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Dynamo Moscow signs Omark and Harju

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:07 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I think you need to pay closer attention to what was offered.

They are willing to bring him over and they are willing to give him the opportunity to play in the NHL.

The only thing they aren't willing to do is give him a NHL roster without him earning it based on performance.

As it should be.

A dysfunctional team would gaurantee him that spot, damn the consequences.

I thought the mandate of all NHL teams was to ice the best team possible, can you say that without a doubt Omark would fit with that mandate?
If he comes over and is clearly not good enough for the NHL, we have nothing binding that makes us keep him on the team. Would giving Omark a chance and then losing him because he didn't want to get demoted not be a better option than losing him without giving him a shot?

You may argue it hurts our "image", but if he is clearly not good enough to be in the NHL, and people see it, there will be no backlash.

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04-08-2009, 12:08 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
He most definitely could play with the Oilers next year. He could also get hurt in camp, start the season in the AHL, have someone else take his place in the NHL, have that player hold the roster spot for the year leaving Omark in the minors making next to nothing, as the Oilers have never let offensive talent rot in the minors before
He could also get hit by a bus walking out of the Moscow airport.

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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
The point of the matter is, we we're not even willing to pay him 850,000 dollars and some bonuses if he stuck on the Oilers. If he made the Oilers it would likely have been on the 2nd or 3rd line. Replacing someone with a higher cap figure over the next 2-3 years.

If he wasn't good enough we send him to the minors, or loan him to the KHL/SEL and don't worry about it till next year in camp.

I don't see how anyone can find a legitmate reason to justify letting Omark leave the Oilers franchise.
And that's a fine argument. Maybe the Oilers could have gotten a little closer to what he wanted. I've been focusing on Omark. My problem is this whole "My dream is to play in the NHL" stuff. If that's the case, take the NHL contract, and don't go in the opposite direction. Do you think that most NHL GMs see the KHL as a step toward the NHL?

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04-08-2009, 12:10 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
We're also hearing it could be a two-year deal. So when that deal's up, does he think he's more likely to make the NHL without going through the AHL? He could be in for a shock.
2 year deal is still short enough for a NHL to take a risk and draft him. I'd certainly take him over completely unknowns right now, he has at least proven enough in a good league. I still don't understand anyone's logic that he should risk playing in the AHL just because he could get to the NHL a little sooner. He did what was best for him and his family, and I don't think anyone should blame him for it. He is also going to a good league, on good team where he could still develop. He is not John Tavares where NHL teams will line up to get him, thats why he can't risk it. The Oilers should have given him a guarentee because they're not taking a big risk. 850k means very little to Katz.

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04-08-2009, 12:10 PM
  #179
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Just the first of many disappointments coming this off-season. Even though we are a big stinky turd, we wont be able to attract flies this summer. Thats what happens when your organization is run by clowns.

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04-08-2009, 12:12 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
And if that's the case, we'll all be looking back a few years ago wondering why there was all this fuss over a player that didn't have what it takes to make the NHL.
Exactly, but being a GM is sometimes a game of taking risks. The Oilers have alot to lose if Omark turns out great, and little to lose if he doesn't. Omark has a great deal to lose if he doesn't get a guarentee. Seems perfectly logical to me, for the Oilers to take the risk, and for Omark not to take that risk.

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04-08-2009, 12:14 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
He most definitely could play with the Oilers next year. He could also get hurt in camp, start the season in the AHL, have someone else take his place in the NHL, have that player hold the roster spot for the year leaving Omark in the minors making next to nothing, as the Oilers have never let offensive talent rot in the minors before

The point of the matter is, we we're not even willing to pay him 850,000 dollars and some bonuses if he stuck on the Oilers. If he made the Oilers it would likely have been on the 2nd or 3rd line. Replacing someone with a higher cap figure over the next 2-3 years.

If he wasn't good enough we send him to the minors, or loan him to the KHL/SEL and don't worry about it till next year in camp.

I don't see how anyone can find a legitmate reason to justify letting Omark leave the Oilers franchise.
IMO this is a negotiating ploy -there was no need for Omark to sign this early in the summer. My bet is the Oilers cave in like they did on Comrie and if he's demoted from the NHL he'll go to Russia instead of the AHL.

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04-08-2009, 12:14 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
Exactly, but being a GM is sometimes a game of taking risks. The Oilers have alot to lose if Omark turns out great, and little to lose if he doesn't. Omark has a great deal to lose if he doesn't get a guarentee. Seems perfectly logical to me, for the Oilers to take the risk, and for Omark not to take that risk.
He has a greater deal to lose if he actually can play in the NHL but throws it all down the toilet by rejecting an NHL contract. It could be his only one.

