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Old
04-05-2009, 01:35 AM
  #126
Readyrock
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It doesn't look like we're going to find out why Carcillo was ejected. Most articles on the game say something like this (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Sports/...728/story.html):

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Were not sure what exactly was said, but suffice it to say its not appropriate for a family newspaper.
Hmmm...

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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
At least you didn't mix up "there" and "their" again. I'm happy for you.
Neither of those words appeared in my comment anyway...

Did you need to respond that badly? And with an arbitrary insult? I suppose I'm glad someone's keeping track of my english transgressions. Cool story, DOYS. Cool story.

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04-05-2009, 01:44 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
Neither of those words appeared in my comment anyway...

Did you need to respond that badly? And with an arbitrary insult? I suppose I'm glad someone's keeping track of my english transgressions. Cool story, DOYS. Cool story.
Did you? Once again appearing in the Upshall thread defending Carcillo?

My insult isn't arbitrary. It was in response to a facetious statement made by you about how important my post was.

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04-05-2009, 03:41 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
How's this for a stat...

Upshall, tonight, leads all the Coyote forwards with ice time (19+ minutes)...with 3 minutes remaining.

The Coyotes are down 6-1.

...and no. He doesn't have the goal.
Hmm,
I wonder what you would do if Phoenix offered you Upshall and a 2nd round pick for Carcillo?

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Old
04-05-2009, 09:31 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Hmm,
I wonder what you would do if Phoenix offered you Upshall and a 2nd round pick for Carcillo?
Absolutely.

But not with $23k (or whatever that number was) cap room, because it was that tight.

Sure we could have limped into the playoffs (with Upshall), but there was clearly an issue between the Flyers and Briere. Also, if we had suffered another injury, it would mean Giroux would have had to been sent down.

Clearly, by the trade...Upshall wasn't in the long term plans of the Flyers, and Holmgren brought in a cheaper option to offer some cap relief and toughness...signed thru the following season. Something Upshall wasn't.

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04-05-2009, 09:54 AM
  #130
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so the most penalized team in hockey trades for the most penalized player in hockey. Seems like a winning strategy especially considering how important special teams are in the playoffs.

I don't have a problem that we didn't get equal value back for Upshall because we weren't going to. He wasn't producing to his abilities here. But if the goal was cap space we could have at least traded for another scrub who makes the same or less than Carcillo but does not add to our penalty problem. Carcillo is a 4th liner which is evident by the fact we had to move Asham up to get any kind of production out of the 3rd line.

Also, the claim that Holmgren made the trade out of desperation is ridiculous. There are 28 other teams that would have traded their 4th liner for Upshall and a 2nd.

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Old
04-05-2009, 10:15 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Yes, he did. He's playing really well for the Yotes, no question.

I'd also be willing to bet that he's put his team down a man as much has Carcillo has since the trade.

On top of that, I'd hazard to guess Carcillo has drawn more penalties than Upshall has since the trade.
None of which were as stupid as getting kicked out of the game for unsportsmanlike conduct. Carcillo clearly has a reputation that was ignored when we traded for him. I can't wait for the day he is gone.

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Old
04-05-2009, 10:20 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
None of which were as stupid as getting kicked out of the game for unsportsmanlike conduct. Carcillo clearly has a reputation that was ignored when we traded for him. I can't wait for the day he is gone.
He said the magic words, he's not the first Flyer, nor will he be the last to get hit with an unsportmanlike. Clearly he said something particularly bad, but Briere and Richards get them from time to time as well.

The factor of Carcillo's rep has come into play in more subtle ways. If he's not Carcillo, he probably doesn't get called (retroactively) for the boarding last night. He got called for a dive against the Pens that was clearly not a dive...hasn't gotten calls for high-sticking on him recently. There's some baggage there that matters.

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04-05-2009, 10:26 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He said the magic words, he's not the first Flyer, nor will he be the last to get hit with an unsportmanlike. Clearly he said something particularly bad, but Briere and Richards get them from time to time as well.

