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(Offseason) Philadelphia-Minnesota

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Old
04-06-2009, 11:31 AM
  #26
Sens Nation
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I would very easily give a 2nd for Lupul. Unfortunately, I don't think we can afford his contract, especially with the fact that Murray wants to resign Comrie. Secondary scoring like him is something we desperately need.

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04-06-2009, 11:41 AM
  #27
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I wonder if LA would take Lupul. They have have like 12.5 in cap space. For what though? Drewskie + ?

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04-06-2009, 11:43 AM
  #28
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I think they already used their salary-cap eating move by trading O'Sullivan for Williams.

I'd love to work out some deal to get Tuebert or Hickey....never would happen, but would love it.

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04-06-2009, 11:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
And it looks like the Wild will be missing the playoffs, after making them last year WITH Gaborik scoring 42 goals and 83 points for them, so I don't see how they didn't get worse. If you don't think that they could use some more offensive players then you are delusional. And a 2nd round pick for a player like Lupul is good value, especially when you have the cap space to do so.
Oh, I totally agree, I'm just saying it isn't going to GET worse... It IS worse. They've were in very rough shape offensively even with Gaborik; barring big changes in the offseason, I'm not sure how you can predict this team to finish higher than 11th.

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Old
04-06-2009, 12:40 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I think they already used their salary-cap eating move by trading O'Sullivan for Williams.

I'd love to work out some deal to get Tuebert or Hickey....never would happen, but would love it.
The only thing they need to watch out for next season is Kopitar's 6.8 cap hit.
Highest paid current player is Handzus (4), so Lupul coming in at 4 should be no big deal for them. They need a solid secondary scorer and obviously #1 line winger IMO. I think that will fill the void.

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04-07-2009, 08:52 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Lupul is not a first line winger on most teams. name me 15 teams that he would be a first line winger on. He is a streaky goal scorer who brings little else to the table when hes not scoring goals. He has a terrible contract as well starting next season.
Lupul (50pts) would be the highest scoring RW on the following teams:

PIT, NYI, TOR, WAS, FLA, ATL, CLB, DAL, LA

Also, he is very close in scoring to the following team leading RWers:

BOS (Recchi 54 pts)
CAR (Ruutu 52 pts)
VAN (Demitra 53 pts)

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Old
04-07-2009, 10:27 AM
  #32
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Not that Lupul is amazing or anything, but he could easily fetch the Flyers a 1st rounder from someone in need of a top six winger (and has more than one 1st round pick). I mean, if Umberger could get us a 1st, I don't see why Lupul can't.

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Old
04-07-2009, 12:29 PM
  #33
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
Not that Lupul is amazing or anything, but he could easily fetch the Flyers a 1st rounder from someone in need of a top six winger (and has more than one 1st round pick). I mean, if Umberger could get us a 1st, I don't see why Lupul can't.
Lupul's contract is why

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Old
04-07-2009, 01:01 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
Not that Lupul is amazing or anything, but he could easily fetch the Flyers a 1st rounder from someone in need of a top six winger (and has more than one 1st round pick). I mean, if Umberger could get us a 1st, I don't see why Lupul can't.
Everything else being equal, Centers > Wingers.

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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Lupul's contract is why
That as well. As well as Umberger having a pretty decent post-season.

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Old
04-07-2009, 02:59 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
Not that Lupul is amazing or anything, but he could easily fetch the Flyers a 1st rounder from someone in need of a top six winger (and has more than one 1st round pick). I mean, if Umberger could get us a 1st, I don't see why Lupul can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Lupul's contract is why
Abd exactly what do you think Umberger got IMMEDIATELY after being traded???? 3.75 mil. He fetched a 1st with CBJ knowing they were going to pay around 4 mil. Lupul is BETTER than Umberger. He's only slightly more expensive and a legit 2nd line wing right now with the potential to become a #1 wing (Gagne didn't start out as a #1 wing, neither did Knuble and Harnell is just now breaking into that role). 4.2 mil is not a huge over payment for a player like him. It's right about where it should be. He's NOT a cheal bargin but it is about right for both his production and the developement he's shown over the past 2 year.

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Old
04-07-2009, 03:09 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Lupul is BETTER than Umberger.
He's a better winger than Umberger; but Umberger is a better center.

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Old
04-07-2009, 03:20 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
He's a better winger than Umberger; but Umberger is a better center.
though umberger isn't really much of a center himself. i dunno if he's getting time at center in cbus, but in philly, RJ was shuffled to wing on various lines throughout the season.

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Old
04-07-2009, 03:23 PM
  #38
phlocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
He's a better winger than Umberger; but Umberger is a better center.

Evaluating Lupul as a wing vs Umberger as a center, Lupul is the better "player at his position".


Fine, if you want to go this route then a waived and unclaimed Lasse Kukkonen is a better defensemand than Umberger so by that logic Kukkonen would be more valuable right???

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Old
04-07-2009, 03:24 PM
  #39
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
though umberger isn't really much of a center himself. i dunno if he's getting time at center in cbus, but in philly, RJ was shuffled to wing on various lines throughout the season.
Flyers were pretty deep down the middle though. Most teams don't have that luxory.

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Old
04-07-2009, 03:25 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Okay, I'm bored and figured why not, makes some sense.

To Philadelphia: 2nd 10 (Minny doesn't have a 2nd in 09)

To Minnesota: Joffrey Lupul

Why Philadelphia does it: The Flyers don't have a 2nd this year, next year, or the year after that. The second round is a very important round when you might be able to snag that talented yet underachieving player who blossoms into a star player. They get cap relief for the future, and it opens up a roster spot for one of Nodl or JVR.

