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Dynamo Moscow signs Omark and Harju

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Old
04-08-2009, 03:32 PM
  #276
oiLowe
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Thanks for pointing this out. As a Business Board mod I should have been more on top of this. It might be worth asking kdb and the experts there what their take on the current status is. I'll do this and if I get anything back will post it here.

In any case, it looks to me like the Oilers retain his NHL rights.
Good. People should really read before they get up in arms about this situation. His rights are clearly the most important factor as it relates to the Oilers.

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04-08-2009, 03:32 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Mike Krushelnyski View Post
The point is that with the exception of maybe Pesonen, though he's having a decent season in the AHL, all of those 'gambles' paid off and all of those players appear to be intergral parts to those teams moving forward.
How do you figure? Two of those guys aren't even on the active NHL rosters right now.

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04-08-2009, 03:32 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Terva View Post
And I totally understand that you guys, who never seen him play a single game, don´t acknowledge his performance over here as a merit. But obviously Brunnström got the maximum salary and he wasn´t even drafted.
Wha? Who's talking about Brunnstrom?

The fact we're talking about Omark so much makes it clear that we think his performance has some merit, but I think you'd rather convince yourself that all us Canadians are bad people who just want to be mean to Swedes. Or something.

I think maybe you're upset that not everyone has agreed with you about how much merit his SEL performance has had. You think it's lots. We think it's some.

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04-08-2009, 03:32 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
The pure fact that you just said he wouldn't accept a two way contract shows you don't know what your talking about. It has to be a two way contract, we wouldn't commit to the max AHL and NHL salary.

Again, if you are saying Omark is not going to be successful because Horcoff was successful you need to take a step back and realize Horcoff is an extremely good hockey player, that's why he is in the NHL. If he turned out to be as good as Horcoff, a completely different player you are comparing him to by the way, we would be laughing.
The fact that he 'doesn't want a two-way' means nothing for the actual contract he'll sign, but everything for the mindset he has coming over. This means he'll be upset in AHL, and if he thinks the Oilers are going to be sending him to the AHL, what makes you think we should have confidence in him? Think outside the box, I didn't mean it as literally as you want to interpret it to suit your argument.

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04-08-2009, 03:33 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by romelson View Post
I translated a couple of quotes from an interview with Omark/Harju
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportblade...icle4856941.ab

"It was an easy decision. Edmonton doesnt seem to believe in me."
-Omark

"Going there(Moscow) is challenging. I wasnt happy with what Edmonton offered, they haven't shown that they want me."
-Omark

"Edmonton has said that they have enough small players, that there's nothing wrong with me, but that Im small. That doesnt feel that nice to hear, so it's not just about the money. I want to be in the NHL, not in the AHL."
-Omark

"KHL is a better league than SEL, and this is one step on the way to NHL"
-Harju

"It felt right going to Russia. I've considered the pros and cons, and what finally made me make this decision, was the chance to play one more year along with Linus. I think they're surprised in Tampa, but I hope to one day get a chance in the NHL. I havent given up that dream."
-Harju
Ah yes, it appears the Oil braintrust are at it again. I seem to recall the last small prospect this team passed on was Zach Parise during the Great Bungle of 03.

One can only hope the little franchise that can't (score, win, make the playoffs) will still have a window of opportunity to get this guy under contract. To lose out on an elite skilled prospect with no return would be another botched management decision.

I realize expectations must be tempered with this kid. But if is just Katz's money at stake sign the kid and get him to North America. There must be some way to provision that if he doesn't make the NHL roster he can still be 'banished' to the Russian league. The kid has leverage and is rightfully using it.

Don't let history repeat itself.

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04-08-2009, 03:34 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by awesomo View Post
As far as i know, and read on this board. He HAD to take a 2 way, it wasn't about that. It was how the Oilers didn't believe in him because he is too small and all he has are tons of youtube videos. They guy was in the top scoring in the SEL, what more do they want?


How is it a waste? Omark was basically the Oilers free agent this year, it was like everyone trying to sign Brunnstrom last year. It was a low risk, high reward deal and they totally blew it.
Again, if he believes he's going to be buried in the AHL (ie, going on about how he doesn't want a two-way contract), that does not bode well for his confidence level internationally. If he were confident in his abilities, he wouldn't be apprehensive of a two-way, he'd play himself into an honourary one-way. I didn't mean it literally.