The factor of Carcillo's rep has come into play in more subtle ways. If he's not Carcillo, he probably doesn't get called (retroactively) for the boarding last night. He got called for a dive against the Pens that was clearly not a dive...hasn't gotten calls for high-sticking on him recently. There's some baggage there that matters.
It probably won't look like it (as this is more of a general response), but we're pretty much on the same page. However, it's apparently not the first time according to Coyotes fans. He took a selfish penalty that had a direct result in the team's fortune in the game. Stevens seemed to be mum about it, but he was a lot more vocal last year when Upshall took a penalty, and threw him under the bus...which was at least within the course of the game.

Regardless of whether or not he gets singled out for such things, he should know better. As I keep saying, I have zero tolerance for stupid players, even less for selfish players. I can't wait for this to happen in the playoffs and have it be absolved by people because 'well, it happens because it's Carcillo so it's ok." Not ok.

I've seen Flyers get hit with it for yapping at the ref, but I've never seen any of our guys given a game misconduct for it. On top of that, he did it at a very bad time.


I'm tired of dumb players who were paraded around here and we're supposed to warm up to just because we're told to do so.

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04-05-2009, 10:31 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I've seen Flyers get hit with it for yapping at the ref, but I've never seen any of our guys given a game misconduct for it. On top of that, he did it at a very bad time.


I'm tired of dumb players who were paraded around here and we're supposed to warm up to just because we're told to do so.
I'm sure he got the gate because he just didn't shut up after the first 2...at the end of the day, it's the first 2 minutes that are the problem, not the game misconduct. And, absolutely, you have to know time and place...

While I agree that he was screwed on the first call, we still ended up with a PP out of it. So, really, everything was fine. It was dumb, and yes he had that reputation with the Coyotes as well...so, par for the course.

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Old
04-05-2009, 10:41 AM
  #135
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I don't know if you read through the GDT or not, personally, if I was the coach and he wasn't given a game misconduct, he isn't seeing the ice again anyways. The ref did what Stevens should have done if he was given the chance.

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04-05-2009, 10:44 AM
  #136
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Carcillo also killed Richards' offensive game when they played together.

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04-05-2009, 10:46 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Carcillo also killed Richards' offensive game when they played together.
I think that has more to do with Richards being bumped to the 3rd line (blame Stevens) than anything.

I know he played with Carcillo...but Richards (IMO) has no business playing other 3rd line players...Lupul included.

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04-05-2009, 10:55 AM
  #138
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Richards and Lupul used to play great together. I dont care what anyone says, this was still a stupid move by Holmer and it would have made more sense to trade one of Carle or Jones for a cheaper D to get cap room. Or just waiving Cote when we needed Syvret up.

Not to mention what this trade has probably done to the dressing room, especially after the last game


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Old
04-05-2009, 11:08 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
I think that has more to do with Richards being bumped to the 3rd line (blame Stevens) than anything.

I know he played with Carcillo...but Richards (IMO) has no business playing other 3rd line players...Lupul included.
Wait though, we were told Carcillo can play on the 'top lines.' Surely that would mean playing with these caliber of players, especially with the depth we have at forward. If he's going to be a contributor to the standard the Flyers expect of him, he's going to have to be able to play with these guys, and they will have to be able to play with him.

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04-05-2009, 11:10 AM
  #140
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So trade defenseman (Carle and/or Jones) who are clearly overpaid?

I don't for the life of me, see why you think teams would do this? Seriously.

Sure it makes sense for the Flyers, but not for other teams. Teams weren't jumping at the opportunity to add salary at the deadline for struggling players on fat contracts.
Exactly, Upshall, because he was on a reasonable contract, had some trade value.

