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BOB go with the hot hand, Halak!!!

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:15 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HabsPack View Post
The first goal last night shouldn't have happened, Price was on his knees for no reason at all, the second goal was a joke, 100% on Price.

The problem is Halak isn't much better and for that the blame lands on Gainey for thinking Price/Halak would be able to backstop this team deep into the playoffs.
There was no alternative. Did you expect Luongo to fall out of the sky and into our laps? Name me a goalie that was available and better than Price?

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04-08-2009, 12:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Doc Madsen View Post
Oh you mean like the type of goal that Kovy scores on all the time...umm yeah.
It wasn't even that great of a shot by Heatley (he can rip them top corner a lot harder than that), there is no excuse for that goal not to be stopped he saw the shot perfectly.

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04-08-2009, 12:33 PM
  #53
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Price isn't even in the top-30 NHL goalies as far as SV% is concerned. Halak is top-20.

Peronally, I'd go with Halak next game. If he losses, regardless of the score, you go with Price to try and win you a spot. If Halak wins, that's just the way it goes.

I've always been a fan of the win your in system, unless your on a streak and you play a great game in lose (for example, Price wins 3 games, loses the 4th but makes 35 saves in a 1-0 loss).. when you have two goalies at our caliber.

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04-08-2009, 12:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Komi4Vezina View Post
Re-read. Not judging on last night only, I wouldn't have made this post because he played alright last night even if he looked shaky early on.
Well, before last night he had the flu, before the flu he was playing well and our team was winning.

So I don't get it because with Halak, you say we shouldn't look back earlier this year, and with Price you're saying it's before yesterday (before we were winning, which is about 3weeks ago).
Contradicting much??..

Price and Halak have been pretty similar so far this year. Their numbers even themselves out Price has a better GAA but Halak a better Sv%.
So which ever one we ride with until the end of the season won't matter. They're both very capable and neither is coming off a 3month injury.
Also, Price or Halak in, we won't win if we don't play better defensively.

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04-08-2009, 12:57 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, before last night he had the flu, before the flu he was playing well and our team was winning.

So I don't get it because with Halak, you say we shouldn't look back earlier this year, and with Price you're saying it's before yesterday (before we were winning, which is about 3weeks ago).
Contradicting much??..

Price and Halak have been pretty similar so far this year. Their numbers even themselves out Price has a better GAA but Halak a better Sv%.
So which ever one we ride with until the end of the season won't matter. They're both very capable and neither is coming off a 3month injury.
Also, Price or Halak in, we won't win if we don't play better defensively.
Not to defend Halak, but any goalie/player will tell you that SV% is a far better stat to judge a goalie. GAA is normally a team state, similar to +/-.

Kari Lethonen has one of the worst GAA's in the league, but he's an incredible goalie on a horrible team.

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04-08-2009, 01:00 PM
  #56
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After the way Price looked last night I'd go with Halak. Price seems to have split personality or something. You could tell within the first 3 minutes it was his unconfident twin brother out there. He kind of stabilized a little as the game went on but for the most part he was shaky, slow to pick up loose pucks, didn't look hungry and too deep in his net, i.e not challenging the shooter and limiting angles (See Drury's first goal).

I'd go with Halak and stick with him for the last two.

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04-08-2009, 01:01 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Not to defend Halak, but any goalie/player will tell you that SV% is a far better stat to judge a goalie. GAA is normally a team state, similar to +/-.

Kari Lethonen has one of the worst GAA's in the league, but he's an incredible goalie on a horrible team.
GAA on the same team means a lot though. Comparing them between teams isn't great I agree.

Exactly like +/- stats are clear indicators on a team. If one player has a +5 and everyone else on his team has a -10 then you know that the player is probably better defensively (or at least produces a lot of 5on5 goals to counter his give aways).

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04-08-2009, 01:03 PM
  #58
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If Markov doesn't come back, I'd go with Halak.

