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Dynamo Moscow signs Omark and Harju

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Old
04-08-2009, 05:06 PM
  #301
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Just to be clear, I have not confirmed anything yet. The credit for finding the potential key clearly goes to Major4Boarding.

People like kdb and the crew on the Business Board follow this stuff like hawks. If they can't help then I am not sure who will be able to.
By reading those articles it sure sounds like the Defected Player status would be in place especially in this artcile...http://sportsking.stats.com/nhl/stor...f=hea&tm=&src=

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The union's loss of the grievance gives teams permanent rights to these European players as long as there is a lack of an IIHF transfer agreement between the NHL and international hockey federations. The NHLPA is trying to avoid reverting to a time when the NHL controlled the rights of European players forever.
At least until either the NHLPA wins its grievance or a transfer agreement is put in place.

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04-08-2009, 05:07 PM
  #302
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Can't believe that money was really the issue here - how much of a difference could there between the Oilers offer and the max? A couple of hundred thou to show Oilers fans that the club was seriously and aggressively taking steps to improve would be cheap at twice the price considering the current unrest with the team's situation.

The good news is that we'll all get a good look at Omark at the World Championships (April 24 - May 10 in Switzerland). If Omark is at all credible, though, be prepared for the waves of laughter and derision from the hockey world. "Can you believe that the Oilers, I mean the Oilers of all teams, tried to play hardball with this kid and pushed him to the KHL?" etc., etc. ad nauseum. In that way, I hope he's just another epic fail.

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04-08-2009, 05:13 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Mike Krushelnyski View Post
Actually the situations are comparable. The arguement was that it would be insanity to give the rookie max salary to a player that has yet to play the North American game and on a smaller surface.
The argument isn't about paying a guy that has yet to play in NA. The argument is about paying the max to a 4th round draft pick.

Particularily if the Oilers still end up with his NHL rights when all is said and done, that argument becomes even stronger.

The guys you listed were able to shop themselves to highest bidder (rookie max) and then choose a team based on those that made the offer. The price is naturally going to be inflated, just like veteran UFA's get more than they are usually worth.

Can you come up with an example of a 4th rounder that was offered the max? Honest question, if there are examples out there then obviously I would have to reconsider my stance.

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04-08-2009, 05:15 PM
  #304
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With the Oilers he might get two years of AHL play with crappy pay and bad living conditions and he knows he's good enough for the league, and in the KHL he'll get to play with his best friend and make tons of money.

Good enough for the NHL? If Omark knew he was good enough for the NHL, he wouldn't be scared of ending up in the AHL.

There is zero doubt that it's Omark's self doubt and fear that drove him to cash in on the KHL rather than trying to go all the way and make the NHL. Confident players don't bail out and take the easy, low risk, immediate reward at the expense of the long term.

I'm glad the Oilers stood their ground and didn't do anything unreasonable to get the little guy. I've seen his highlight reels, his game would never translate in the NHL.

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04-08-2009, 05:17 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by antidote View Post
Can't believe that money was really the issue here - how much of a difference could there between the Oilers offer and the max? A couple of hundred thou to show Oilers fans that the club was seriously and aggressively taking steps to improve would be cheap at twice the price considering the current unrest with the team's situation.

The good news is that we'll all get a good look at Omark at the World Championships (April 24 - May 10 in Switzerland). If Omark is at all credible, though, be prepared for the waves of laughter and derision from the hockey world. "Can you believe that the Oilers, I mean the Oilers of all teams, tried to play hardball with this kid and pushed him to the KHL?" etc., etc. ad nauseum. In that way, I hope he's just another epic fail.
I hope he lights it up, leads the tournament in scoring and exposes this organizatinon for the joke it is.

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04-08-2009, 05:22 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Good enough for the NHL? If Omark knew he was good enough for the NHL, he wouldn't be scared of ending up in the AHL.

There is zero doubt that it's Omark's self doubt and fear that drove him to cash in on the KHL rather than trying to go all the way and make the NHL. Confident players don't bail out and take the easy, low risk, immediate reward at the expense of the long term.

