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Dynamo Moscow signs Omark and Harju

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Old
04-08-2009, 09:38 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
it's just human nature to say something you didn't get was not that good in the first place. OTHO, if you had gotten it then you would be bragging all over the place. Fans tend to rationalize in this manner.
Honestly can you say without question this kid is way better than Robert Nilsson?

Because I do think if you put Robert Nilsson in the SEL he would make a lot of defenders and goalies there look stupid too and put up similar point totals.

If Omark was 6'2 ... then yeah I probably would be as choked as some people are here ... but 5'9 and 168 pounds ... jeebus this kid would get flattened like a pancake if he had to play this weekend against Robyn Regehr.

If you're saying our management is a bunch of idiots ... hey you're preaching the to the choir here, I just don't see what the huge deal is here.

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04-08-2009, 09:44 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Honestly can you say without question this kid is way better than Robert Nilsson?

Because I do think if you put Robert Nilsson in the SEL he would make a lot of defenders and goalies there look stupid too and put up similar point totals.

If Omark was 6'2 ... then yeah I probably would be as choked as some people are here ... but 5'9 and 168 pounds ... jeebus this kid would get flattened like a pancake if he had to play this weekend against Robyn Regehr.

If you're saying our management is a bunch of idiots ... hey you're preaching the to the choir here, I just don't see what the huge deal is here.
Agreed.

Oiler fans needed a straw to clutch and now it's been snatched away.

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04-08-2009, 09:58 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
I don't know how you come to that conclusion, Omark (unlike Radulov, for example) DOES NOT HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE OILERS. Also, the KHL contract techinically starts with the KHL hockey season, which is in Sept I believe (?), so he will be RELEASED from the Oilers BEFORE he goes to the KHL. He doesn't have an "out" clause till next year, so it's unlikely any NHL willl waste a pick on him when they only need to wait for next season and offer a UFA contract to him/draft him next draft (not sure what will be his status then).

Omark has no reason whatsoever to sign with the Oilers now.
from the Articles...

Quote:
The league's victory in that grievance as awarded by arbiter Richard Bloch, essentially gives teams the rights to these players into perpetuity for as long as there is no IIHF transfer agreement between the NHL and international hockey federations.
Quote:
The union's loss of the grievance gives teams permanent rights to these European players as long as there is a lack of an IIHF transfer agreement between the NHL and international hockey federations. The NHLPA is trying to avoid reverting to a time when the NHL controlled the rights of European players forever.
If players had a contract they would not or should not be playing for the SEL or the KHL. Thus this would not be an issue. It is about the rights of the players that the teams hold. The Oilers hold Omarks rights, and still should under the agreements or lack thereof.

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04-08-2009, 10:06 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by MerryJ99 View Post
from the Articles...





If players had a contract they would not or should not be playing for the SEL or the KHL. Thus this would not be an issue. It is about the rights of the players that the teams hold. The Oilers hold Omarks rights, and still should under the agreements or lack thereof.
Damn, you could be right.

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Drafted Players. Reserve List - Exclusive Rights
Article 8.6. "(a) Commencing with the 2005 Entry Draft, a Player selected by a Club in the Entry Draft shall be registered on the Reserve List of the selecting Club as an Unsigned Draft Choice."
(i) ...such registration shall establish for such selecting Club the exclusive right of negotiation for the services of each Player selected and registered as against all other Clubs, up to and including June 1 of the next calendar year following the date of his selection.
(ii) Subject to (iii) below and (b) and (c) below; if on or before June 1 of the calendar year next succeeding the Entry Draft, the claiming Club makes a Bona Fide Offer (as defined below) to its claimed Player of an SPC, the Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation for the services of such Player up to and including the second June 1 following the date of his selection.
(iii) Notwithstanding anything set forth in subsections (i) or (ii) above, if a Player is drafted for the first time at age 20 and re-enters the Entry Draft at age 22, the Club that selects him as a re-entry may retain the exclusive negotiating rights to the Player for only one (1) year and may not acquire exclusive negotiating rights to the Player for a second year by extending a Bona Fide Offer, provided, however, this provision shall not apply to a Player drafted from a club outside North America whose rights, under all circumstances, shall continue to be governed by Sect. 8.6(a)(ii)...."
Can any lawyer/CBA vulgarize all this stupid jargon bs for us? Which article prevails over which?

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04-08-2009, 10:08 PM
  #430
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I would be surprised if Omark makes the NHL impression many of you are hoping for.

Have any of you seen the STATS of the leading leaders of the SEL?
You guys are looking at Pavel Brendl and a nearing 40 Mikael Renberg leading the league in scoring.

It's not much of a league. In fact I don't know many notable NHLers that came from the SEL as a veteran (That said, it's a fine place for amateur scouting).

If you can prove me wrong,I'll gladly take it all back.

