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Kessel to Ottawa

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Old
04-07-2009, 10:49 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Leafs would offer Tomas Kaberle and Lee Stempniak for Kessel and Stuart
Go shine your golf clubs up

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04-07-2009, 11:27 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
The only teams I could see going after K or K are Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.
I could see Vancouver going after one of them for sure, I would assume Kessel. Maybe Montreal if they are gonna bid farewell to one of or some combo of Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay. Toronto more than likely will be happy to keep their picks unless they can get one via trade or without losing a 1st which is not going to happen.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Chicago, Colorado or St. Louis throw their hats in the ring too.

As a sidenote:
Just because the Bruins are willing to clear cap space to match these offer sheets, don't think that other teams aren't willing to clear cap space to throw out a bigger offer sheet.

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04-07-2009, 11:59 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 17of26 View Post
I don't understand why people say this - does he have naked pictures of other GM's wives or something?
Jeremy Jacobs and (the late) Bill Wirtz are two of the most hated owners in all of hockey (by fans). They are also two of most respected among their peers. These two owners were the drivers behind the lockouts of 1993 and 2004. They were the ones that lead the charge for a cap even though they own clubs in two of the largest markets.

IMO, Owners will think twice before crossing someone like Jacobs.

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04-07-2009, 12:01 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman03 View Post
I could see Vancouver going after one of them for sure, I would assume Kessel. Maybe Montreal if they are gonna bid farewell to one of or some combo of Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay. Toronto more than likely will be happy to keep their picks unless they can get one via trade or without losing a 1st which is not going to happen.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Chicago, Colorado or St. Louis throw their hats in the ring too.

As a sidenote:
Just because the Bruins are willing to clear cap space to match these offer sheets, don't think that other teams aren't willing to clear cap space to throw out a bigger offer sheet.
Chicago doesn't have the room and they have two very talented forwards and two equally talented defensemen due for raises in the new future. It would be very short-sighted of them to sign one of Boston's RFAs.
St. Louis is in the same boat. They have a ton of young talent that I'm sure they want to hold on to over the next 2 to 4 years. Overpaying for one of Boston's RFAs would be very short sighted and could lead to them losing their own young players.

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04-07-2009, 12:03 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
can't they just move sturm? I know he has an NTC but i'm sure he would be amenable to moving some place if the team approached him with the right deal. 3.5 mill cleared, plenty of space for kessel/krejci raises.
Sturm has a Limited NTC. There are certain teams that he can be traded to without him having to waive.

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04-07-2009, 12:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Oh believe me, Bruins fans haven't been allowed to forget both Krejci and Kessel are RFA's... we're reminded at least once a day.

Also believe me, the math has been done countless times and if two offersheets are sent out for both Kessel and Krejci, and those sheets are below the 6.5 mill mark, Boston can match. It may mean they need to move out guys like Sturm, Kobasew and/or Ward, but that is hardly anything to panic about (and those types of players do have value).

Boston's cap situation isn't as dire as many would like to think, and the bonuses in place for both Rask and Wheeler are not easily attainable. If they pushed them out a year there's a good chance they wouldn't have to worry about them.

Also, there's the small issue of the offersheet itself. First, both Kessel and Krejci would need to sign it.

Second, a GM would need to be willing to part with both the high salary and great assets (minimum two 1sts and multiple other picks) it would take to sign them.

There's a reason they aren't a popular route, and that you rarely see an offersheet that high. 1st round picks are severely overrated on HFboards, but they aren't worthless, especially in an era of such financial uncertainty.

It'll be something to see, but as history tends to repeat itself, I think the idea of acquiring another teams top end RFA's is more a wet dream of other fanbases then any realistic option an NHL GM not named Kevin Lowe considers.

I'm guessing like every other year, this is much ado about nothing. Chia likely locks both guys up before the open market hits.
Something that everyone seems to be forgetting.

Both players are probably willing to take less money to stay with a winning team that drafted them.

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Old
04-07-2009, 12:20 PM
  #82
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i wouldnt mind getting Kessel

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04-07-2009, 12:40 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobg1 View Post
How does that give them 4 first rounders? First of all the Bruins can't afford $6M for Kessell.
Boston doesn't have to match the 6 million to Kessel they can simply decide not to match the offer that another team made for Kessel than collect that teams picks.

That's why their called Restricted free agents, if another team signs them than they have to give up something in return based on the salary they offered to him.

