldn't judge his game based on offense. He is more of the shut-down type player.

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04-03-2009, 09:41 PM
  #710
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when you say he's reaching elite levels it implies he has basically gotten to the point where he is almost htere... which he is not.

also i dont know where you thought of that deception thing? a defender's job is not go out and make some sort of spectacular play where he tricks out all 5 men of the opposing team.

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04-03-2009, 09:58 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
when you say he's reaching elite levels it implies he has basically gotten to the point where he is almost htere... which he is not.

also i dont know where you thought of that deception thing? a defender's job is not go out and make some sort of spectacular play where he tricks out all 5 men of the opposing team.
lol you're making me laugh. Stop writing. Yes he is almost there.

Where I thought of the deception thing? How about you watch some hockey? I mean really watch it. Not do 40 things while watching the game at the same time. A defenders job is to....defend. But there are different levels of defenders. Those who are just average; 5-6 pairing. Those who are above average; 3-4 pairing, and than those who are good to elite; 1-2 pairing. Marc Staal is just that...a 1-2 pairing d-men. Put a offensive d-men(MDZ) next to him and you got a solid duo.

I mean seriously. I sometimes question if you guys watch these games. He's too slow?(and when does being slow have anything to do with deception)? He is soft? and better yet, the one that made me laugh like a little school girl was----> he's always out of position. Are we describing Tom Poti or what? These are abysmal descriptions of a player that is going to be a special component of this team moving on. I mean there's being conservative, and then there's being awfully stupid with some of these aquisitons about Staal. Give it a rest already, and watch the kid play instead of day dreaming.

You can reply back to this post, but I won't write back because you obviously dont get it.

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04-03-2009, 10:28 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
lol you're making me laugh. Stop writing. Yes he is almost there.

Where I thought of the deception thing? How about you watch some hockey? I mean really watch it. Not do 40 things while watching the game at the same time. A defenders job is to....defend. But there are different levels of defenders. Those who are just average; 5-6 pairing. Those who are above average; 3-4 pairing, and than those who are good to elite; 1-2 pairing. March staal is just that...a 1-2 pairing d-men. Put a offensive d-men(MDZ) next to him and you got a solid duo.

I mean seriously. I sometimes question if you guys watch these games. He's too slow?(and when does being slow have anything to do with deception)? He is soft? and better yet, the one that made me laugh like a little school girl was----> he's always out of position. Are we describing Tom Poti or what? These are abysmal descriptions of a player that is going to be a special component of this team moving on. I mean there's being conservative, and then there's being awfully stupid with some of these aquisitons about Staal. Give it a rest already, and watch the kid play instead of day dreaming.
laugh out loud. you are hysterical. maybe you should watch a hockey game without all the bias that you read and are presented to. have you ever even watched del zotto play? or is that somehting you just happened to say because half the board is making him out to be a mesiah? i wont get into mdz b/c well i want to finish this argument of staal. first of all... are you stupid? set aside that the person we're talking aobut is del zotto. you basically told me put an offensive defenseman with a shut down defensman. real smart. that way when one defenseman goes to shoot the other can be the defenseman on the 3 on 1. secondly... im aware of the fact of line pairings. and taking all of that into consideration marc staal should NOT be on the 1st pairing. he lacks the experience to play it. that's all that should be said. he should be a 2nd pairing. someone in a transition to play the main role. he shouldnt have this ridiculous playing time. that is the mistake of renney and tortorella. and in fact it is hindering his play. dont give me this crap that he's elite. he isnt. he's no where near it. go watch dion phaneuf play, go watch cristian souray play, sergei gonchar, chris pronger, brian campbell, etc. they are all 1st pairing defenders and you are telling me that staal is comparable to them? absolutley not. please just dont evne argue this anymore. it is based on all the positive things you hear the announcers say, and all the hype you read about him. if YOU actually watched the game you would be able to see this all. yet for someone who apparently intently watches every game you have no sense of this. in fact you are making staal out to be this polished defender who is right about to become the best defender the nhl has ever seen. third... i never said he was soft. in fact his physicality is the only good part to his game that i see. but im glad you laugh like a little school girl. fourth... it is undeniable that staal has a lack of common sense. watch how teams penalty kill. generally they tend to clear the puck or atleast attempt to clear it on their first attempt. yesterday alone i witnessed the exact antithesis of how a penalty kill should be executed by staal. evidence in the first goal carolina scored. staal had an opportunity to drive it hard out of the zone, or atleast try to, yet he held the puck, tried a little weak pass up the boards and then was idle until the goal was scored. had he been a top defender he would have noticed the 3 carolina players migrating towards him and would tried in all his power to clear the puck. instead his lack of experience allowed him to hold the puck, try a chip pass to another player, which was understandably stolen, and then was helpless in preventing hte goal he basically started. also let's not get in on the atlanta game where staal was in on all 4 goals

if you havent noticed staal is constantley out of position. the defender has no role carrying the puck behind the opposing team's net... yet staal was found there 4 times last night. 4! are you joking? that's going back to common sense. he has NO place in being that far deep in the zone. if he wanted to go there so badly he should have trained to be a forward. i realize there is being conservative and awfully stupid, but ur basis for this argument is very shallow.

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04-03-2009, 10:37 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
You can reply back to this post, but I won't write back because you obviously dont get it.
you should reply back to this post. i want to see what other stupid reasonings you have. its amusing watching you try and argue this.

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04-03-2009, 10:56 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
you should reply back to this post. i want to see what other stupid reasonings you have. its amusing watching you try and argue this.
I have no time, I'm at work. Besides it's hard to read what you wrote; but from what I see you view a defender totally different than me. Personally, I see many hybrid defenders out there. You seem to think there is only one thing defenders should do.

Sheldon Souray is more offensive. How are you even comparing Souray with Staal? They are two differen't players.

Dion Phaneuf Yeah, i'd definitley say he's above Staal. He's the complete package out there defensively and offensively. But Staal shouldn't be judged by his offensive game. I said it once, and I'll say it again. A d-men can be elite by his defensive abilities alone; atleast that's how I view it. That's why he's considered a d-men and not a scoring forward. He's a defensive d-men more than anything else to me, and is going to be a darn good one.

All i'll do is agree to disagree with you. That's all.

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04-03-2009, 11:07 PM
  #715
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i told u i respected ur opinion before this all began. in fact i have a very similar view of what a defender should be like you. but our difference point is marc staal and his ability to play that role in both of our eyes. you see him as near complete, i see him as a lot of room for improvement. he has a lot of future, but i just cant see him in the first line yet. his role on the 1st line presently should be inexistant but since the rangers have no one better he is their man, giving this false impression that he is ready or close to ready to performing like a star.

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