HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Edm Minny

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-06-2009, 02:52 PM
  #26
tony135420
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko View Post
With all due respect to how good Tom Gilbert is...

What on earth do the Wild need him for?

He brings speed, size, offensive ability, a decent shot and is not (always) a liability in his own zone.

tony135420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 04:10 PM
  #27
GopherState
Repeat Offender...
 
GopherState's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: X Marks The Spot
Posts: 22,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony135420 View Post
He brings speed, size, offensive ability, a decent shot and is not (always) a liability in his own zone.
And Minnesota already has three of those guys. If they end up trading Harding at the draft, it won't be for another blue-liner.

GopherState is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 04:53 PM
  #28
CrossCheck
Registered User
 
CrossCheck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Hockey home, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,132
vCash: 500


You must be drinking waaaaayyyyyy too much oil man!!!!!

Harding for Gilbert and a fifth is a deal...

Gilbert is dime a dozen in this league while Cluts is already in the NHL record book and much younger! Harding is a starter in waiting.

CrossCheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 05:02 PM
  #29
1025*
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 567
vCash: 500
Teams like Colorado, Toronto, Philly would be willing to put up better deals for Harding,

heck, Detroit, Calgary, Dallas, New Jersey would all be willing to match that caliber of proposal to get Harding and groom him as their future #1.

1025* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 05:15 PM
  #30
Giggli G
Registered User
 
Giggli G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossCheck View Post


You must be drinking waaaaayyyyyy too much oil man!!!!!

Harding for Gilbert and a fifth is a deal...

Gilbert is dime a dozen in this league while Cluts is already in the NHL record book and much younger! Harding is a starter in waiting.
So many people on HF don't know what they are talking about with Gilbert. This is only one of many examples.

Gilbert is top pairing on 10 teams in the nhl in his sophomore year. On almost every team in the NHL he is at least a #3 defenseman. He has 43 points in 79 games and is 18th in the NHL for d-man points. And he doesn't even play on the first unit powerplay. He is a young and capable 2-way player.

Dime a dozen my ass.

Giggli G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 05:19 PM
  #31
Highbrow
Alfie, Alfie, Alfie!
 
Highbrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossCheck View Post


You must be drinking waaaaayyyyyy too much oil man!!!!!

Harding for Gilbert and a fifth is a deal...

Gilbert is dime a dozen in this league while Cluts is already in the NHL record book and much younger! Harding is a starter in waiting.
Can't say I agree here. I like what Gilbert brings to the table game in and game out. While I agree the trade is massively weighted in Edmonton's direction, I don't think Gilbert is by any means a dime a dozen in the league.

Harding for Gilbert (VALUE WISE) isn't a bad foundation but Clutterbuck is fairly underrated. If Clutterbuck has only fourth line potential (like some earlier posters suggested), Minnesota should and will keep Clutterbuck and be more than satisfied with how he turns out.

Highbrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 07:00 PM
  #32
Red Alberks
Registered User
 
Red Alberks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eden Prairie, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 613
vCash: 500
This is one of the worst proposals I have ever seen. Minny gets hosed in this deal.

Red Alberks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:00 PM
  #33
thadd
Oil4Life
 
thadd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: China
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,898
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to thadd
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerfan17 View Post
Done, especially if the Oilers can sign one of Bouwmeester, Boynton, Komisarek, Oduya, or Ohlund this summer.
Dude. Edmonton is without a doubt getting rid of Gilbert or Grebs in the off season and they won't be acquiring an expensive defenseman.

We'll have the following D next season:
Souray at 5.4
Lubo at 5.6
Grebs at 3-3.5 or Gilbert at 4
Smid at 1.1-1.3
Stiaos at 2.7
Strudwick, Peckham, Petry or Chorney

We need to keep space for:

1: 1st line LW
2: Resigning Cogliano(I say trade him if he can't learn to play the wing) after next season
3: Resigning Gagner after next season
4. Resigning Brodziak (Give him 3rd line center. Isn't he our best faceoff man and biggest center?)
5. Signing a goalie for next year
6. Resigning Kotalik or singing a 2nd line RW

We've already deleted 2.5 mill of cap space by switching Cole's contract with O'Sullivans.

We don't have a heck of a lot of space when you consider the fact that Horcoff is getting a 2M raise and that the cap is staying put.

thadd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:10 PM
  #34
CrossCheck
Registered User
 
CrossCheck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Hockey home, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
So many people on HF don't know what they are talking about with Gilbert. This is only one of many examples.

Gilbert is top pairing on 10 teams in the nhl in his sophomore year. On almost every team in the NHL he is at least a #3 defenseman. He has 43 points in 79 games and is 18th in the NHL for d-man points. And he doesn't even play on the first unit powerplay. He is a young and capable 2-way player.