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04-05-2009, 11:10 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Richards and Lupul used to play great together. I dont care what anyone says, this was still a stupid move by Holmer and it would have made more sense to trade one of Carle or Jones for a cheaper D to get cap room. Or just waiving Cote when we needed Syvret up.

Not to mention what this trade has probably done to the dressing room, especially after the last game
So trade defenseman (Carle and/or Jones) who are clearly overpaid?

I don't for the life of me, see why you think teams would do this? Seriously.

Sure it makes sense for the Flyers, but not for other teams. Teams weren't jumping at the opportunity to add salary at the deadline for struggling players on fat contracts.

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Old
04-05-2009, 11:28 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The factor of Carcillo's rep has come into play in more subtle ways. If he's not Carcillo, he probably doesn't get called (retroactively) for the boarding last night. He got called for a dive against the Pens that was clearly not a dive...hasn't gotten calls for high-sticking on him recently. There's some baggage there that matters.
you nailed it. Im a Yotes season ticket holder and was a huge carcillo fan.(many nights he was the only reason fans got on their feet) but that said there is alot of baggage that comes with dan. it comes from his rookie season. in 57games last year he had 324 min in the box...be fore the trade he had 54 games and 174min. but alot were dumb moves, selfish trips to the box. so Gretzky benched him... a lot.

anyway...early in his rookie season after a fight where the refs jumped in prematurely Carcillo shoved the Ref. and was ejected and i think he got a 1 game suspension but i could be wrong. well after that game if a guy fell down around dan he would get called for a trip or a hook. he took alot of bs calls and everyone knew it they just told him to keep his mouth shut about it. he didnt. once he got a bad call...he started yapping at the ref got a game misconduct...rumor was he tore apart his locker or had a major tantrum in the lockerroom. he then was sent down to play on the SA rampage for 5 games.

hes got a big target on his back with the refs. he cant get away with anything so it never hurts to take a dive around dan. As much as dan was a fan fav down here Upshall is filling the void. not in the fighting of course but he fits great. 6 goals 4 assists since the trade. playing around 20 a game and 24pim....since the trade dan has 80. upshall has been on the one constant line that has stayed together since the deadline. (upshall-lombardi-Prucha) seems to have great chemistry.

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04-05-2009, 11:33 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Wait though, we were told Carcillo can play on the 'top lines.' Surely that would mean playing with these caliber of players, especially with the depth we have at forward. If he's going to be a contributor to the standard the Flyers expect of him, he's going to have to be able to play with these guys, and they will have to be able to play with him.
that was the line they kept selling us here in phx. they had dan playing on the first line with Jokinen and Mueller...jokinen had his worst year ever and mueller got off to a slow start and never recovered. not that that was dans fault i think the expectations were too high. yes he scored 13 goals his rookie year but alot came late in the season when the yotes were well out of the playoff picture and teams just didnt play us hard. we faced alot of back up goalies and teams letting rookies see more ice time. He scored 5 goals in the last 2 games! season was over long before that


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Old
04-05-2009, 11:38 AM
  #144
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Meh. Upshall wasn't the stud that everyone here thinks he was but I'd much rather have him than Carcillo.

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04-05-2009, 11:47 AM
  #145
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this thread kills me. I was watching nhl live during the trade deadline and when the trade happened Bill Clement's jaw dropped and all he could say is that this trade had to lead to something else and that they wouldnt have made this trade if it wasnt needed for another trade that day.

I made this point before and it was overlooked, so someone please find my reasoning wrong because if not I have lost all faith in the GM......Alberts is a UFA and will not be brought back next year. He makes 1.2 which is exactly what Upshall makes. If they traded Alberts or demoted him and brought back Sbsia or brought up a defenseman or even kept Vanaanen there is no cap problem.

BTW Im still waiting to love Carcillo. The guy is Downie without Downie's playmaking ability. I liked Downie and Ive forgotten he even played for the Flyers now, but the Upshall trade still hurts like the Williams trade. GM's should never trade fan favorites.

