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Old
04-06-2009, 09:31 PM
  #101
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Get rid of Gagne1?!?!

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04-06-2009, 10:23 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Alright, I just got back and I'll try to ramble off anything I remember:

Sbisa-everyone in the organization thinks the world of him. They can't say enough about how good he is, and they said that his season is going to end by Wednesday when Lethbridge will get swept by Calgary. They said he would join the Phantoms until the Flyers got to the playoffs, and once he joins the team he may or may not play in the playoffs. Holmgren thinks he's going to end up being 6'4", saying he was taller than Sbisa at the draft, and when Sbisa was in his office to get send back Luca was taller.
They think a 19-year old is going to grow another 2 inches?

Sbisa was only 6'1'' at the draft, he's listed as 6'2'' now. Either Holmgren shrunk, or they took you for a ride on that one, which doesn't shock me in the least, they've been taking us for a ride about him the entire season.

That's a bit ambitious. Especially since they're going to hand him a spot on the roster next year. And that's just more framework he needs to put on.

Quote:
Jones/Alberts-A guy called Alberts out in regards to the turnovers, and Stevens admitted that that pairing has struggled as of late. He said that he still believes they can be a solid 3rd pairing, but that they are trying too hard with the puck, and that they need to get back to basics.
$4M on your 3rd pairing is too much, especially when they're not all that good. Not sure if I can think of another 5-6 combo who makes that much. Maybe the Rangers depending how much time they're giving Wade Redden.

Quote:
JVR-The prospect guys tried to keep saying that JVR had a good year, but they kept trying to downplay the fact that it was a disappointing year. They agreed that he was not being challenged enough in college, and that it was time for him to move to the next level. They said that JVR was a hard-working guy who would be the first to admit that he has other needs to work in in his game. That seemed like a good sign, that JVR was willing to improve.
I would have liked to have heard when asked if they asked JVR to leave school after the draft, and see if they could give me the answer with a straight face.

Quote:
Bodrov-They seem to be impressed with him. Said that they have tried to get him to sign and to come over, but have been unsuccessful. They said that the KHL is being even more difficult with getting players over than the RSL. They are going to keep trying to get him to come to training camp.
I'm confident that if they ventured into Russa to make a high draft pick, that they feel good that he will eventually be an NHL player. If not use him as part of a trade, where another team thinks they can attempt it.

Quote:
Backlund-They seem to think that this guy can have some success in the pro game. He was mentioned a couple of times, they said that he is going to come over here in the fall, probably meaning training camp.


Gustavsson-This is the part of the thing that disturbed me. They didn't know who Jonas Gustavsson was. I asked if they had had any contact with him or had been scouting him, and they said that they had never heard of him. They said they faintly remembered hearing the name, but didn't know anything about him. I can't figure out how they had scouted and signed Backlund, but they hadn't even heard of the younger, more talented Swedish goalie. This was disappointing, because I thought that Gustavsson had some potential to make an impact.
This is inexcusable. If we know who these guys are, they should know who these guys are. Someone should have called them out on that. That's a dream nugget from us armchair GMs. We heard of these guys, but they haven't.

Maybe I'm finally getting somewhere. The next time someone takes me to task for calling out Holmgren on every decision and get told 'I'm sure you know more than an NHL GM," I can at least say "well, I knew who Jonas Gustavsson is."

If they're scouting properly, they should have seen every relevant player, draft prospect or established veteran, in person and have scouting reports on every single one, and be able to pull out a manila folder with any particular name on it at a moment's notice. To not even know who one guy is and not the other, is just outright disturbing. It's one thing to say that they weren't interested, but to never have even heard of him? Seriously? What are these guys doing over there? Especially with the liking Holmgren has begun to take to Swedish player. And people crucify me for questioning this organization despite its success in putting together a young core.

Quote:
Bourdon/Marshall-They are happy with both of them. Think Marshall is a very good defenseman who makes the other team's life a living hell, hard hitting defenseman who is a good leader. Bourdon they said had all the talent in the world, and that he has a lot of intangibles. A good hockey mind, good stick and puck skills, and physical. The one knock on him according to them was that he maybe needed to improve on his skating and conditioning. They said that he is a raw prospect who needs shaping, but the talent is there.
I think Marshall may make the team out of camp next year, if given ample opportunity.

Quote:
Biron/Niittymaki-One of the most surprising things was that Homer believes that he can keep both of them. He said, "I don't see any reason why we can't keep both of them." He has confidence in the both of them, and that he thinks Marty is getting on that same hot streak he got on last year this year. He didn't say much about contract negotiations, saying that they have been in contact with both of their agents.
Not if the plan is to give Backlund a shot.