Here's the RFA compensation.

$863,156 or less - None
$863,156 - $1,307,811 -3rd
$1,307,811 - $2,615,623 - 2nd
$2,615,623 - $3,923,434 - 1st, 3rd
$3,923,434 - $5,231,246 - 1st, 2nd, 3rd
$5,231,246 - $6,539,061 - 2 1st round draft picks, 2nd, 3rd
$6,539,061 or more - 4 1st round draft picks

So if a team were to offer Kessel or any other RFA 6 million than that team would lose 2 first round picks plus a second rounder and a third rounder.

Over 6.54 than that's 4 first round picks

It's a big price to pay not only cap hit wise but draft picks also.

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Old
04-07-2009, 12:48 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
THAT, more then anything else will scare teams off. IMO, there is only one team owner you don't piss off.


The only teams I could see going after K or K are Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.
Scratch all three.

Montreal doesn't have its 3rd rounder in 2010
Vancouver doesn't have its 2nd
and Toronto doesn't have its 2nd

So unless the Bruins don't match a $4 million offer, or one of them offers $6.5 million and four first rounders, neither of them will be playing in Van, Mtl or Tor

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Old
04-07-2009, 01:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Chicago doesn't have the room and they have two very talented forwards and two equally talented defensemen due for raises in the new future. It would be very short-sighted of them to sign one of Boston's RFAs.
St. Louis is in the same boat. They have a ton of young talent that I'm sure they want to hold on to over the next 2 to 4 years. Overpaying for one of Boston's RFAs would be very short sighted and could lead to them losing their own young players.
Well if you think about it these two teams are pretty much done their rebuild. Both are possibly letting high priced players walk or retire either this year or next (Havlat, Khabibulin, Kariya, Tkachuk) or else these guys are taking big paycuts. If this is the case I could see them gunning for them.

St. Louis is a much more likely destination as they do not have the big name, big money young players Keith, Kane and Toews in need of big raises in coming years. Oshie, Berglund and Johnson will require raises, but not as big as the Chicago three IMO.

Shortsighted or not if these teams can pry one of these two away for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd I would not be surprised to see them pull the trigger.

I honestly don't think their will be many if any at all offers, but I see it as more likely these teams go for one of them as opposed to Toronto or Montreal.

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04-07-2009, 01:05 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieRuzica View Post
Scratch all three.

Montreal doesn't have its 3rd rounder in 2010
Vancouver doesn't have its 2nd
and Toronto doesn't have its 2nd

So unless the Bruins don't match a $4 million offer, or one of them offers $6.5 million and four first rounders, neither of them will be playing in Van, Mtl or Tor
bUT.... bUt.... BUT..... but.....
Jeff Carter, I mean Phil Kessel will sign an offer sheet, so your better just trading him now for my #5 defenseman, #3 center and 2nd round pick.

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04-07-2009, 01:15 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman03 View Post

Shortsighted or not if these teams can pry one of these two away for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd I would not be surprised to see them pull the trigger.
If a 1st, 2nd and 3rd is what they'd be willing to give up I don't see how Boston would not match that offer if it's made when you consider that RFA compensation would be for a yearly salary of 3.92 million-5.23 million.

If your trying to make sure Boston doesn't match you'd have to offer somewhere in the neighbourhood of 5.5 million per year and up but that would lead to a higher compensation. i.e. 2 1st rounders plus a 2nd and a 3rd or 4 1st round picks.

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04-07-2009, 01:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TJF View Post
If a 1st, 2nd and 3rd is what they'd be willing to give up I don't see how Boston would not match that offer if it's made when you consider that RFA compensation would be for a yearly salary of 3.92 million-5.23 million.

If your trying to make sure Boston doesn't match you'd have to offer somewhere in the neighbourhood of 5.5 million per year and up but that would lead to a higher compensation. i.e. 2 1st rounders plus a 2nd and a 3rd or 4 1st round picks.
heck, if i'm the leafs or habs, i'm perfectly happy offering 5.2's to both of them and watching boston match. It changes nothing for them and makes boston unload SOMEONE, making them (hopefully) a worse team.

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04-07-2009, 01:44 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
heck, if i'm the leafs or habs, i'm perfectly happy offering 5.2's to both of them and watching boston match. It changes nothing for them and makes boston unload SOMEONE, making them (hopefully) a worse team.
You have to have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and the player has to be willing to sign the contract. 2 things people completely overlook.

