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Old
04-04-2009, 09:51 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
For that Dive, they called the trip and the dive.
Yes, but he did not take a dive.

No other player on the roster gets called for that penalty in that same situation.

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04-04-2009, 09:52 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I have zero tolerance for stupid players. What he did is the worst thing you can do to get a penalty. Yapping at the ref and getting kicked out of the game. God forbid if this would have been a playoff game, or a game that meant more in the standings. It's a far cry from sneezing.
I'll be interested to hear what he said.

It better have been a death threat or something.

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04-04-2009, 09:54 PM
  #103
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Im sure what he said was bad enough. The ref isnt going to give him 22 for nothing, even if he is Carcillo

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04-04-2009, 09:58 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
I'll be interested to hear what he said.

It better have been a death threat or something.
There is a specific protocol when it comes to on-ice conduct. He didn't call the ref an idiot, I'm sure that happens all the time. It had to be something in that realm for him to not only get another penalty, but ejected altogether. I said in the GDT, the only time I can think of that I ever even seen this was with Chris Simon when he made a racial slur to Joe Juneau, which I believe he was suspended for and forced to write a written apology. Whatever he said, it was an automatic trigger, with little subjectivity. And that's inexcusable. Like with Downie, I don't want guys on the ice that I'm afraid he's going to do something stupid and cost the team.

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04-04-2009, 10:03 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I would love to hear from the people who were saying how much better offensivly Carcillo is than Upshall.
I wouldn't say he is better, maybe even. Upshall hasn't done enough offensively for me to consider him a good offensive player, and Carcillo is also over a year younger. Both have room to grow and I think if Carcillo can start to use his half decent hands for good, I think we'll be happy with what he becomes. People need to stop putting players up on a podium because they haven't really accomplished much (i.e. Downie and Upshall) and do not deserve to be there. A former first round pick that has career high numbers of 30 points and 14 goals is NOT someone you worry about losing. 6th overall pick too...what a waste.

We like the type of player Upshall is -- fiesty, fast, agitator, makes things happen out there -- but frankly for what he will command in salary and his missed potential, he is a fluke of a player who should have done much, much more in his career up to this point. Even though when he was drafted he was considered to be nothing more than a future 3rd liner at best (wow, surprise surprise) there will always be this stigma that he needs to be more. And he won't be.

There is no way that Carcillo has played his way off the team after tonight. The officiating was horrible and he probably just let that be known. To get thrown out like that is just another case of a referee being bigger than the game. I've reffed plenty of games and its taken me much longer to throw someone out than what those guys did tonight. If Jones and Alberts are still on this team, I doubt Carcillo leaves.

The majority of this board needs to realize Upshall was nothing special -- a nice player to have, but so was Vaananen and we're doing just fine without these interchangeable parts. Powe does the same type of job that Upshall does and is gaining confidence game by game. If he can drop in 20 points a season at the NHL level, then we're looking at a cheaper version of Upshall.

Moving the second rounder in the deal was questionable at best. Might have been because we were up so close to the cap and Holmgren was desperate, but still -- tough to give up. But we need to stop with this Upshall euphoria because he isn't as skilled or important as we make it him out to be.

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04-04-2009, 10:04 PM
  #106
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After he was sat down by Holmgren, I didn't think we'd see any "yapping" issues for a while. It surprised me.

I still want to know what he said, though.

Quote:
Whatever he said, it was an automatic trigger, with little subjectivity.
Perhaps, but this incident feels a little like authoritarian ego came into play, especially after the disjointed attempt to pin a boarding on him after Ruutu tackled him.

I'm sure he was guilty of yapping, but this feels like a "**** you" call.

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04-04-2009, 10:06 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
There is a specific protocol when it comes to on-ice conduct. He didn't call the ref an idiot, I'm sure that happens all the time. It had to be something in that realm for him to not only get another penalty, but ejected altogether. I said in the GDT, the only time I can think of that I ever even seen this was with Chris Simon when he made a racial slur to Joe Juneau, which I believe he was suspended for and forced to write a written apology. Whatever he said, it was an automatic trigger, with little subjectivity. And that's inexcusable. Like with Downie, I don't want guys on the ice that I'm afraid he's going to do something stupid and cost the team.
I am almost pretty sure (little 3EB flashback) that what he said was probably nothing lovely or friendly, but that was just another case of a referee being bigger than the game. The officiating tonight was terrible and inconsistent and this was one of their many mistakes tonight.

Now, if we find out what was said and he is suspended because of it, then okay, but I doubt he will be and we'll all see that its part of this terrible group we call referees once again ruining the game.

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Old
04-04-2009, 10:09 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
I am almost pretty sure (little 3EB flashback) that what he said was probably nothing lovely or friendly, but that was just another case of a referee being bigger than the game.
I think you're on the right track.

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04-04-2009, 10:09 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Carcillo has played his way off the team, in my view.
I have to agree. Really what does he bring to the table? Is he the missing piece of the puzzle we need to advance in the playoffs? I think not.

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04-04-2009, 10:19 PM
  #110
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Carcillo apparently has a history of this, according to Coyotes fans. It could be a case where he just isn't getting it, and the refs just won't take his ****.