I'm glad the Oilers stood their ground and didn't do anything unreasonable to get the little guy. I've seen his highlight reels, his game would never translate in the NHL.
LOL. Aren't you bitter.

As for what he knew, he was basically told that he is too small. Not very encouraging thing.

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04-08-2009, 05:22 PM
  #307
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Sounds like the Oilers didn't offer him the max.

Probably should have as the difference in cap hit between what they offered and what the max would have been is worth the risk on a guy like Omark imo. Especially if they had shown "belief" in him and convinced him to develop his game in the AHL if it needed developing.

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04-08-2009, 05:23 PM
  #308
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If you argument is that since Omark doesn't think he can win a spot in camp we shouldn't bother with him is you argument I have nothing left to discuss with you.
Let me sum this up for you.

The Oilers sign him on a 2-way entry level, expecting he'll be an NHL player, and telling Omark that they expect him to be (many interviews with Omark indicate this is the only way he signs here)

The Oilers hold a big press conference, shake hands, smile and plaster his youtube clips all over the place.

Omark's 875k is spent now, on an NHL roster spot. This money cannot be spent elsewhere, whether it literally can be or not is meaningless, it's spent on expectations.

Now, we have Omark expecting to be an NHL player and the Oilers expecting a top 6 forward. Omark has already shown that he believes he will be buried in the AHL - this speaks to his confidence level at the NHL level. If Omark under-performs and has to be sent down, Oilers get a rep for mishandling promising young prospects (something we are unfortunately already quite familiar with). I don't need to tell you why this is bad, do I? Not only this, but the organization has another Schremp, or maybe at best, a Nilsson on their hands. Bad publicity and bad for morale.

Now, if Omark pans out, great, hooray for the good guys, they finally did something right, right? Sure, but you need to think of the negatives of signing a player under these circumstances. Had Omark handled this differently and come over willing to play his way onto the team instead of demanding unearned respect and demanding that we treat him as if he were NHL ready, the entire dynamic changes.

The risk is too high, and it would be a bandaid signing for the end of this horrible season. Changes need to be a little more rational than following the hype machine, I'm sorry.

I know it's a little more thinking than throwing "**** KLowe, **** Tambellini, and **** the way the Oilers do business" labels on everything, but just try it.

edit -

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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Good enough for the NHL? If Omark knew he was good enough for the NHL, he wouldn't be scared of ending up in the AHL.

There is zero doubt that it's Omark's self doubt and fear that drove him to cash in on the KHL rather than trying to go all the way and make the NHL. Confident players don't bail out and take the easy, low risk, immediate reward at the expense of the long term.

I'm glad the Oilers stood their ground and didn't do anything unreasonable to get the little guy. I've seen his highlight reels, his game would never translate in the NHL.
Exactly, well said and I'm glad someone else agrees. I'd also like to add that I'm as disappointed as any that it had to end this way with him, but... it had to end this way

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04-08-2009, 05:28 PM
  #309
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LOL. Aren't you bitter.

As for what he knew, he was basically told that he is too small. Not very encouraging thing.
No, I'm quite happy and owe Omark a thanks. The fans here love to go bat **** crazy about every little prospect we have somewhere who gets a shoot out goal on youtube. I just don't suffer from the same delusions.

When a small player runs away from a team with nearly every top 6 forward below 6 feet tall, you know he has confidence issues. All the Oilers would have to say is "look at Gagner, that could be you... but we're not going to guarentee you an NHL spot, you have to earn it like everyone else".

The weak run away and the strong take on the challenge. What we basically know now, in hindsight, is that Omark doesn't think Omark will make it in the NHL.


Last edited by stratedge: 04-08-2009 at 05:33 PM.
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04-08-2009, 05:37 PM
  #310
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it looks like we retain his rights so this is no big loss. ALso, the contract Omark was after wasn't 850,000$, it was closer to 2 mill including bonuses. Those bonuses count against the cap even if he didn't reach them. Huge risk.

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04-08-2009, 05:42 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by JBell84 View Post
Let me sum this up for you.