Quote:
Organizational Goaltending-They think that Munroe has looked good this year, he may have a future. Multiple times they cited they have some good goalie prospects that they like. They also said "we have some European goalies we like", and considering we only have two and Kovar hasn't been very good, they obviously see something in Eriksson.
...and Munroe apparently.

Quote:
The Draft-Someone asked what the chances they take a goalie in the first round is, saying that chances are they won't. This part disturbed me. They said at the spot they believed they would be picking, they didn't see anybody that was good enough. I got the standard "we will take the best player available". Pryor cited the fact that your chances of having a goalie pan out that was drafted in the 1st round is just as good as one drafted in the 7th round. I agree with this statement to a certain extent, but not to the degree that he said.
The Flyers abandoned the strategy of taking a goalie just to take a goalie a long time ago. This coincided with a string there they drafted very poorly. That is not a coincidence.

In reality, it doesn't matter when they're drafted. You're just as easy to find a goalie late in the draft than early. Marc-Andre Fleury was #1 overall, Ryan Miller was a 5th round pick. Martin Brodeur 1st round pick (behind Trevor Kidd).

JS Giguere 13th overall, Martin Biron 16th, Brian Boucher 22nd. Same draft: Miikka Kiprusoff 5th round pick, Chris Mason taken 6 picks later.

1998: Antero Niittymaki...a far more productive draft pick than Patrick DesRochers and Mathieu Chouinard...both goalies taken in the first round.

It just matters how much you like the goalie, and when you want to take them. No one drafts for need in the first round, especially teams who draft well. I'd say over 90% of the time teams go for BPA unless they really are after that goalie, or the high-level defenseman, but again, good drafting teams fill all their needs over the whole draft...not in round 1. If they take a goalie in round 1, it's because they think he is the best player, not because they need one. While I wanted them to take Markstrom with the other 1st last year, if they didn't like him, they shouldn't have taken him. BPA >>>>> Team needs. Ask any general manager.

Quote:
Salary Cap-They think that the cap is going to stay about the same this year, maybe go down the smallest bit. They are more concerned about the year after next. When asked if they were thinking about unloading one of the bigger contracts, they said that they didn't think that they had to, but if they had to they could do it.
I suppose they were as honest as they could be with this one, without saying too much

Quote:
Bouwmeester-I found this part interesting. I'll quote Homer as good as I remember it. "For me, it didn't make sense to pull the trigger. The long-term implications if we would have made the trade would not have been good for the team. We would have had to give up one of our best young forwards, one of our best young defenseman, and plus." The forward part to me means Giroux, and at that point I say no. That also probably meant Coburn, which means that what Florida was demanding was way too much.
I would try and trade for his rights in the off-season.

Quote:
Physicality on D-Holmgren is really big on puck-moving defensemen. I could tell that he really didn't like Jason Smith or Hatcher when they were here, as he constantly cited their inability to get the puck out when people brought up the lack of physicality on D. He believed that the team as a whole needed to get bigger, not necessarily more physical. Thinks Alberts brings a good physical element to the team, but the defense needs to get bigger.
You can find physical D that moves, just like Coburn (when he is physical). Boudon and Marshall may be of the same ilk. I know the guy is big on puck-moving defensemen, but there's a reason defensemen...are called defensemen.

Quote:
The team as a whole-They like where the organization is at. Luukko likes the core that they have built, and that they think they have done a good job of signing that home-grown core long term. Holmgren seems to like where the team is at right now, and so does Stevens. They have kept that core (Richards, Carter, Gagne, Coburn) together and surrounded them with good players to compliment them.

I know that was really long-winded, and I probably forgot some things. I'll add anything that I remember.
They're never going to not like the team. They liked the team in October of 2006 also, while of us got laughed at for questioning whether or not they'd even make the playoffs. I wouldn't expect them to say otherwise, and if they didn't like it, then they're admitting they're doing things wrong, which is a whole new can of worms for a team that expects to be a contender every season.

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Old
04-06-2009, 11:50 PM
  #103
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Thanks for the reports, Billy & John.

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Old
04-07-2009, 12:03 AM
  #104
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I can't say enough about these. Reading a looooong TH report is like reading an mse gtd on crack. I realize it's hard to remember and none of it should be taken as a 100% accurate interpretation of what was said, but it sure makes for an enjoyable read. Thanks guys.

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Old
04-07-2009, 01:47 AM
  #105
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Letting Gagne go would be a huge mistake in my book. Let's see if it even happens though.

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Old
04-07-2009, 02:56 AM
  #106
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What, do we not have scouts in Europe anymore? Is no one following the SEL? Someone's gotta get fired. It is unfathomable to me that Homer and co. had never even heard of Gustavsson. How is that supposed to inspire confidence? If fans on a message board know this ****, the professionals should too. Come on.