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04-08-2009, 01:06 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by jnthomas View Post
GAA on the same team means a lot though. Comparing them between teams isn't great I agree.

Exactly like +/- stats are clear indicators on a team. If one player has a +5 and everyone else on his team has a -10 then you know that the player is probably better defensively (or at least produces a lot of 5on5 goals to counter his give aways).
Fair enough, but then you need to look at the other factors.

Halak, until the last couple of months was purely a back-up and sometime went 2+ weeks without playing. That's going to have some effect on you.

I'm not saying Halak has played incredibly better than Price this season, but he has been the better goalie for the year as a whole. Their winning %'s (Price: 0.489, Halak: 0.545) also speak for themselves, though neither is exceptional.

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04-08-2009, 01:11 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, before last night he had the flu, before the flu he was playing well and our team was winning.

So I don't get it because with Halak, you say we shouldn't look back earlier this year, and with Price you're saying it's before yesterday (before we were winning, which is about 3weeks ago).
Contradicting much??..


Price and Halak have been pretty similar so far this year. Their numbers even themselves out Price has a better GAA but Halak a better Sv%.
So which ever one we ride with until the end of the season won't matter. They're both very capable and neither is coming off a 3month injury.
Also, Price or Halak in, we won't win if we don't play better defensively.
I'm talking about recent performances, don't look only at 1 game, but don't go back to how it was in december...

Halak in his last 10 :

PCT - 0.935
GAA - 2.35

Price in his last 10 :

PCT - 0.905
GAA - 3.22

Even that...it's not all about statistics, I'm not trying to put Price down, these stats are unfair because he had some really bad games but most of the time he played really well.

I still have faith in Price, and I have to, because I know that Price will be the one in net. I'm not bashing him, but I would prefer to see Halak, I think he's more consistent and gives us a chance to win every game.

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04-08-2009, 01:11 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komi4Vezina View Post
In hockey, as in any sport, momentum is really important, the way Halak has played lately is more important than what he did in December. He looks fully confident right now.



I'm comparing to Huet, because Halak was deserving to play that last game, as he deserves to play right now. Huet played, and we all had a hard time accepting that loss considering Halak could have been playing.
Well I like Halak but he lost his last game and possibly beat the 2 worst teams in the league before that.

He also had his chance 2 years ago to put us in the playoffs and failed in a game in New York against the Rags giving up a goal right off the bat,a slapper from the blue line

Price should be in nets,win or lose

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04-08-2009, 01:37 PM
  #62
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Halak instead of Price? Right...

And Jersey should go with Clemmenson instead of Brodeur.

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04-08-2009, 01:37 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Halak instead of Price? Right...

And Jersey should go with Clemmenson instead of Brodeur.
More comparisons of Price to Brodeur? Really?

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04-08-2009, 01:41 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Halak instead of Price? Right...

And Jersey should go with Clemmenson instead of Brodeur.
What an idiotic comparison.

When Price has 1/4 the career that Brodeur has had maybe then he'll earn the right to play in every game regardless of his performance. Right now Halak has the better stats and seems to be playing with more confidence. He has better career numbers, better numbers this season, and better numbers recently.

I'm not going to be pissed if Price plays the last two games since he was looking better before last night's game, but it's definitely not ridiculous to suggest that maybe Halak should play instead.

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04-08-2009, 01:51 PM
  #65
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Funny how most rookie goalies get about 15-25 starts a year but price is the goto guys and needs 60 plus the playoffs. Can we please look at both our goalies objectively...as in two young good goalies both playing for the number one that neither has proven they deserve 100%
Or is that too hard for some fans to figure out. Price isn't ready to be full time to me, at least not the second half of this year. If you cared about price you wouldn't want him to get demolished in the playoffs in 4 straight either.
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Well I like Halak but he lost his last game and possibly beat the 2 worst teams in the league before that.