Dime a dozen my ass.
He's 26... That's young??? How long are young anyways in this league?

If by "capable" you mean awful in his own zone and always think offense, then yes, he's a "capable" 2-way d-man!!!


CrossCheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:15 PM
  #35
Bullrun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 677
vCash: 500
this trade is beyond awful

Adding a 2nd that minnesota doesn't have shows that you havent thought about both sides of this trade...not to mention how badly minny needs another defensman ....

Plus clutterbuck is a rookie and its not really sure what his upside is...I think he could hit 18-20 goals with the wicked shot he has but thats on a wild team where he'd play a lot more minutes than elsewhere....

Bullrun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:39 PM
  #36
oilerfan17
Registered User
 
oilerfan17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Dude. Edmonton is without a doubt getting rid of Gilbert or Grebs in the off season and they won't be acquiring an expensive defenseman.

We'll have the following D next season:
Souray at 5.4
Lubo at 5.6
Grebs at 3-3.5 or Gilbert at 4
Smid at 1.1-1.3
Stiaos at 2.7
Strudwick, Peckham, Petry or Chorney

We need to keep space for:

1: 1st line LW
2: Resigning Cogliano(I say trade him if he can't learn to play the wing) after next season
3: Resigning Gagner after next season
4. Resigning Brodziak (Give him 3rd line center. Isn't he our best faceoff man and biggest center?)
5. Signing a goalie for next year
6. Resigning Kotalik or singing a 2nd line RW

We've already deleted 2.5 mill of cap space by switching Cole's contract with O'Sullivans.

We don't have a heck of a lot of space when you consider the fact that Horcoff is getting a 2M raise and that the cap is staying put.
You're failing to consider that Edmonton could move more expensive players for cap space. Staios, Moreau, and Penner could all be moved this off season for picks or prospects (and probably contracts to bury in the minors as well), which would free up approximately $9 million in cap space. This proposed trade would free up about $2 million itself after Harding signed and would solve the goaltender issue. That's about $11 million total. I'm not saying this is the smart plan of action, but one could possibly even sign both a top-line LW and a top-4 defenseman with that kind of space.

There are ways around a cap number. And I think losing Gilbert would hurt the team more than you would think, enough that replacing his minutes and skill would be a pretty high priority.

oilerfan17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:57 PM
  #37
The Dayvan Cowboy
Registered Genius
 
The Dayvan Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
I would rework this as something like Cogliano, Nilsson for Harding, Clutterbuck.
Oh god no.

The Dayvan Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 09:39 PM
  #38
brevard*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers24 View Post
To Oilers
Josh Harding
Cal Clutterbuck
2nd

To Minny
Tom Gilbert
5th rd pick

Reason being Oilers need a goalie as Roli is a UFA, Minny Just signed Backstrom to a long term deal so they cant leave harding rot on the bench. Oilers could use soem grit in Clutterbuck on their 4th line. the 2nd just swings the deal as Harding is unproven. Reason for Minny, they get a home town boy signed to a long term deal who has good offensive numbers and potential.

Let me guess, You're an Oiler fan right?
Remove the 2nd from Minn. to Edm. and change the 5th going from Edm. to Minn. to a 2nd and you have a decent deal.

brevard* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 09:49 PM
  #39
oilers24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Here is the deal from my perspective. Harding while having potential has proven very little, He has played on a defensive team and has had limited action. Clutterbuck again has potantial, gritty guy i like his game, i seriously doubt he will be anything more then a 40 point guy ever. Gilbert is signed to a reasonable contract with 5 years remaining at 4 million dollars. He is on pace for a close to a 50 pt season. D man with offensive instincts and the ability to move the puck are difficult to acquire and find. The goal tending market has many options in it this year, With many younger "kids" out there such as Tukka Rask. Teams would be utilizing their prospects poorly if they kept guys like Harding and Rask on the bench when they signed their go to guys to long term deals. thus dealing from this position is a position of weakness.

oilers24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 09:58 PM
  #40
Jimmy McNulty
Registered User
 
Jimmy McNulty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 1,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony135420 View Post
He brings speed, size, offensive ability, a decent shot and is not (always) a liability in his own zone.
I'm not doubting that Tom Gilbert is a good, perhaps even very good defenseman.

Unfortunately, the Wild are already giving:
$4.85 million to Kim Johnsson
$3.5 million to Brent Burns
$3.5 million to Nick Schultz
$3.35 million to Marek Zidlicky

Adding Tom Gilbert's $4 million - to a team that already has a sufficient defensive core; a team that is 28th or whatever in the league in goals for - doesn't help.