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04-08-2009, 12:14 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Just the first of many disappointments coming this off-season. Even though we are a big stinky turd, we wont be able to attract flies this summer. Thats what happens when your organization is run by clowns.
+1

We aren't signing anyone big this summer. If we are lucky we can convince Marty to come back, that may be about it.

Man it's going to kill me when Bouw signing in Calgary or Vancouver

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04-08-2009, 12:16 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by vb View Post
IMO this is a negotiating ploy -there was no need for Omark to sign this early in the summer. My bet is the Oilers cave in like they did on Comrie and if he's demoted from the NHL he'll go to Russia instead of the AHL.
Isn't there a no-poaching agreement between the NHL and KHL now? I thought they did that after the Radulov debacle.

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:16 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
The only thing they aren't willing to do is give him a NHL roster without him earning it based on performance.
Dynamo Moscow was obviously willing to give him a KHL roster spot based on performance, on this years performance that is. NHL teams may need to do better scouting in the future, because it's likely they will not easily get europeans like Omark "into their system" with two-way contracts.

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04-08-2009, 12:17 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
He has a greater deal to lose if he actually can play in the NHL but throws it all down the toilet by rejecting an NHL contract. It could be his only one.
If he can play in the NHL, he will dominate in the KHL and then play in the NHL. It won't be his only NHL offer!

If he can't play in the NHL, and he signs in the NHL, he gets demoted and plays in the AHL. TERRIBLE idea.

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04-08-2009, 12:18 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
If he can play in the NHL, he will dominate in the KHL and then play in the NHL. It won't be his only NHL offer!

If he can't play in the NHL, and he signs in the NHL, he gets demoted and plays in the AHL. TERRIBLE idea.
There are lots of players in Russia who could play in the NHL, but will never be offered a contract.

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:19 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Garl View Post
He wasn't asking for anything like that exept for rookie max, and even here I'm pretty sure he would have signed if Oilers would have shown that they believe in him and don't sign him for AHL.
Honest question, do you have proof or whatever? I'm not trying to argue or be edgy, or whatever, but I'd like to see a link to read from.

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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
If he can play in the NHL, he will dominate in the KHL and then play in the NHL. It won't be his only NHL offer!

If he can't play in the NHL, and he signs in the NHL, he gets demoted and plays in the AHL. TERRIBLE idea.
What if he sucks in the KHL??

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04-08-2009, 12:21 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
There are lots of players in Russia who could play in the NHL, but will never be offered a contract.
Are you just playing devil's advocate at this point?

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04-08-2009, 12:25 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
There are lots of players in Russia who could play in the NHL, but will never be offered a contract.
Because they don't want to play in the NHL, not because the NHL hates KHL talent. If Morozov wants to come to the NHL he can, but he likes Russia.

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What if he sucks in the KHL??
Thats exactly what I just said. If he sucks in the KHL, what are his chances of succeeding in a better league? Not much, and he would get demoted to the AHL. Where are they demoting him if he gets guarenteed money in the KHL?

If he sucks in the KHL, he still gets paid which is the best decision for him and his family.

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04-08-2009, 12:28 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by romelson View Post
Dynamo Moscow was obviously willing to give him a KHL roster spot based on performance, on this years performance that is.
That's great, but in fairness the KHL also has more similarities to the league he is coming out of than the NHL does.

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04-08-2009, 12:34 PM
  #192
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The way I understand it is, because there's no transfer agreement with IIHF and the fact that the NHLPA lost it's challenge to the current CBA (Article 8.6 or i.e Cherepanov) back in late 2008, all unsigned drafted Europeans essentially turn "Defected Status". Which means each team (this case EDM and TB) still retain their rights (Indefinately)

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=546690

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008...ed_player.html

"November 4, New York Post: The league's victory in that grievance as awarded by arbiter Richard Bloch, essentially gives teams the rights to these players into perpetuity for as long as there is no IIHF transfer agreement between the NHL and international hockey federations."

"The NHLPA lost the grievance it filed against the league based on testimony by deputy commissioner Bill Daly as to communications with, and the intent of, former PA executive director Ted Saskin when the sides agreed via a letter agreement on July 22, 2005 to temporarily adopt "defected player" status in the absence of a transfer agreement."

"Though the letter agreement had expired and the PA did not agree to extend it, the NHL sent a May 19 memo to league general managers advising them that it was reinstituting "defected player" status."

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:36 PM
  #193
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Now i am pissed and i have got a stupid avater. They can not even woo a fourth rounder with tallent to come play on the team. He'll play one year in the KHL and be signed by Bloody Tampa. This is Tambo's Strike one and i am almost willing to give him two strikes for this. PATHETIC is the word to describe this once proud franchise Pathetic.