The Oilers sign him on a 2-way entry level, expecting he'll be an NHL player, and telling Omark that they expect him to be (many interviews with Omark indicate this is the only way he signs here)

The Oilers hold a big press conference, shake hands, smile and plaster his youtube clips all over the place.

Omark's 875k is spent now, on an NHL roster spot. This money cannot be spent elsewhere, whether it literally can be or not is meaningless, it's spent on expectations.

Now, we have Omark expecting to be an NHL player and the Oilers expecting a top 6 forward. Omark has already shown that he believes he will be buried in the AHL - this speaks to his confidence level at the NHL level. If Omark under-performs and has to be sent down, Oilers get a rep for mishandling promising young prospects (something we are unfortunately already quite familiar with). I don't need to tell you why this is bad, do I? Not only this, but the organization has another Schremp, or maybe at best, a Nilsson on their hands. Bad publicity and bad for morale.

Now, if Omark pans out, great, hooray for the good guys, they finally did something right, right? Sure, but you need to think of the negatives of signing a player under these circumstances. Had Omark handled this differently and come over willing to play his way onto the team instead of demanding unearned respect and demanding that we treat him as if he were NHL ready, the entire dynamic changes.

The risk is too high, and it would be a bandaid signing for the end of this horrible season. Changes need to be a little more rational than following the hype machine, I'm sorry.

I know it's a little more thinking than throwing "**** KLowe, **** Tambellini, and **** the way the Oilers do business" labels on everything, but just try it.

edit -



Exactly, well said and I'm glad someone else agrees. I'd also like to add that I'm as disappointed as any that it had to end this way with him, but... it had to end this way
The Oilers do not have to make a big deal out of the signing, or say he is going to produce. We can sign him quietly, simply say, he has a ton of potential and will be in camp to compete for a roster spot publicly.

The reason Omark think he might end up in the AHL is because of the vibe he obviously got from the Oilers, like them saying they have too many small forwards already.

I see your view, but none the less do not believe it is even close to a legitimate reason not to sign him.

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04-08-2009, 05:44 PM
  #312
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it looks like we retain his rights so this is no big loss. ALso, the contract Omark was after wasn't 850,000$, it was closer to 2 mill including bonuses. Those bonuses count against the cap even if he didn't reach them. Huge risk.
Not only no big loss, but actually a big plus in reducing that risk. Because when he goes to the KHL, he either he does well or he doesn't.

If he doesn't, we never spent a penny, and who cares. No loss.

If he does well, that raises confidence in his ability to play in the NHL, and we still have him forced into a rookie contract if he wants into the NHL.

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04-08-2009, 05:46 PM
  #313
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Oilers have enough SMUFS!!!

Should be interesting to see how many think the oilers should have broken the bank for the guy

I don't think the oilers should have and did the right thing. There is gureentee that he could adapt to the nhl style

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04-08-2009, 05:47 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
The Oilers do not have to make a big deal out of the signing, or say he is going to produce. We can sign him quietly, simply say, he has a ton of potential and will be in camp to compete for a roster spot publicly.

The reason Omark think he might end up in the AHL is because of the vibe he obviously got from the Oilers, like them saying they have too many small forwards already.

I see your view, but none the less do not believe it is even close to a legitimate reason not to sign him.
Whether or not the Oilers make a big deal out of signing him or not, it will be a big deal. They showed his shootout goal on HNIC for crying out loud, you don't think people are going to be watching this kid?

Reference stratedge's responses for an answer to rest, but in a nutshell... if the Oilers think Omark might end up in the AHL, and Omark runs away because of that, don't you think they might be on to something? I know if I were an NHL caliber player, and I knew it, I wouldn't let something like a little doubt stand in the way of my NHL career. The Oilers aren't being unreasonable in doubting Omark's ability, and his unwillingness to prove himself further speaks to this.

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04-08-2009, 05:49 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Good enough for the NHL? If Omark knew he was good enough for the NHL, he wouldn't be scared of ending up in the AHL.