He also had his chance 2 years ago to put us in the playoffs and failed in a game in New York against the Rags giving up a goal right off the bat,a slapper from the blue line

Price should be in nets,win or lose
You mean when he won 9 out of 10 games while both toronto and NY won 8 of 10 to keep it that close to start with. Yeah he was terrible, if he had just lost in OT once during that stretch we wouldn't even have cared if we played that last game.

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04-08-2009, 01:53 PM
  #66
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I would let Halak take the road loss in Boston then come back with Price at home against the Penguins.

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04-08-2009, 01:53 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Not to defend Halak, but any goalie/player will tell you that SV% is a far better stat to judge a goalie. GAA is normally a team state, similar to +/-.

Kari Lethonen has one of the worst GAA's in the league, but he's an incredible goalie on a horrible team.
That doesnt hold when both goalies are playing for the same team. When the same team play in front of Price, it is giving up less goals.

If you got those 2 choices (knowing they have been playing for the same team).

Goalie A: 2,01 GAA 0,910 SA
Goalie B: 3,01 GAA 0,945 SA

Who would you pick? Goalie A every single time.

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04-08-2009, 01:56 PM
  #68
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So you go with fernandez instead of thomas...go ask the bruins how they feel about that.

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04-08-2009, 01:57 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anksun View Post
That doesnt hold when both goalies are playing for the same team. When the same team play in front of Price, it is giving up less goals.

If you got those 2 choices (knowing they have been playing for the same team).

Goalie A: 2,01 GAA 0,910 SA
Goalie B: 3,01 GAA 0,945 SA

Who would you pick? Goalie A every single time.
Actually in a situation like that I'd have to assume that Goalie B gives up a lot of rebounds thus inflating his SA, which would be a second detriment on him.

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04-08-2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komi4Vezina View Post
I'm talking about recent performances, don't look only at 1 game, but don't go back to how it was in december...

Halak in his last 10 :

PCT - 0.935
GAA - 2.35

Price in his last 10 :

PCT - 0.905
GAA - 3.22
Why would you back as far as 20 games ago with the last 10 for both of them?
Because it works in favor of Halak?

Last 5 games:

Price: 2,40 0,9184
Halak: 2,40 0,920

With Price actuallly been the more consistent goalie in his last 5 games with a 3-1-1 record to Halak 2-3-0.

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04-08-2009, 02:07 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komi4Vezina View Post
I'm talking about recent performances, don't look only at 1 game, but don't go back to how it was in december...

Halak in his last 10 :

PCT - 0.935
GAA - 2.35

Price in his last 10 :

PCT - 0.905
GAA - 3.22

Even that...it's not all about statistics, I'm not trying to put Price down, these stats are unfair because he had some really bad games but most of the time he played really well.

I still have faith in Price, and I have to, because I know that Price will be the one in net. I'm not bashing him, but I would prefer to see Halak, I think he's more consistent and gives us a chance to win every game.
Price has been injured. It took him a long time before getting back into game shape. This happened to Luongo in Vancouver as well. It took him a good month or two before becoming as dominant as he was.

Yesterday, he was playing after missing 3games with the Flu. He became more solid as the game continued. 3Goals in 41 shots, after a slow start.
Halak allowed 2Goals in 5 Shots in the 3rd Period of the game in Ottawa. That's unacceptable regardless of who takes the shots.

Over the last 2 games, Price and Halak both looked shaky early on. Each were saved by their post in the beginning of the first. Halak was less tested and couldn't make key saves in the 3rd that would give us the Win.
Price after being shaky, looked more and more solid as the game went on. Gave his team a chance to stay in the game by making some nice saves and was tested a lot more.

I was very disappointed this season with the way Halak was handled. I thought Price were given the net often when Halak was much more deserving. But right now, I'd put Price back in nets because he finished strong while Halak finished weak.

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04-08-2009, 02:08 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
More comparisons of Price to Brodeur? Really?
No, its not a comparison of Price to Brodeur. (Please, I like Price but let's stay in the real world here.) I think you know that's not what I'm saying.