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04-08-2009, 03:34 PM
  #282
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Just a quick note after skimming most of the interviews with Omark that are on the 'net. Yes he says that he doesn't want to play in the AHL and that his aim is to play in the NHL. But, and this is where it gets interesting, he says, and this again is a direct quote, "They have to show me that they believe in me. I don't want to play in the AHL but if they show that they really believe in me but that I have to begin in the AHL then it's different and I will play there and fight hard (for a place on the team). He actually repeats again and again in this and other interviews that he wants the oilers to show that they believe in him and that he has a future with them.

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04-08-2009, 03:35 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by mjlee View Post
Just a quick note after skimming most of the interviews with Omark that are on the 'net. Yes he says that he doesn't want to play in the AHL and that his aim is to play in the NHL. But, and this is where it gets interesting, he says, and this again is a direct quote, "They have to show me that they believe in me. I don't want to play in the AHL but if they show that they really believe in me but that I have to begin in the AHL then it's different and I will play there and fight hard (for a place on the team). He actually repeats again and again in this and other interviews that he wants the oilers to show that they believe in him and that he has a future with them.
This just shows the Oilers handled this even worse than we all thought.

If he truly would have come over and money was not an issue and it all had to do with our lack of interested I am shocked at how horrible this situation was handled.

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04-08-2009, 03:35 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
If he's not willing to take a 2-way, that extra near million dollars goes a long way in the UFA market this offseason. It's not smart practice to throw a million dollars worth of cap space away.
-I don't think the 2 way was an issue, given that the Oilers had no choice but to offer him a 2 way as per the CBA, I'm sure that Omark's camp would've been aware of this.

-That extra million for the UFA market would only be worth talking about if this team could actually draw something more substantial than flies and derision from Upper Canada during the offseason. It was bad enough last summer, I can't even imagine how much more Edmonton will be viewed as the antimatter version of "Golly, that looks like a fun place to play!" now, after this year's combination of no playoffs and infinite levels of fishbowl drama.

Damn, I need a 'Midol' break.

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04-08-2009, 03:35 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
Again, if he believes he's going to be buried in the AHL (ie, going on about how he doesn't want a two-way contract), that does not bode well for his confidence level internationally. If he were confident in his abilities, he wouldn't be apprehensive of a two-way, he'd play himself into an honourary one-way. I didn't mean it literally.
Again, this has nothing to do with a two-way contract.

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04-08-2009, 03:37 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlee View Post
Just a quick note after skimming most of the interviews with Omark that are on the 'net. Yes he says that he doesn't want to play in the AHL and that his aim is to play in the NHL. But, and this is where it gets interesting, he says, and this again is a direct quote, "They have to show me that they believe in me. I don't want to play in the AHL but if they show that they really believe in me but that I have to begin in the AHL then it's different and I will play there and fight hard (for a place on the team). He actually repeats again and again in this and other interviews that he wants the oilers to show that they believe in him and that he has a future with them.
ehh, that's a cop-out on his part. Signing him is enough of a gesture and vote of confidence, isn't it? Beyond that the onus is on him to play his way onto the team. He's negotiating, is what he's doing, and making it seem like Edmonton missed out on signing him. If he were confident enough that he could play his way into the NHL, none of this would be an issue.

Bad news bears all around.

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04-08-2009, 03:38 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
Again, this has nothing to do with a two-way contract.
You don't understand. Please read again.

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Old
04-08-2009, 03:38 PM
  #288
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So do the Oilers retain his rights? That's all that really matters to me.

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04-08-2009, 03:39 PM
  #289
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for those people saying "well at least we retain his rights".... there is no garantee of that at all, and we haven't heard this from any official source yet .... also, we're not going to hold his rights forever, whos to say that we don't lose the rights 1 year after he signs in the KHL

this is *all* speculation until we hear from an official source

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04-08-2009, 03:40 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Thanks for pointing this out. As a Business Board mod I should have been more on top of this. It might be worth asking kdb and the experts there what their take on the current status is. I'll do this and if I get anything back will post it here.

In any case, it looks to me like the Oilers retain his NHL rights.

Thanks for clarifying this, this makes things a little easier to swallow.

Again, he should have to prove himself just like any other player coming into camp and earn his roster spot, in the KHL he just gets to play, end of story. There is no right answer here, he is doing this to make money, I don't blame him, but if the Oilers were to blindly give him what he wants and he doesn't pan out then what? he turns into another Mikinov????? BTW do we still own his rights? Under this defected player status we should right?