Jimmy McNulty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 10:16 PM
  #41
oilerfan17
Registered User
 
oilerfan17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko View Post
I'm not doubting that Tom Gilbert is a good, perhaps even very good defenseman.

Unfortunately, the Wild are already giving:
$4.85 million to Kim Johnsson
$3.5 million to Brent Burns
$3.5 million to Nick Schultz
$3.35 million to Marek Zidlicky

Adding Tom Gilbert's $4 million - to a team that already has a sufficient defensive core; a team that is 28th or whatever in the league in goals for - doesn't help.
Acquiring Gilbert would be a way to help that. The guy is going to score about 45 points this year with minimal PP time, moves the puck well, and is young. A skilled forward set is hard to utilize without a puck moving defensive corps, and Gilbert would certainly help that.

oilerfan17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 10:22 PM
  #42
oilersrule14
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,431
vCash: 500
1. The Wild need forwards - not Gilbert
2. Goalies have very little value - proven time and time again
3. You don't trade a proven offensive defenceman for unproven players or players with limited potential.

oilersrule14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 12:37 AM
  #43
Dazed and Confused
Registered User
 
Dazed and Confused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossCheck View Post
He's 26... That's young??? How long are young anyways in this league?

If by "capable" you mean awful in his own zone and always think offense, then yes, he's a "capable" 2-way d-man!!!

Funny, judging from this comment I'm going to guess that you don't see Gilbert play that often, do you?

Him being awful in his own end has caused him to have the 2nd highest +/- on the team (& BTW he does not get sheltered minutes), and if I had to choose a way to describe Gilberts style, it wouldn't be offense first & only. He puts up points the same way a Pronger or Lidstrom does (not comparing him to them per say, but their styles), rarely in the center of a play, but rather moving the puck to a player thatís in good position to try start something. I've rarely seen him "force the issue" and try and create offense out of nothing.

Dazed and Confused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 01:28 PM
  #44
missinthejets
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossCheck View Post
He's 26... That's young??? How long are young anyways in this league?

If by "capable" you mean awful in his own zone and always think offense, then yes, he's a "capable" 2-way d-man!!!

no not at all is Gilbert awful in his own zone. I said it earlier, he's not a shutdown d-man, but he is not a liability either, he is solid in his own end, yes he's been caught now and then and made to look silly but you know what, i can go to youtube and find some examples of a Pronger being made to look silly as well... And as far as him always thinking offence, that's incorrect as well, he's a puck mover in the truest sense of the word, he's not one of those guys who tries to be a one man show and do it all in the offensive zone, he's a good passer and a smart player about when to look for the offence. That's his biggest strength is that he seems very smart about how to play the position and knowing when to take a chance and when not to.

missinthejets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 06:28 PM
  #45
Giggli G
Registered User
 
Giggli G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossCheck View Post
He's 26... That's young??? How long are young anyways in this league?

If by "capable" you mean awful in his own zone and always think offense, then yes, he's a "capable" 2-way d-man!!!

Um, you have no idea how to evaluate a player. That is really all there is to say, there is no point debating with you.

BTW, most defensemen don't peak until 30 or 31.

Giggli G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 08:56 PM
  #46
alphahelix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,300
vCash: 500
If the deal is Gilbert for Clutterbuck and Harding, Minnesota loves it and wins. They bring Gilbert back home to roost and they significantly improve their D Corps. When you have MAB playing significant minutes you would benefit from a re-think. If MAB can turn it around under Lemaire, just imagine Gilbert with Lemaire in his hometown?

Gilbert is easily among the top ES point producers on D in the NHL and it is his 2nd year in the league. He is also good all-around, smart stick, great hockey sense and poise. Is that really a dime a dozen? Maybe if there is only ONE dime to go around, because there are less than a dozen players who can lay claim to the same strengths.

Gilbert has had VERY limited PP time and it is very reasonable to assume that his point totals would be much higher if he received frequent PP1 ice time. Hits Pts and G per 60 minutes of PP played in his career is quite high.

Given that the majority of his production this year came at ES (which is exceptionally rare for a D-man scoring over 40 pts), lets see who has outperformed him.

(LIST INCLUDES ONLY DEFENCEMEN WHO HAVE PLAYED AT LEAST HALF THE GAMES THIS SEASON; to eliminate skewed numbers due to small sample size.)

