HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Proposal: Zherdev on Draft Day

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-06-2009, 05:59 PM
  #26
bubba5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
I posted this on the TR board as well, thought I'd get all of your take on it. Assuming Duchene is still on the board, would you trade:

NYR 1st '09 plus the RFA rights to Zherdev

for either LAK 1st '09 or OTT 1st '09?

I love Zherdev's skill, but I don't think he has the desire/drive/whatever to succeed on a Torts coached team. Am I the only one who thinks he's been a bit sulky lately? That, combined with whatever raise he is going to be looking for lead me to believe that we might be better of trading him.

Would you do it to get Duchene? The prospect of keeping he and Grachev together for a long time is really intriguing. Would you rather let him sign an offer sheet and stockpile the picks, or would be better served trying to nab a "premium" pick?
Why would LA or Ott. want to do this?

bubba5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 07:31 PM
  #27
Synergy27
Registered User
 
Synergy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Country: United States
Posts: 5,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Why would LA or Ott. want to do this?
LA is stocked with youth and are looking for players who can contribute now.

OTT isn't in as good a position, but at least a few of their fans seemed interested on the main board.

Synergy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 07:52 PM
  #28
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
He doesn't stick handle because the coach doesn't want him too. There is fear in his game now after being benched numerous times.

We did the same thing with Kovalev. Players like Zherdev,Kovalev, you need to let them do their thing.
totally agree.

seriously this is the only post in the whole thread that makes any sense what so ever. we have him, hes a talent and hes young. trade him for someone who might help us 2 years from now or maybe never? stupid.

sign him, surround him with more talent like antro for a whole season and let him mature.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:02 PM
  #29
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,441
vCash: 500
I'm not totally opposed to trading Z, but who fills his place? We are hurting for top 6 guys which is why we traded for him in the first place...

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:20 PM
  #30
captain9nyr
@captain9nyr
 
captain9nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hammonton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 944
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to captain9nyr
In the event that Zherdev wouldn't be resigned, why don't we just take the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd we'd get as compensation, keep our 1st, and make 2 picks in the 1st round?

captain9nyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:21 PM
  #31
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
totally agree.

seriously this is the only post in the whole thread that makes any sense what so ever. we have him, hes a talent and hes young. trade him for someone who might help us 2 years from now or maybe never? stupid.

sign him, surround him with more talent like antro for a whole season and let him mature.
With what money?

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 08:22 PM
  #32
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckhead94 View Post
In the event that Zherdev wouldn't be resigned, why don't we just take the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd we'd get as compensation, keep our 1st, and make 2 picks in the 1st round?
2 reasons. One, we may not get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. If the offer sheet is for 3.5 mil per year, for example, we would only get a 1st and 3rd. And two, we won't get the picks until 2010.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 09:07 PM
  #33
captain9nyr
@captain9nyr
 
captain9nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hammonton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 944
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to captain9nyr
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
2 reasons. One, we may not get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. If the offer sheet is for 3.5 mil per year, for example, we would only get a 1st and 3rd. And two, we won't get the picks until 2010.
If the deal is for 3.5 a year, don't you think the Rangers would match?

captain9nyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 09:24 PM
  #34
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckhead94 View Post
If the deal is for 3.5 a year, don't you think the Rangers would match?
If the Rangers don't plan to resign Antropov, maybe. Unless we move one of our big contracts, we won't have the money to resign both Zherdev and Antropov. Personally, I think it makes more sense to resign Antropov and get what you can for Zherdev, rather than let Antropov walk for nothing after spending a 2nd round pick to get him.

Yeah, Zherdev is younger, but that's the only thing going for him right now. Both players are equally productive. It's a tough call and it sucks that we have to choose between them. Maybe Sather will surprise us and unload one of those contracts at the draft.

Maybe instead of Zherdev and our 1st, LA would take Gomez or Drury and our 1st. We can wish, right?

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 09:36 PM
  #35
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
This thread makes you realize just how hopeless our situation will be for a looong time.

Cup contenders necessarily have two no. 1 centers... we have a pretty good 2nd line C and a borderline 2nd line C.