Is there another meeting? If yes, one of the STH from the board should go and give Homer a portfolio of Gustavsson.

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Old
04-07-2009, 04:23 AM
  #107
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For those up in arms about the not knowing about who Jonas Gustavsson is take a pill.

It all depends upon who was asked the questions. All the interviews were conducted in in different spots ... If whoever asked that question, asked it to anyone other than Chris Pryor, you were probably going to get a blank stare.

You can be sure the Flyers know who he is, we heavily scout the Sweedish league.

Went far enough to send Neil Little over specifically to watch Backlund a few games.

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04-07-2009, 05:47 AM
  #108
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Nobody asked about the Carcillo trade?

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Old
04-07-2009, 06:34 AM
  #109
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Thanks for the reports guys, and for being the eyes and ears for those of us too far away to attend.

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04-07-2009, 07:33 AM
  #110
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Here goes another report from STH Town Hall (on philly.com): http://forums.philly.com/n/mb/messag...rs&msg=53724.1

Most interesting part for me: "Seocndly, I asked how close were we in landing Bouwmeester and if we will pursue him this offseason. Homer responded by saying that "we are very interested" in Bouwmeester and "will pursue avenues" to bring him in. He also said that the Panthers asked for Giroux, Parent, a 1st and a conditional pick for Bouwmeester, Homer then rolled his eyes and asked if I would do that deal! So I responded, "Not very close then eh"

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Old
04-07-2009, 07:54 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
For those up in arms about the not knowing about who Jonas Gustavsson is take a pill.

It all depends upon who was asked the questions. All the interviews were conducted in in different spots ... If whoever asked that question, asked it to anyone other than Chris Pryor, you were probably going to get a blank stare.

You can be sure the Flyers know who he is, we heavily scout the Sweedish league.

Went far enough to send Neil Little over specifically to watch Backlund a few games.
Billy made it sound like they were genuinely perplexed, you could be right, but to never have even heard of the name, I mean these are professionals. I could see if he asked Stevens, I wouldn't expect him to know many guys outside the NHL, but for the other guys, they had to have at least heard of him for them to be doing their jobs properly.

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04-07-2009, 08:14 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They think a 19-year old is going to grow another 2 inches?

Sbisa was only 6'1'' at the draft, he's listed as 6'2'' now. Either Holmgren shrunk, or they took you for a ride on that one, which doesn't shock me in the least, they've been taking us for a ride about him the entire season.
Uhh, what are you talking about? It's certainly not unreasonable. I grew at least another inch after my freshman year of college, and my brother grew 2. Heck, one of my best friends grew another 3-4" after we graduated high school, and most of that came at 19-20 years old. It's not unreasonable at all, especially since we don't know his family's background when it comes to height/growth. He grew an inch in the past year, and if he's not done growing yet, he could easily get to 6'4".

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04-07-2009, 08:16 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Billy made it sound like they were genuinely perplexed, you could be right, but to never have even heard of the name, I mean these are professionals. I could see if he asked Stevens, I wouldn't expect him to know many guys outside the NHL, but for the other guys, they had to have at least heard of him for them to be doing their jobs properly.
Not true at all. If you're the NCAA scout, or the scout for the WHL, why the hell would you care about a guy in Sweden? It's not your area of responsibility. You've got enough stuff to track without remembering the name of the flavor of the year "can't miss Euro", or learning everything you can about him. Especially since God knows they never miss.

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04-07-2009, 08:17 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Billy made it sound like they were genuinely perplexed, you could be right, but to never have even heard of the name, I mean these are professionals. I could see if he asked Stevens, I wouldn't expect him to know many guys outside the NHL, but for the other guys, they had to have at least heard of him for them to be doing their jobs properly.
1) the guy getting asked may not have known about him.

2) the guy getting asked may not have wanted to talk about him.

Both are reasons you'd get that response. They have scouts specifically looking at Sweden. There are people in the organization who know every potential player in that league.

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Old
04-07-2009, 09:58 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
For those up in arms about the not knowing about who Jonas Gustavsson is take a pill.

It all depends upon who was asked the questions. All the interviews were conducted in in different spots ... If whoever asked that question, asked it to anyone other than Chris Pryor, you were probably going to get a blank stare.

You can be sure the Flyers know who he is, we heavily scout the Sweedish league.

Went far enough to send Neil Little over specifically to watch Backlund a few games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Billy made it sound like they were genuinely perplexed, you could be right, but to never have even heard of the name, I mean these are professionals. I could see if he asked Stevens, I wouldn't expect him to know many guys outside the NHL, but for the other guys, they had to have at least heard of him for them to be doing their jobs properly.