There is zero doubt that it's Omark's self doubt and fear that drove him to cash in on the KHL rather than trying to go all the way and make the NHL. Confident players don't bail out and take the easy, low risk, immediate reward at the expense of the long term.

I'm glad the Oilers stood their ground and didn't do anything unreasonable to get the little guy. I've seen his highlight reels, his game would never translate in the NHL.
Another way of looking at this:

He's been allegedly told by Oiler management they have alot of small, 'skilled' forwards. Not exactly a warm and fuzzy ringing endorsement. Why risk being buried or lost in an inferior league on a team that doesn't sound that committed or fully vested in your potential?

He has been offered more money, tax free from a competitor. One that has no such restrictions as cap hits and drags on salary for players (ie entry level contracts). How many of us wouldn't take the cash? Besides which if he takes this short term approach, succeeds even more against higher quality competition, his market value becomes even higher - to a marginal NHL team berift of scoring and skill or worst case scenario to Oiler fans, as an UFA able to call his own shots with 30 prospective bidders.

The era of blind loyalty and subservience is over. Players like Omark have options and will rightfully exploit them to their best advantage. I don't view this at all to be a sense of self doubt. He shows absolutely no sense doubt or lack of confidence where it matters - on the ice. To the tune of ZZ Top: "He's got leverage ... and he knows how to use it."

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04-08-2009, 05:57 PM
  #316
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Another way of looking at this:

He's been allegedly told by Oiler management they have alot of small, 'skilled' forwards. Not exactly a warm and fuzzy ringing endorsement. Why risk being buried or lost in an inferior league on a team that doesn't sound that committed or fully vested in your potential?

He has been offered more money, tax free from a competitor. One that has no such restrictions as cap hits and drags on salary for players (ie entry level contracts). How many of us wouldn't take the cash? Besides which if he takes this short term approach, succeeds even more against higher quality competition, his market value becomes even higher - to a marginal NHL team berift of scoring and skill or worst case scenario to Oiler fans, as an UFA able to call his own shots with 30 prospective bidders.

The era of blind loyalty and subservience is over. Players like Omark have options and will rightfully exploit them to their best advantage. I don't view this at all to be a sense of self doubt. He shows absolutely no sense doubt or lack of confidence where it matters - on the ice.
Reasonable, I'm very interested to see how he handles himself in the KHL and beyond. Right now I think both sides are acting in their best interest, it just doesn't seem meant to be this year.

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04-08-2009, 06:03 PM
  #317
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So what,he can make fancy moves against players in the SEL way different story on the NHL and the Oilers need bigger players not midgets and smurfs.

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04-08-2009, 06:07 PM
  #318
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Reasonable, I'm very interested to see how he handles himself in the KHL and beyond. Right now I think both sides are acting in their best interest, it just doesn't seem meant to be this year.
One of those two parties have a much greater need of a 'win.' That same one has made numerous promises about grandiose success and aspirations and failed to deliver yet again. The other party involved has simply delivered results and earned the interest and payday of more than one suitor.

There's always hope in Muddville. Maybe next year!

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04-08-2009, 06:10 PM
  #319
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people have to remember to keep one eye on total contract and sal cap issues

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04-08-2009, 06:12 PM
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One of those two parties have a much greater need of a 'win.' That same one has made numerous promises about grandiose success and aspirations and failed to deliver yet again. The other party involved has simply delivered results and earned the interest and payday of more than one suitor.

There's always hope in Muddville. Maybe next year!
Exactly why said party needs to calm down and give honest thought to what kind of direction they need to take before they start handing money out

The body is still warm, at least give the coroner some time to assess cause of death

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04-08-2009, 06:12 PM
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No, I'm quite happy and owe Omark a thanks. The fans here love to go bat **** crazy about every little prospect we have somewhere who gets a shoot out goal on youtube. I just don't suffer from the same delusions.

When a small player runs away from a team with nearly every top 6 forward below 6 feet tall, you know he has confidence issues. All the Oilers would have to say is "look at Gagner, that could be you... but we're not going to guarentee you an NHL spot, you have to earn it like everyone else".