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04-07-2009, 01:47 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
heck, if i'm the leafs or habs, i'm perfectly happy offering 5.2's to both of them and watching boston match. It changes nothing for them and makes boston unload SOMEONE, making them (hopefully) a worse team.
Did you read any of the thread? The Leafs and Habs CANNOT sign them to an offer sheet at that level because they don't hold the compensatory picks.

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04-07-2009, 02:56 PM
  #91
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Here is a list of teams that can sign a top RFA this year:
Chicago (cap)
Colorado
Columbus
Dallas
Detroit (cap)
Edmonton
Florida
Nashville
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers (cap)
Phoenix
Pittsburgh (cap)
St Louis
Vancouver
Washington (cap)
These are the teams that have the picks to sign a top RFA, if they have (cap) by them they almost for sure can't afford to sign a one. So there are like 10 teams that could even sign a Kessel type RFA.

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04-07-2009, 03:57 PM
  #92
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I would want Foligno in any deal involving Kessel. I'd rather see the Bruins keep Kessel, but just for the sake of this thread...

Foligno/Ottawa's 1st in 09
for
Kessel

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Old
04-07-2009, 04:38 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Happyhary9 View Post
Here is a list of teams that can sign a top RFA this year:
Chicago (cap)
Colorado
Columbus
Dallas
Detroit (cap)
Edmonton
Florida
Nashville
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers (cap)
Phoenix
Pittsburgh (cap)
St Louis
Vancouver
Washington (cap)
These are the teams that have the picks to sign a top RFA, if they have (cap) by them they almost for sure can't afford to sign a one. So there are like 10 teams that could even sign a Kessel type RFA.

Vancouver does't have its 2nd in 2010, so scratch them.
Pheonix is near bankrupt, ditto for Nashville and Florida is losing all kinds of money and I'd be shocked if Columbus had that kind of cash
If the Islanders did, that would be awesome because the Bruins would be getting a top-3 pick.

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04-07-2009, 05:04 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by RosieRuzica View Post
Did you read any of the thread? The Leafs and Habs CANNOT sign them to an offer sheet at that level because they don't hold the compensatory picks.
When Burke took over, he specifically said that they couldn't tender offer sheets because of that. I don't think he's a likely candidate to start throwing offer sheets around anyways, for obvious reasons.

Montreal might think about it. The picks are in 2010, and I think they have all their picks from that draft, minus maybe the 3rd.

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04-07-2009, 05:11 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I would want Foligno in any deal involving Kessel. I'd rather see the Bruins keep Kessel, but just for the sake of this thread...

Foligno/Ottawa's 1st in 09
for
Kessel
The idea is right but the value seems a bit off. Foligno has had a tremendous 2nd half under the new coach, and his current scoring pace under Clouston puts him in the same ballpark has Kessel as far as numbers go. Granted, there is a difference between point pace and actually hitting that benchmark, but I would not be opposed to waiting and seeing how far Foligno can go next year if a Top 10 first round pick is on the line.

Personally, I think Ottawa makes a very poor trading partner for Boston.

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04-07-2009, 06:33 PM
  #96
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Then you would be adding to the package for Staal.

On a sidenote, Dubinsky has played quite a bit of wing this season because Renney and Torts both wanted to get him into the top-6 and with Drury and Gomez the only spot for him was wing. He is a prototypical power forward, I think his future is at wing on this team.
Maybe Boston would have to add, maybe not. That's a different debate. What isn't debatable is that your offer neither was fair in value nor addressed Boston's needs.

Potter? What, we want to deal Kessel so that Providence can add a dman? He's a 25 year old minor leaguer. He has zero value. You say Boston would have to add to Kessel to get Staal? Fine, how about Kessel and Jeff Penner. Fair? And Penner has more value than Potter.

Dubinsky may be able to play wing, but which one of these guys is he going to replace:

Sturm, Ryder, Wheeler, Lucic, Kobasew?

All 5 of those guys score more than Dubinsky. He'd be a 3rd liner at best for us.

You aren't getting a 21 year old 30 goal scorer for a 3rd liner, a mid #1 and a career ahler.

If you don't want to pay a heavy price, fine but at least make a decent offer.

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04-07-2009, 07:07 PM
  #97
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Well if you think about it these two teams are pretty much done their rebuild. Both are possibly letting high priced players walk or retire either this year or next (Havlat, Khabibulin, Kariya, Tkachuk) or else these guys are taking big paycuts. If this is the case I could see them gunning for them.