Its a parallel to the way of thinking on these boards.

"Let's just go with the hot goalie!"

Its a kneejerk reaction for a team that has gone in the tank. And btw, the way the team is playing now is not Price or Halak's fault.
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Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
What an idiotic comparison.

When Price has 1/4 the career that Brodeur has had maybe then he'll earn the right to play in every game regardless of his performance. Right now Halak has the better stats and seems to be playing with more confidence. He has better career numbers, better numbers this season, and better numbers recently.
Its not an idiotic comparison.

You guys are sitting there chirping about how much better Halak has been. You completely ignore Price's numbers from last season, before the injury and over the past month. Yes, he had a bad stretch after being hurt... that doesn't negate the fact that he's our best netminder and deserves the chance to get us there.

Dumping Price is an overly reactive (and overly simplistic) way of handling things and its a great way to screw up your team. Not to mention the fact that the move is unwarranted.

And don't kid yourself, if the situation were reversed and we had Brodeur (who is in the tank himself right now) and Clemmenson we'd see silly threads like this for Clemmenson over Marty. Its an exact parallel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
I'm not going to be pissed if Price plays the last two games since he was looking better before last night's game, but it's definitely not ridiculous to suggest that maybe Halak should play instead.
You're right, we should just bench him for critical games so he rots.

He's been just as good (arguably better) than Halak lately, there's no reason to bench your young starter for a guy who's going to be a career backup. It makes zero sense.


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04-08-2009, 02:41 PM
  #73
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That doesnt hold when both goalies are playing for the same team. When the same team play in front of Price, it is giving up less goals.

If you got those 2 choices (knowing they have been playing for the same team).

Goalie A: 2,01 GAA 0,910 SA
Goalie B: 3,01 GAA 0,945 SA

Who would you pick? Goalie A every single time.
There is only a small difference between the GAA of our two netminders (less than 0.10).

But I answered this already; if Goalie B is only playing every couple of games, who's to say he's not the better goalie? If that goalie never gets a chance to get hot, his stats may suffer.

For example; Halak's stats have went up considerably since he's been able to string together a solid amount of starts and gain some confidence.

Not to mention, if Goalie B has a better winning percentage than Goalie A.. aren't you going to go with Goalie B?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You guys are sitting there chirping about how much better Halak has been. You completely ignore Price's numbers from last season, before the injury and over the past month. Yes, he had a bad stretch after being hurt... that doesn't negate the fact that he's our best netminder and deserves the chance to get us there.
That's the thing that most people don't realize. Price doesn't have better numbers career-wise, than Halak. In reality, Halak has slightly better career numbers than Price.

HALAK
.914 sv%
2.80 gaa
0.566 win%

PRICE
.912 sv%
2.68 gaa
.547 win%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's been just as good (arguably better) than Halak lately, there's no reason to bench your young starter for a guy who's going to be a career backup. It makes zero sense.
Did you really just call Halak a "career backup"... ?


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04-08-2009, 02:44 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
There is only a small difference between the GAA of our two netminders (less than 0.10).

But I answered this already; if Goalie B is only playing every couple of games, who's to say he's not the better goalie? If that goalie never gets a chance to get hot, his stats may suffer.

For example; Halak's stats have went up considerably since he's been able to string together a solid amount of starts and gain some confidence.
If a goalie is playing every couple of games, most likely that goalie is also playing versus weaker teams thus inflating his stats even more.

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04-08-2009, 02:53 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by jnthomas View Post
If a goalie is playing every couple of games, most likely that goalie is also playing versus weaker teams thus inflating his stats even more.
Potentially, but it's not always the case.

Halak has suited up in 34 games this year with just 14 games against non-playoff teams. (41%)

Price, on the other hand, has suited up in 50 games and played 28 games against teams in non-playoff positions. (56%)

So, in reality, Price has played the weaker competition so far this season.

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