The funny thing is, that's who I asked. I didn't ask Homer, I asked Pryor and Luce, and they both looked at each other and said that they didn't recall the name.


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Old
04-07-2009, 10:02 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Nobody asked about the Carcillo trade?
Somebody asked Stevens about it. He said it had something to do with the cap and being able to keep Giroux here. Also said that they weren't happy to see Scottie leave, and they didn't want him to have to, but he cited his RFA status, and Carcillo being signed. He also said it was Scottie because he was a 5v5 player, a guy who did not play special teams, which he thought was important not to give away.

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04-07-2009, 10:54 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) the guy getting asked may not have known about him.

2) the guy getting asked may not have wanted to talk about him.

Both are reasons you'd get that response. They have scouts specifically looking at Sweden. There are people in the organization who know every potential player in that league.
I'm goona say it's this. I cannot bring myself to believe they don't know who he is. They are playing their cards close to the chest.

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04-07-2009, 10:57 AM
  #118
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i read that FLA was asking for Giroux, Parent, a 1st and a conditional pick for Bouwmeester

no thanks!

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04-07-2009, 11:49 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
i read that FLA was asking for Giroux, Parent, a 1st and a conditional pick for Bouwmeester

no thanks!
Yeah, that's pretty absurd. It's also completely dumb by Martin because he'd know we don't have the cap space for a deal like that. If you want the majority of our best prospects for one of your players who's a UFA, you have to take some salary back too.

A trade like that would mean losing three first round picks (maybe 4 and 2 of which are already solid NHLers) for a UFA, plus trading a high-priced roster player like Lupul for peanuts. No thanks is right.

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04-07-2009, 12:55 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Marty stuff is disconcerting to me.

I mean, if he finishes out the season at around .917 and has a strong playoffs, I'm betting he could find someone to give him 5 million (Huet got 5.625) and we just can't afford that unless we do some major shifting.

The fact that we don't appear to have made any progress with him makes it worse.
I think Khabibulin is gonna be cheaper than Biron, that is if he really wants Huet money. Unless Bulin gets offered a crazy contrat over in Russia.

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04-07-2009, 05:20 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Letting Gagne go would be a huge mistake in my book. Let's see if it even happens though.
Yea, I really can't see them trading him, but if they do then I think LA would be a good fit. They need wingers, and Gagne is one of the better ones in the league. I wouldn't mind getting Quick since they have Bernier coming up. Add in their 1st this year and pick up Cowen or OEL in the draft

Would clear up salary, give us a sick defensive prospect, and a goalie who has showed promise this year. Ofcourse Gagne would have to waive his NTC, which would probably be difficult.

For the record, I'd much rather see Lupul or Briere leave, but Gagne would most likely have the most trade value to other teams this summer. Also, I'm not so sure that management would want to go that much younger, especially if Knuble isn't resigned...we'd be a pretty young team.

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04-07-2009, 05:26 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
Yea, I really can't see them trading him, but if they do then I think LA would be a good fit. They need wingers, and Gagne is one of the better ones in the league. I wouldn't mind getting Quick since they have Bernier coming up. Add in their 1st this year and pick up Cowen or OEL in the draft

Would clear up salary, give us a sick defensive prospect, and a goalie who has showed promise this year. Ofcourse Gagne would have to waive his NTC, which would probably be difficult.

For the record, I'd much rather see Lupul or Briere leave, but Gagne would most likely have the most trade value to other teams this summer. Also, I'm not so sure that management would want to go that much younger, especially if Knuble isn't resigned...we'd be a pretty young team.
Lupul clears up almost as much space as Gagne. Briere clears up more than Gagne. I think we're jumping to conclusion about Gagne leaving too quickly.

I keep repeating this, but nobody seems to understand that Jones and Carle are likely the next ones to go. Marshall, Bodrov, and Sbisa have all gotten HIGH praise from the organization.

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04-07-2009, 09:18 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Lupul clears up almost as much space as Gagne. Briere clears up more than Gagne. I think we're jumping to conclusion about Gagne leaving too quickly.

I keep repeating this, but nobody seems to understand that Jones and Carle are likely the next ones to go. Marshall, Bodrov, and Sbisa have all gotten HIGH praise from the organization.
Totally agree with you there. I can't imagine any way they'll both be on this team next year.

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04-07-2009, 09:23 PM
  #124
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I just remembered something useless but amusing. Richards had a bottle of vodka in his locker where they keep their street clothes.

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Old
04-07-2009, 09:23 PM
  #125
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I just remembered something useless but amusing. Richards had a bottle of vodka in his locker where they keep their street clothes.
That's my boy!

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