St. Louis is a much more likely destination as they do not have the big name, big money young players Keith, Kane and Toews in need of big raises in coming years. Oshie, Berglund and Johnson will require raises, but not as big as the Chicago three IMO.

Shortsighted or not if these teams can pry one of these two away for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd I would not be surprised to see them pull the trigger.

I honestly don't think their will be many if any at all offers, but I see it as more likely these teams go for one of them as opposed to Toronto or Montreal.

You can go ahead and take St. Louis off the list. Their market will not allow them to spend to the cap, regardless of space available. Plus next year we will have to resign Johnson and Perron, then the following year - Oshie and Berglund.... Plus the other role players. The nice thing is we only have two bad contracts on the books where we overpaid to get a UFA - Kariya and McKee - both of which come off the books next year.

I don't think you will see a lot of teams going after RFAs. There are multiple reasons:

1. Each team has a pecking order - The top player should be getting the most $$$$. Anytime you overpay a player - like Chicago has done for Campbell - the guys whose contracts expire will be expecting to make more (ie when Keith's contract expires he will likely want 6 million also.) As a Blues fan it happened in St. Louis with Brewer - he got an extra .5 million per season because of McKees $$ contract. (Had McKee not been on the books at 4, he would have likely signed for less).

So basically it inflates the cost to resign your own players. (Fans can say what they want but the Agents will point to the other contracts on the team for comparison).

2. The RFA will not likely live up to the contract. Without massive overpayment (Penner) - you will likely be matched. The players who are not matched are likely ending up with a Penner like contract. Cost edmonton $$$ and picks. Their fans will tell you how that worked out. (It also likely cost Lowe his job as GM).

3. CAP is going down. It will be important not to overpay for any contract regardless of UFA or RFA status as it could cost you in the future.

4. Retaliation. See the Blues and the Nucks last summer. (It actually worked out very well for the Blues - but the Nucks are not likely happy paying Bernier 2.5 million for this season - it is a one year deal, which if he excelled would have cost them a more to resign this summer, and since he didn't in order to qualify him they have to offer 2.5 million to keep him on the roster.)

5. The advantage for making a trade vs. signing an RFA is that with a trade - most of the time both teams move salary. You are not just adding 5 million to your cap, in some cases you are able to offset that by trading a player or players that earn 2-3 million (example numbers but you get the idea). So you are not just adding pure salary.

Basically it comes down to this: It doesn't matter if you sign a UFA or RFA to a bad contract - it will hurt the team both salary structure wise and cap wise - the ramifications are not just one year, but multiple years. But with RFA's you also cost yourself a bit of the future in picks - that can offer great play at cheap cost on their entry level contracts - you need this to put together a solid team.


Last edited by Frenzy1: 04-07-2009 at 07:32 PM.
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04-08-2009, 09:41 PM
  #98
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Kessel doesn't go anywhere,he will stay in Boston!

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04-08-2009, 10:01 PM
  #99
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if the Bruins really need it they can trade players in order to keep Kessel and Krejci. Kobasew, ward and Sturm can be traded for a bag of pucks for all i care as long as their salaries aren't with the bruins. That alone gets the Bruins 7 million in cap space. Then if need be Ryder can be dealt for a 4th or 5th. Thats 11 million in cap space. People forget of the depth that Boston has these players can be replaced by the likes of Hamill, sobotka, marchand and Boychuk.

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04-09-2009, 10:53 PM
  #100
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2009/2010 Bruins

Lucic (.850) - Savard (5) - Kessel (RFA)
Sturm (3.5) - Bergeron (4.75) - Kobasew (2.33)
Wheeler (.850) - Krejci (RFA) - Ryder (4)
Thornton (.550) - XXXXXX - XXXXXX

Chara (7.5) - Ward (2.5)
Ference (1.4) - Wideman (3.93)
Hunwick (RFA) - Stuart (1.3)

Thomas (5)
Rask (.850)

Cap Number = ~45.6 with Kessel, Krejci, Hunwick, and two 4th liners to sign.

Give Kessel and Krejci 5 each, and Hunwick 1, that brings you to 56.6M. Trade Aaron Ward or Chuck Kobasew, re-sign Shane Hnidy at 1M per year, and sign a couple of 4th liners with the extra 1.5M.

I must be missing something with Boston's huge "cap troubles" here...

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