Cup contenders have 2 high-scoring wingers... we have Naslund (but 9 years too late) and Zherdev, the no. 4 pick in the best draft in history, whose potential I supposedly overrate.

Cup contenders have good, young forwards who can score... at least we have Callahan, 'cause Dubinsky seems like a poor-man's Drury.

Cup contenders have 4-6 very good d-men... we have Staal, and the other five suck.

BobMarleyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-06-2009, 09:58 PM
  #36
Turambar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I think it makes more sense to resign Antropov and get what you can for Zherdev, rather than let Antropov walk for nothing after spending a 2nd round pick to get him.
If your motivation is that you don't want to see something of value lost for nothing (a la Antro walking away and us losing a 2nd-rounder), shouldn't you be more concerned with letting Zherdev walk away and losing Fedor Tyutin for nothing?



Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Yeah, Zherdev is younger, but that's the only thing going for him right now. Both players are equally productive. It's a tough call and it sucks that we have to choose between them.
Sooo, let me get this straight-- both players are equally productive, so you choose the far older one?

Turambar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 06:48 AM
  #37
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
With what money?
redden or rozy. one of them gone. reddens unmoveable so its rozy. history. draft day salary dump.

nazy/gomez/drury. need 2 of them gone. again, draft day dump. prefer drury and nazy moved away. keep gomez or drury. not both.

dont resign colton orr.

free up enough cash to resign antro and zherdev. thats the priority for this team right now.

time to let arty play some hockey for us. potter or sauer or both will play solid minutes for this team next season.

i would be very happy with gomez/dubi/artem/betts as our 4 centerman next year.

i could go to war with this top 9

zherdev/gomez/antro
calli/dubi/avery
korpedo/artem/grachev

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 06:51 AM
  #38
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
If your motivation is that you don't want to see something of value lost for nothing (a la Antro walking away and us losing a 2nd-rounder), shouldn't you be more concerned with letting Zherdev walk away and losing Fedor Tyutin for nothing?
How would we lose Tyutin for nothing? We can actually get something in return for Zherdev. Either we trade his rights as the OP suggested, or someone signs him to an offer sheet and we get compensation when we don't match. Antropov is a UFA. If he walks, we get nothing.

Quote:
Sooo, let me get this straight-- both players are equally productive, so you choose the far older one?
It's about asset management. We can have Antropov + 2 or 3 extra picks or we can have Zherdev. Antropov is older, yes, but he's also much bigger. That size is helpful in front of the goal. And it doesn't seem like Torts has much patience for Zherdev anyway.

I'd rather not have to lose either of them, but this is the situation Sather has put us in. Unless he can move one of those big contracts, we simply can't afford both Zherdev and Antropov.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 07:08 AM
  #39
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
redden or rozy. one of them gone. reddens unmoveable so its rozy. history. draft day salary dump.

nazy/gomez/drury. need 2 of them gone. again, draft day dump. prefer drury and nazy moved away. keep gomez or drury. not both.
You say that like it's easy. What teams are going to take these players off our hands? I'm not saying it can't happen, but I don't see many teams that will be willing to take on Gomez or Drury's contract.

The most realistic scenario is that we trade Rosy and buy out Naslund. That would save us 7 mil next year, which would allow us to sign both Antropov and Zherdev. Morris will still walk though. I don't think we could afford to resign him, not with Girardi and Staal needing to be resigned in 2010.

Quote:
dont resign colton orr.
How does this help us, cap-wise? Orr makes minimal money and will continue to do so. If we don't resign him, we still have to replace him in the lineup.

Quote:
time to let arty play some hockey for us. potter or sauer or both will play solid minutes for this team next season.

i would be very happy with gomez/dubi/artem/betts as our 4 centerman next year.

i could go to war with this top 9

zherdev/gomez/antro
calli/dubi/avery
korpedo/artem/grachev
So we'd have 4 rookies in the lineup? That might make for a tough season. And what if some of them aren't ready?