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04-08-2009, 03:40 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
Again, if he believes he's going to be buried in the AHL (ie, going on about how he doesn't want a two-way contract), that does not bode well for his confidence level internationally. If he were confident in his abilities, he wouldn't be apprehensive of a two-way, he'd play himself into an honourary one-way. I didn't mean it literally.
The Oilers probably told him to work his way up from the AHL instead of going straight to the club. Why wouldn't they just promise him a spot? And if he sucks send him down then call him back up. Much like Dallas and Brunstrom? Its not a huge gamble, i mean they sit Pouliot and his $825,000 for most of the season...

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04-08-2009, 03:41 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by awesomo View Post
The Oilers probably told him to work his way up from the AHL instead of going straight to the club. Why wouldn't they just promise him a spot? And if he sucks send him down then call him back up. Much like Dallas and Brunstrom? Its not a huge gamble, i mean they sit Pouliot and his $825,000 for most of the season...
That's how teams get a bad reputation for free agents... We wouldn't want that in Edmonton now would we?

Pouliot is different, we raised him as our own and turned out to be terrible. Personally I don't think he has much more time on this club, do you?

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04-08-2009, 03:45 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
You have 3 free agent signings and a 2nd rounder on your list.

The situations are not comparable.
Actually the situations are comparable. The arguement was that it would be insanity to give the rookie max salary to a player that has yet to play the North American game and on a smaller surface. I just pointed out four examples where teams actually did just that. It's a gamble for sure... for every Brunnstrom or Leino that you find, there's a Dopita hiding around the corner but sometimes you just have to gamble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
How do you figure? Two of those guys aren't even on the active NHL rosters right now.
Pesonen, as I already pointed out, you have an arguement against, but obviously you haven't been following Leino or been around the Wings board at all if you don't think that he's in the Wings' long-term plans.

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04-08-2009, 03:45 PM
  #294
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Thanks for clarifying this, this makes things a little easier to swallow.

Again, he should have to prove himself just like any other player coming into camp and earn his roster spot, in the KHL he just gets to play, end of story. There is no right answer here, he is doing this to make money, I don't blame him, but if the Oilers were to blindly give him what he wants and he doesn't pan out then what? he turns into another Mikinov????? BTW do we still own his rights? Under this defected player status we should right?
Just to be clear, I have not confirmed anything yet. The credit for finding the potential key clearly goes to Major4Boarding.

People like kdb and the crew on the Business Board follow this stuff like hawks. If they can't help then I am not sure who will be able to.

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04-08-2009, 03:47 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
he wouldn't become a UFA at some point? i find it hard to believe that we would just hold his rights *forever*
That's how defected status worked under the old CBA. No reason to think it would be any different now.

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04-08-2009, 03:55 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
You don't understand. Please read again.
If you argument is that since Omark doesn't think he can win a spot in camp we shouldn't bother with him is you argument I have nothing left to discuss with you.

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04-08-2009, 03:57 PM
  #297
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for those people saying "well at least we retain his rights".... there is no garantee of that at all, and we haven't heard this from any official source yet .... also, we're not going to hold his rights forever, whos to say that we don't lose the rights 1 year after he signs in the KHL

this is *all* speculation until we hear from an official source
You are correct that nothing has been confirmed. But it is clear from the cba that if Omark is classified under defector status then he would remain Oilers property until at least a) there is a new cba or b) there is a new IIHF transfer agreement.

The issue here is whether he has defector status. It does seem clear that the NHL's position would support this assumption and that this position was upheld by an arbitrator.

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04-08-2009, 03:57 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
You are correct that nothing has been confirmed. But it is clear from the cba that if Omark is classified under defector status then he would remain Oilers property until at least a) there is a new cba or b) there is a new IIHF transfer agreement.

The issue here is whether he has defector status. It does seem clear that the NHL's position would support this assumption and that this position was upheld by an arbitrator.
If the Oilers do indeed maintain his rights then this is much ado about nothing.

If we lost his rights over something silly like this, it is a massive failing of the management.

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04-08-2009, 04:02 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
If the Oilers do indeed maintain his rights then this is much ado about nothing.

If we lost his rights over something silly like this, it is a massive failing of the management.
yea its really dependant... if he plays in the KHL but is our prospect then whatever, development.

If we lose him... once again fail

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04-08-2009, 04:04 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
If the Oilers do indeed maintain his rights then this is much ado about nothing.

If we lost his rights over something silly like this, it is a massive failing of the management.
If they do retain his rights it could still go badly for the team. There have been unsubstantiated comments that Omark felt he was not being taken seriously by the Oilers. It is far to early to declare this the case, but as a team that has to work hard to sign FA's etc, this is not a great message to have out there.

That said there is always two sides to every story so we still need to see how this plays out.

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