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04-08-2009, 12:36 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
The way I understand it is, because there's no transfer agreement with IIHF and the fact that the NHLPA lost it's challenge to the current CBA (Article 8.6 or i.e Cherepanov) back in late 2008, all unsigned drafted Europeans essentially turn "Defected Status". Which means each team (this case EDM and TB) still retain their rights (Indefinately)

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=546690

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008...ed_player.html

"November 4, New York Post: The league's victory in that grievance as awarded by arbiter Richard Bloch, essentially gives teams the rights to these players into perpetuity for as long as there is no IIHF transfer agreement between the NHL and international hockey federations."

"The NHLPA lost the grievance it filed against the league based on testimony by deputy commissioner Bill Daly as to communications with, and the intent of, former PA executive director Ted Saskin when the sides agreed via a letter agreement on July 22, 2005 to temporarily adopt "defected player" status in the absence of a transfer agreement."

"Though the letter agreement had expired and the PA did not agree to extend it, the NHL sent a May 19 memo to league general managers advising them that it was reinstituting "defected player" status."
If thats the case, then theres no argument here. As long as the Oilers don't lose his NHL rights its all cool.

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:36 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Terva View Post
This is the canadian thing against swedes and european players. Reading the comments on this board confirms it.
What a load of horse hooey.

First, the very existence... nay, prominence of several Swedish players on Canadian teams even just this year is enough to completely nullify your claim that we, as Canadians, are somehow biased against Swedes and Europeans. Someone get Jari Kurri on the phone... it turns out we weren't retiring his jersey to honour him, but we were just trying to get it as far away from the ice as possible. Then call the Sedins, Sundin, and Alfredsson, and warn them to get a flight to Stockholm ASAP, before the angry mobs find them.

As for your last comment, reading this board confirms nothing you didn't want confirmed already.

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:38 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
The way I understand it is, because there's no transfer agreement with IIHF and the fact that the NHLPA lost it's challenge to the current CBA (Article 8.6 or i.e Cherepanov) back in late 2008, all unsigned drafted Europeans essentially turn "Defected Status". Which means each team (this case EDM and TB) still retain their rights (Indefinately)

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=546690

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008...ed_player.html

"November 4, New York Post: The league's victory in that grievance as awarded by arbiter Richard Bloch, essentially gives teams the rights to these players into perpetuity for as long as there is no IIHF transfer agreement between the NHL and international hockey federations."

"The NHLPA lost the grievance it filed against the league based on testimony by deputy commissioner Bill Daly as to communications with, and the intent of, former PA executive director Ted Saskin when the sides agreed via a letter agreement on July 22, 2005 to temporarily adopt "defected player" status in the absence of a transfer agreement."

"Though the letter agreement had expired and the PA did not agree to extend it, the NHL sent a May 19 memo to league general managers advising them that it was reinstituting "defected player" status."
excellent, thats what i was hoping.. so in two years, we'll see how he is doing.

Edit: how long is this contract, for some reason i figured it was two but now cannot find where i read it.

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:40 PM
  #197
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Are you just playing devil's advocate at this point?
Is that an argument?

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:40 PM
  #198
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The media here is reporting that Dynamo has the intention of making a scoring line with Omark, Harju and Weinhandl. Depending on wether Dynamo extends Weinhandls loan or not.
"Scoring line" and "Weinhandl" are two things I never thought possible to see in the same sentence.

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:41 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post

He just said he doesn't want to play in the AHL and only wants the NHL. Whats wrong with choosing KHL over AHL?
$1 million tax free vs $65,000 maximum if he is in the AHL...

What took Omark so long to make that decision................


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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post

If he's so good, why not just go to Edmonton and make the team? He finished 3rd in scoring in Sweden, so it should be easy, shouldn't it?

If he's successful, he'll soon be making a lot more than $1.8 million or whatever he'll be getting in Russia.

If not, the KHL will likely be waiting to throw money at him when he's done.

It's obviously all about the money with him, and that's the disappointing part, especially when he says the NHL is his "dream".
If he fails in the NHL, he has lost his negotiating power - the KHL will no longer be there...

And why shouldn't it be about the money?


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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post

Maybe players are aware of death by Mactavish and dont want to be buried in the minors.
Katz's text message of "MacTavish isn't going anywhere" was the final straw.... Maybe it was not about the money.....


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There are lots of players in Russia who could play in the NHL, but will never be offered a contract.
Is this where I am supposed to start talking about Mikhnov........

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:41 PM
  #200
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Strike one against the Tambo-bot.

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