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04-04-2009, 10:21 PM
  #111
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I shall return when it becomes evident exactly what caused Carcillo to be ejected.

EDIT:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/break.../42482132.html

Quote:
"I don't think you can ever show emotion toward a referee; they're out there trying to do their job, and your emotion has to be on the ice and against your opponent," said Stevens, who talked to Carcillo after the period.
Still vague...

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Old
04-04-2009, 10:34 PM
  #112
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It doesn't even matter what he said. It's that he didn't know any better to keep his mouth shut.

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04-05-2009, 12:00 AM
  #113
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How's this for a stat...

Upshall, tonight, leads all the Coyote forwards with ice time (19+ minutes)...with 3 minutes remaining.

The Coyotes are down 6-1.

...and no. He doesn't have the goal.

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04-05-2009, 12:06 AM
  #114
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He had the game winner the other night though.

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04-05-2009, 12:18 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He had the game winner the other night though.
Yes, he did. He's playing really well for the Yotes, no question.

I'd also be willing to bet that he's put his team down a man as much has Carcillo has since the trade.

On top of that, I'd hazard to guess Carcillo has drawn more penalties than Upshall has since the trade.

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04-05-2009, 01:04 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
I'd also be willing to bet that he's put his team down a man as much has Carcillo has since the trade.

On top of that, I'd hazard to guess Carcillo has drawn more penalties than Upshall has since the trade.
I considered posting several different responses to this, all of which would probably be deleted for one reason or another.

But, I'd like to express my approval towards this rational, reason-based turn of events in this thread.

There's sensible sunlight breaking through the clouds of faux-outrage.

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04-05-2009, 01:05 AM
  #117
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I cant believe they got him for boarding on a clean hit , and then gave him a misconduct for yelling.

I've never seen a player like this targeted by the refs.

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04-05-2009, 01:07 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Like with Downie, I don't want guys on the ice that I'm afraid he's going to do something stupid and cost the team.
There are so many other things that cost the team, that you don't make nearly as much of a big deal about. I wish certain fans would just admit that they want their favorite team to act like the Boy Scouts so it would make it easier for them on the internet, and they'd have less to answer for. Actually, I wish people would just stop moralizing like that in general.

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04-05-2009, 01:13 AM
  #119
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Jesus ****ing christ, how many more Carcillo Upshall debates do we ****ing need!?


How is this for an Idea, for both sides of the argument.

GET OVER IT! This trade will not be untraded, Carcillo ****ed up earlier, we all know. Who ****ing cares, the Flyers take more penalties than anyone and they have before Carcillo got here, but for some odd reason, it doesn't matter what kind of penalty he takes, if he takes one this debacle is sure to follow.

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04-05-2009, 01:17 AM
  #120
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Carcillo has Downie-like anger without the skill. It's time people wake up and realize that.

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04-05-2009, 01:17 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Carcillo has Downie-like anger without the skill. It's time people wake up and realize that.
Most people are realistic about Carcillo's abilities.

But, that big sweeping statement like "It's time for people to wake up..." lended a sense of urgency to your comment - so, it must be really important.

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04-05-2009, 01:21 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Carcillo has Downie-like anger without the skill. It's time people wake up and realize that.
Because Carcillo mouthed off to a ref about one of the worst calls I have ever seen, you are comparing Carcillo's "anger" to Downie?

Seriously?

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04-05-2009, 01:21 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
Most people are realistic about Carcillo's abilities.

But, that big sweeping statement like "It's time for people to wake up..." lended a sense of urgency to your comment - so, it must be really important.
At least you didn't mix up "there" and "their" again. I'm happy for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pope Pogo II View Post
Because Carcillo mouthed off to a ref about one of the worst calls I have ever seen, you are comparing Carcillo's "anger" to Downie?

Seriously?
Um, yes. Educate yourself on where his reputation started. It has little to do with mouthing off to a ref in one game.

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04-05-2009, 01:24 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
At least you didn't mix up "there" and "their" again. I'm happy for you.



Um, yes. Educate yourself on where his reputation started. It has little to do with mouthing off to a ref in one game.
Funny, last I remember, I don't remember Carcillo ever slashing the officials, or flying through the air trying to decapitate people. I am curious how many career games has Downie been suspended so far?

I can sort of see the comparison slightly in terms of a loose cannon goes, but what Carcillo has done with the Flyers thus far does not even come CLOSE to the **** Downie pulled.

I'll continue to educate myself though.

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04-05-2009, 01:30 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Pope Pogo II View Post
Funny, last I remember, I don't remember Carcillo ever slashing the officials, or flying through the air trying to decapitate people. I am curious how many career games has Downie been suspended so far?

I can sort of see the comparison slightly in terms of a loose cannon goes, but what Carcillo has done with the Flyers thus far does not even come CLOSE to the **** Downie pulled.

I'll continue to educate myself though.
Ah, but see, his reputation started long before the Flyers and long before the NHL, just like Downie's. Things like trying to decapitate guys with his stick...

What Carcillo did tonight is just the tip of the iceberg. He's capable of much more and don't be surprised when it happens.

Downie is a loose cannon, so is Carcillo. There's no difference in their ability to be ****ing idiots.

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