Mike Green 1.54 Pts/60 Es Min
Brian Rafalski 1.39 Pts/60 Es Min
Dustin Byfuglien 1.33 Pts/60 Es Min
Shea Weber 1.30 Pts/60 ES Min
Rob Blake 1.27 Pts/60 ES Min
Tom Gilbert 1.26 Points per 60 ES Minutes

(numbers as per behindthenet.ca , special note: I did not include Matt Hunwick despite his having played slightly over half of the games... hes a great young player but being his first 49 game segment ever in the NHL I opted him out this time around.)

So Tom Gilbert is the sixth most effective OFD at ES in the NHL. As I said earlier, his PP numbers are strong as well but he just doesn't get enough ice time at the moment.

Do you see any Minnesota defenders on that list? That is why they should be interested in Gilbert.

Harding is promising but still hasn't proven much other than being a strong back-up. Clutterbuck brings quality elements to the ice but his limited offensive production is likely to keep him from ever being a top 6 option.

Edmonton clearly gives up the most valuable element with the most value, signed long term. If Edmonton fans weren't so finnicky he would probably be on a list of untouchables.

Edmonton gets hosed in this deal.

alphahelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 10:50 PM
  #47
blackcoffee
 
blackcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,483
vCash: 500
anybody in here who thinks that this deal is bad for minny should smack their head into a wall. it's not like you have anything to lose...

blackcoffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 12:55 AM
  #48
Red Alberks
Registered User
 
Red Alberks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eden Prairie, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
If the deal is Gilbert for Clutterbuck and Harding, Minnesota loves it and wins. They bring Gilbert back home to roost and they significantly improve their D Corps. When you have MAB playing significant minutes you would benefit from a re-think. If MAB can turn it around under Lemaire, just imagine Gilbert with Lemaire in his hometown?

Gilbert is easily among the top ES point producers on D in the NHL and it is his 2nd year in the league. He is also good all-around, smart stick, great hockey sense and poise. Is that really a dime a dozen? Maybe if there is only ONE dime to go around, because there are less than a dozen players who can lay claim to the same strengths.

Gilbert has had VERY limited PP time and it is very reasonable to assume that his point totals would be much higher if he received frequent PP1 ice time. Hits Pts and G per 60 minutes of PP played in his career is quite high.

Given that the majority of his production this year came at ES (which is exceptionally rare for a D-man scoring over 40 pts), lets see who has outperformed him.

(LIST INCLUDES ONLY DEFENCEMEN WHO HAVE PLAYED AT LEAST HALF THE GAMES THIS SEASON; to eliminate skewed numbers due to small sample size.)

Mike Green 1.54 Pts/60 Es Min
Brian Rafalski 1.39 Pts/60 Es Min
Dustin Byfuglien 1.33 Pts/60 Es Min
Shea Weber 1.30 Pts/60 ES Min
Rob Blake 1.27 Pts/60 ES Min
Tom Gilbert 1.26 Points per 60 ES Minutes

(numbers as per behindthenet.ca , special note: I did not include Matt Hunwick despite his having played slightly over half of the games... hes a great young player but being his first 49 game segment ever in the NHL I opted him out this time around.)

So Tom Gilbert is the sixth most effective OFD at ES in the NHL. As I said earlier, his PP numbers are strong as well but he just doesn't get enough ice time at the moment.

Do you see any Minnesota defenders on that list? That is why they should be interested in Gilbert.

Harding is promising but still hasn't proven much other than being a strong back-up. Clutterbuck brings quality elements to the ice but his limited offensive production is likely to keep him from ever being a top 6 option.

Edmonton clearly gives up the most valuable element with the most value, signed long term. If Edmonton fans weren't so finnicky he would probably be on a list of untouchables.

Edmonton gets hosed in this deal.


Umm no. Minny gets hosed completely in this deal. We have no need for Gilbert, and Clutterbuck's value to the Wild is very very high, higher than what Gilbert has to offer us.

Red Alberks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 02:09 AM
  #49
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Alberks View Post


Umm no. Minny gets hosed completely in this deal. We have no need for Gilbert, and Clutterbuck's value to the Wild is very very high, higher than what Gilbert has to offer us.
You know, even the blind know how to read.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 03:02 AM
  #50
Ovechkid08
Registered User
 
Ovechkid08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eden Prairie, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You know, even the blind know how to read.
The wild need forwards not defensemen. The D is set already with a young core. They may not put up a ton of points but their game is tailored to the Wild's playing style. Gilbert is just not a good fit right now. Also the people saying that the wild want Gilbert because he's a hometown boy need to look at the wild's record with MN born players. Management avoids them like the plague. Oh and Clutterbuck is a fan favorite that will likely remain a key part on the Wild for a long time. His energy and checks have a very large role in helping the drive of the team. He is the definition of a Wild player and likely has a higher value to them than any other team would offer.

Ovechkid08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.