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Old
04-05-2009, 05:51 PM
  #146
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that was the line they kept selling us here in phx. they had dan playing on the first line with Jokinen and Mueller...jokinen had his worst year ever and mueller got off to a slow start and never recovered. not that that was dans fault i think the expectations were too high. yes he scored 13 goals his rookie year but alot came late in the season when the yotes were well out of the playoff picture and teams just didnt play us hard. we faced alot of back up goalies and teams letting rookies see more ice time. He scored 5 goals in the last 2 games! season was over long before that
Eh, Carcillo played first line with Jokinen and Mueller for about 2-3 weeks before the trade line, although it should've been longer since he was one of the only guys on our team that Jokinen played well with. Olli's numbers were fine with Carcillo; it was his month-long slump before that, as well as his lazy play and the fact that he clearly didn't want to be here that yanked my chain. And Mueller, one of our stars last year, has been worse than Carcillo lately. I don't know what we did to last year's rookies, but I'm not impressed. I also thought Carcillo's late season goals were pretty impressive and showed a lot of promise, particularly the one he made while being checked to the ground, and both games were against playoff teams playing for advantage in the postseason. He was also our only player besides Martin Hanzal who scored in either of them, so they couldn't have been being too easy on us.

I love Upshall and think he's a huge asset to our team, and I'm not a fan of Carcillo's more extreme behaviors, but I absolutely think Carcillo could be a very valuable part of a team if used correctly. Last year he had points roughly every other game, and he's good along the boards. He had like 4X as many goals as he does this year in fewer games, and actually, in the 18 games before that in which he was a call up, he had more goals than he does this whole season. This year he's slumping. It's by far the worst he'll ever be.

No matter how big a dick he is on the ice, his teammates seem to like him, no small feat for a guy who plays the way he does. And to be fair, the vast majority of his penalties the latter part of the season are from fighting, whereas last year he was getting himself thrown out of the game regularly. He can take a fighting major every game and it's not going to hurt his team, especially if A. he wins, which he usually does, and B. he's not scoring anyway.

Carcillo's reputation is a huge problem. He regularly gets called for things that he didn't do, but might've done last year. I have no idea why he thought that behaving like his reputation and throwing a tantrum with the refs would've helped matters, but if your coaches disciplined him, he probably won't do it again for awhile. He's not incorrigible this year, he just has flashes of idiocy.

IMO, his longterm potential was worth the risks. Y'all just haven't seen him at his best. When he's on, he's extremely exciting to watch. I think you guys should at least see what he's like after he goes through your training camp, because most of our young Coyotes have been pretty rough this year, and I suspect it's our crappy system.

Sorry for the novel, but I always liked Carcillo in spite of the worst of his temper, and he's not a matured player yet. He's been developing since he started, and it's not really accurate to judge him based on any one period. You really have to look at the full picture to see what he's capable of being.

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04-06-2009, 03:16 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Carcillo also killed Richards' offensive game when they played together.
If you think Richards' game hinged on Carcillo that much, then we are grossly overpaying Mike Richards. Is that what you are saying?

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04-06-2009, 07:06 AM
  #148
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Carcillo is a 4 th liner. Homer and Stevens are regretting this move trust me. He has brought nothing to the Table and appears to be a legend in his own mind.( Steve Downie Syndrome). This guy is as helpful on a playoff run as Cote what was the point?

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04-06-2009, 07:18 AM
  #149
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Carcillo is a 4 th liner. Homer and Stevens are regretting this move trust me. He has brought nothing to the Table and appears to be a legend in his own mind.( Steve Downie Syndrome). This guy is as helpful on a playoff run as Cote what was the point?
Once you figure out why the deal was made...then, and only then, will you understand it.

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04-06-2009, 07:50 AM
  #150
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We had at least two other stiffs that would of been better Dump.. namely Alberts or Jones and leave sibisi with us.. stop with that we had to do this crap for cap nonsense.

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