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 09:38 AM
  #40
Hockey2000nyr
Registered User
 
Hockey2000nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
see heres the thing with gomez's contract, its all frontloaded and the salary cap hit is the average of the deal....so for small market teams having trouble reaching the floor, they can acquire a guy with a big salary cap hit, and yet his actual salary would be lower then his salary cap hit....it might not be next season that it is this way, but in a year or two gomez's salary cap situation would be something of value to smaller market teams....something to think about...sather might have screwed us by signing 3 big contracts, but he wasnt too stupid with the way he structured their contracts....all drury redden gomez and rozy's contracts are all fronloaded. meaning the further they are in their contract the less actual money they make....salary cap hit stays the same, actual salary goes down, becomes more marketable to small market teams....

Hockey2000nyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 09:59 AM
  #41
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
The only thing more insulting and worthless than a post full of nothing but emoticons is a post responding to such a post with "this". Appreciate the value you've added to the conversation.
There is absolutely no need or reason to trade a 24 year old that has lead the team in points, goals, and +/- this season.

The WHOLE TEAM was offensively impotent this year, and that is because we never acquired any legitimate goal scorers, no legitimate offensive leaders.

Zherdev MAY not be a dominating offensive presence, but on a PROPERLY CONSTRUCTED team, he doesn't need to be.

Zherdev's 60 points, and 20+ goals per year that he will put up at UNDER 5 mil per year is worth a hell of a lot more to us then ANY first round pick unless we are talking about Tavares, Headman, or Kirill Kabanov... and we aren't talking about them.

Zherdev stays.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 03:02 PM
  #42
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You say that like it's easy. What teams are going to take these players off our hands? I'm not saying it can't happen, but I don't see many teams that will be willing to take on Gomez or Drury's contract.

The most realistic scenario is that we trade Rosy and buy out Naslund. That would save us 7 mil next year, which would allow us to sign both Antropov and Zherdev. Morris will still walk though. I don't think we could afford to resign him, not with Girardi and Staal needing to be resigned in 2010.



How does this help us, cap-wise? Orr makes minimal money and will continue to do so. If we don't resign him, we still have to replace him in the lineup.



So we'd have 4 rookies in the lineup? That might make for a tough season. And what if some of them aren't ready?
it aint gonna be easy thats for sure.

we must trade rozy on draft day. unfortunately, reddens going nowhere.

we must move or buyout naslund. salary dump.

look to move either drury or gomez. not saying this will be easy, just that we need to make every effort to do so. we cannot afford both of them.

not a big orr fan. sorry. its more than what he makes, hes just awful. it may be tough guy by committee next year. replacing him wont be difficult unless we need a heavyweight to beat someone down every game. dane byers seems to be the guy who would step in to orrs spot.

4 rookies in line up? no. 3 rookies. sauer or potter, artem and grachev.

one of the 2 dmen will need to play.

artem is out most accomplished prospect and by all accounts, ready to make the jump. he should be our 3rd line centerman next year. i wouldnt be surprised if he were the 2nd centerman by year end next season allowing dubi to move back to wing if neccessary.

grachev may be able to make the jump. probably not but wouldnt it be nice to have our best power forward prospect make a statement in camp and stick around. if he cant stick, we may well need someone other than sjo to play on that 3rd line.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 03:51 PM
  #43
hashmarks
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,830
vCash: 500
Who in their right mind would sign Zherdev to an offer sheet?

The people in the league know who he is and what he is about.

It is only fans who are in love with the 'flash' that don't have any comprehension of what kind of substance a player has to have in order to help his team win who think he is worthy of being a cornerstone of a team.

The jackets, even WITH the acquisition of Backman made out like bandits in that deal.

hashmarks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-07-2009, 05:40 PM
  #44
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,529
vCash: 500
I think if you do it for Duchene, you do it for Cowen or MSP with the idea that any of them will mature to a better player than Zherdev and you've conceded that Z will never be all that his talent can make him or he's demanding too much and you're not willing to pay him.

Maybe the better option is to keep Z until he has a really hot year, until then I suppose his trade value is that of an above average defenseman and is an above average defenseman enough to make someone want pass on a draftee who's easily in the top 5 and drop 10 places or so in the draft?

I don't think I move Z unless the team is looking to rebuild or if he is simply demanding too much money. He's a great guy to have on a 2nd line. The problem is the team is full of guys like this and because Z is a RFA he should come cheaper than others.

vipernsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.