The weak run away and the strong take on the challenge. What we basically know now, in hindsight, is that Omark doesn't think Omark will make it in the NHL.
So you're happy that a prospects who scored over PPG in SEL(which is rare) will not play for Oilers and will not even try it? And based on what you're happy? Based on he's not tough enough philosophy? LOL. And don't compare him to Gagner who is a Golden boy because he is ¹6 overall draft choice. Omark will need to be 2 times as good as Gagner to play in NHL. And when he is told he is too small, that smells AHL no matter what will he do.

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04-08-2009, 06:23 PM
  #322
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Again, if he believes he's going to be buried in the AHL (ie, going on about how he doesn't want a two-way contract), that does not bode well for his confidence level internationally. If he were confident in his abilities, he wouldn't be apprehensive of a two-way, he'd play himself into an honourary one-way. I didn't mean it literally.
As a prospect, once you sign with an organization certain aspects of your career are no longer in your control.

Do you get the best linemates? Do you get pp time? Do you get decent icetime?

If a team really wants your services and they're willing to pay big bucks for it that's a sign that you'll get the icetime and the linemates that you're looking for.

If a team offers you a salary that's very low compared to the rest of the players that's a good sign that you'll be getting second or third rate linemates and very little pp time.

So, not only is Russia a better fit for him financially, the odds that he's going to get every chance to succeed there are far greater.

Who could blame a young fwd prospect for not wanting to start off his career as an ahl'er in the Oilers' organization? Do you know anything about this team?

Omark just made the right decision.

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04-08-2009, 06:27 PM
  #323
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Exactly why said party needs to calm down and give honest thought to what kind of direction they need to take before they start handing money out

The body is still warm, at least give the coroner some time to assess cause of death
I would hope the Coroner has been doing some self assessment on the brain dead, life supported lifeless and heartless patient for some time. The patient has been flatlined for most of this season.

Adding quality prospects helps to provide choices and flexibility in moving this team's direction. Timing is not ideal but it is hard to imagine this team is better today without Omark in the fold. I'm in favor of a reasoned, strategic approach to evaluate this team. However I am not prepared to wait through any more inaction or hyperbole about this team's management trying to do instead of doing. I want to 'Expect the Unexpected' and for me right now is seeking real, meaningful action to make this perennial non playoff tire spinning corpse into a playoff team.

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04-08-2009, 06:29 PM
  #324
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Omark's 875k is spent now, on an NHL roster spot. This money cannot be spent elsewhere, whether it literally can be or not is meaningless, it's spent on expectations.
How is that different for any other draftee not named Crosby, Ovechkin and a handful of others? When Ottawa signed Daigle, wasn't that simply money spent on expectations? How is the rookie max spent on Eberle nothing more than expectations? Any signing, any draftee involves an amount of risk. Was the risk of signing Omark too great? I don't think so. At the end of the day it was a choice of the organization. If you are ready to applaud that choice, specially if Omark's game turns out is indeed not suitable for NHL, then you also should also be open to harshly criticize it if Omark turns out into next Zetterberg.

As well, I find it irrelevant whether he was drafted in the first round or fourth. Hypothetically, if he was drafted in the first round and had a similar (or maybe weaker) career after the draft how would he be suddenly entitled to the league max? On ice performance alone should count.

To the other point, that he doesn't have NA experience, there are many other players that played in SEL and jumped directly to NHL: Sedins and Alfredsson come to mind.

It looks like the only reason the Oilers didn't want to give him the max was not to create some sort of (dangerous in their minds) precedent.

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04-08-2009, 06:31 PM
  #325
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Sure sounds to me from the translated interviews with the kid that he would love to play in the NHL, just not for a team that tells him they think he's too small (so why draft him in the first place?). Nice sell job, Lowe.

Too many under 6-footers on the roster? Unload some of them then and make room for the performers.

Kid noticed how Hemmer was exploited here, saw all the favoritism that goes into rewarding undeserving scrubs while your only marquee player is treated like laundry.

Signed over there so he can go back in the draft - as far away from this debacle of a club as possible. Another black eye for a once storied franchise that is fading fast.

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