Why Minnesota does it: Let's face it, after Gaborik leaves, their offense is going to be anemic. They're already 4th to last in goals, and it's going to get worse when Gaborik leaves. I realize with the system they have they don't need to score much, but they do need to score. They currently have two legitimate top 6 forwards (Koivu, Bouchard) and a bunch of below average 2nd liners and 3rd liners. The pipeline doesn't look to have much in store either. They get a guy who has good speed and has shown that he can be a solid contributor on offense, being a 3 time 20 goal scorer. He might not fit into Minnesota's system perfectly, but he would help on offense.

I think a trade between these two can work, whether it's picks, roster players, or maybe even Harding.
So Gaboriik leaves, but worry not, Wild fans,Joffrey Lupul will make you forget all about him!

I don't think they'll go for it.

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Old
04-07-2009, 03:31 PM
  #41
BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Abd exactly what do you think Umberger got IMMEDIATELY after being traded???? 3.75 mil. He fetched a 1st with CBJ knowing they were going to pay around 4 mil. Lupul is BETTER than Umberger. He's only slightly more expensive and a legit 2nd line wing right now with the potential to become a #1 wing (Gagne didn't start out as a #1 wing, neither did Knuble and Harnell is just now breaking into that role). 4.2 mil is not a huge over payment for a player like him. It's right about where it should be. He's NOT a cheal bargin but it is about right for both his production and the developement he's shown over the past 2 year.
He didn't have the price tag with him already when we traded him for a 1st. It makes a difference, sometimes in a good way, and other times in a badddd way.

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04-07-2009, 03:33 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Flyers were pretty deep down the middle though. Most teams don't have that luxory.
that is true. another point for umberger is that its often easier for a center to shift to wing than for a winger to shift to center. still, lupul is younger and i'd argue that he has more native talent. he has also shown flashes of playing a pretty solid physical game (though it's been sorely lacking this year). i wouldn't be surprised to see lupul garner a middle 1st round pick from a team sorely needing offensive punch immediately.

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Old
04-07-2009, 03:42 PM
  #43
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Evaluating Lupul as a wing vs Umberger as a center, Lupul is the better "player at his position".
The main thrust of my argument is that centers are more valuable than wingers (eg., centers have an easier time shifting to wing than a winger shifting to center). Lupul is a "better player" but is he better than the inherent value of a center (Lupul isn't a 1st liner so that gap isn't that huge to begin with), lower salary, and 1st round pick in 2008 < 1st round pick in 2009 (look at how many 1st rounders were moved in 2008 compared to 2009 at the trading deadline - only one 1st rounder moved in 2009 at that was from a team that had two 1st round picks).

Again, don't discount that Umberger look pretty good in the post-season last year - that artificially bumped up his value (and likely the contract he eventually got).

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Fine, if you want to go this route then a waived and unclaimed Lasse Kukkonen is a better defensemand than Umberger so by that logic Kukkonen would be more valuable right???
Is Kukkonen a decent third pairing defenseman (I don't follow the Flyers THAT closely)? If not, what use is your example? Whatever your opinion of Umberger as a player - he's at least a legitimate (non-depth) roster player. I'm not comparing Jason Krog to Lupul.


Last edited by Barney Gumble: 04-07-2009 at 04:07 PM.
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Old
04-07-2009, 03:44 PM
  #44
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Lupul (50pts) would be the highest scoring RW on the following teams:

PIT, NYI, TOR, WAS, FLA, ATL, CLB, DAL, LA

Also, he is very close in scoring to the following team leading RWers:

BOS (Recchi 54 pts)
CAR (Ruutu 52 pts)
VAN (Demitra 53 pts)
Semin counts as a Right Winger

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Old
04-08-2009, 04:09 AM
  #45
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I would do this if Gaborik fails to re-sign. The wild do need some offense and the team is not as bad as everyone seems to think. The young core is developing very nicely and the team has shown that they can compete for a playoff spot without Gabby. Toss in a decent scoring winger and this team should see a nice jump.

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04-08-2009, 04:12 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ovechkid08 View Post
I would do this if Gaborik fails to re-sign. The wild do need some offense and the team is not as bad as everyone seems to think. The young core is developing very nicely and the team has shown that they can compete for a playoff spot without Gabby. Toss in a decent scoring winger and this team should see a nice jump.
Would you do Lupul and San Jose's 3rd for Harding on Draft Day?

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Old
04-08-2009, 05:26 AM
  #47
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VAN (Demitra 53 pts)
2nd liner

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Old
04-08-2009, 08:27 AM
  #48
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1st round picks have been much harder to come by in the past year. With the salary cap implications coming, there may be some decent players available for next to nothing, so I find it hard to belive you will get a 1st for Lupol. I know the arguement about all the players who have received 1st round picks, but that seems to be in the past.

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Old
04-08-2009, 11:18 AM
  #49
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Yea I don't think Lupul will get more than Antropov. Antropov was an impending UFA, Lupul has an inflated contract (though not as bad as people on here make it seem), but is signed for a while.

Minnesota, I'm sure, has troubles signing FA's when they hit the market, so this is a good chance for them to get a young scoring winger signed through his prime, who still has room to improve his game.

Whether it is Harding, whose value is around a 2nd round pick (Huet, Biron), or just a 2nd round pick, I think its a good deal for both sides.

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Old
04-08-2009, 11:29 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
So Gaboriik leaves, but worry not, Wild fans,Joffrey Lupul will make you forget all about him!

I don't think they'll go for it.
He certainly won't replace Gaborik, Gaborik is a phenomenal talent who is injury prone. But Lupul certainly be a decent replacement if they aren't able to sign another UFA. And if he plays with a guy like Koivu where he is the shooter on that line, I think he can play well.

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