Name me all of the over-21 year old established SEL players who went on to become stars in the NHL. please provide me with names n stats.


:/ Don't think there are any. And I doubt Omark is any kind of exception.

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04-08-2009, 10:10 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Damn, you could be right.



Can any lawyer/CBA vulgarize all this stupid jargon bs for us? Which article prevails over which?
It doesn't matter.

The Cavalry isn't coming.

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04-08-2009, 10:17 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Damn, you could be right.



Can any lawyer/CBA vulgarize all this stupid jargon bs for us? Which article prevails over which?
from the BOH Board

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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Right now he's Oiler's property classified as a Defected player.


The NHLPA lost their formal grievance with the NHL back in November to stop the NHL from reinstating the Defected status rules--the independent arbitrator both sides agreed to ruled in the NHL's favor.

Afterward the NHLPA filed a separate complaint with the NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) claiming unfair labor practices. Based on past history it's doubtful anything will come of this, but never say never. If something did happen it's hard to predict exactly what the consequences would be.

On a related note, there's also the potential that a new IIHF/NHL transfer agreement could be negotiated. If so there would be some transition rules for how long teams had to get Defected players signed before losing their rights.


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04-08-2009, 10:28 PM
  #433
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cant wait for some...


... in the KHL.

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04-08-2009, 10:52 PM
  #434
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excellent, thats what i was hoping.. so in two years, we'll see how he is doing.

Edit: how long is this contract, for some reason i figured it was two but now cannot find where i read it.
Then I really don't see this as a negative.

As I said in the other thread I had concerns about his size especially on our roster and playing in the KHL certainly is like a year of development in the AHL.

Wasn't it an one year contract though?


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 04-08-2009 at 10:59 PM. Reason: KHL not SEL
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04-08-2009, 10:56 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Then I really don't see this as a negative.

As I said in the other thread I had concerns about his size especially on our roster and playing in the SEL certainly is like a year of development in the AHL.

Wasn't it an one year contract though?
2 years. But after first year it has an exit clause

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04-08-2009, 11:07 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Name me all of the over-21 year old established SEL players who went on to become stars in the NHL. please provide me with names n stats.
Currently playing in the NHL; Nicklas Lidström (21), Henrik Lundqvist (23), Daniel Alfredsson (22), Henrik Zetterberg (22), Mattias Öhlund (21), Johan Franzén (25), Tomas Holmström (23), Kristian Huselius (22), Samuel Påhlsson (22), P.J. Axelsson (22), Niklas Kronwall (22), Tobias Enström (22), Johnny Oduya (24).

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04-08-2009, 11:26 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by MerryJ99 View Post
from the BOH Board
Hey, thanks for the info, that's better than all the bad news lately. All I will say to Omark is:


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04-09-2009, 12:12 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Damn, you could be right.



Can any lawyer/CBA vulgarize all this stupid jargon bs for us? Which article prevails over which?
8.6 is part of the New CBA, while there was a Transfer Agreement with the IIHF. What is says is teams have up to 2 yrs to sign Reserve List (unsigned draft picks) and spells how it is done so. This provision was in accordance with the then existing TA with the IIHF. But because the agreement has since lapsed, the League envoked "Defected Status", or essentially went to the old CBA provisions which meant indefinate holding of rights.

That's why (I'm assuming) MerryJ99 posted that portion for you, because the NHLPA filed a grievance over going back to the old provisions and lost, appeal pending of course. But that appeal barely holds any water, because Ted Saskin signed a letter, while still with the NHLPA, acknowledging the switch back to the old provisions should the new Transfer Agreement with the IIHF fall through which they (League) were preparing to shore up as the new CBA was being ratified.

Saskin failed to tell the PA of the reversal before he was ousted. The new TA did get done, but in 2007 there was a demand for it to be reopened... and last year the Czech teams balked at an extension to expand or redo the deal, which blew the whole thing up.

Hope this helps shed further light on the whole thing

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04-09-2009, 12:23 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by AkageNoKeri View Post
"full-of-themselves primadonnas"

You don't know Omark and you probably haven't seen him play. He's the opposite of a money-grubbing primadonna. He knows his value and he's still young. With the Oilers he might get two years of AHL play with crappy pay and bad living conditions and he knows he's good enough for the league, and in the KHL he'll get to play with his best friend and make tons of money. The NHL is still there in a couple of years when he's done in Russia and he might even play for the Oilers then.

"I think he took the short-term KHL money and will be looking for a bigger payday as an UFA later."

He sure did. There are more options for European players these days. That doesn't make them primadonnas though.
Hehe what can i say, this post is enough. Sour Oilersfans admitted or not should be cool, there are other talent that might want to play AHL hockey. I understand Omark, He is better than that. AHL is ok, but he is more than ok. Oilers did this the way they thouht were the best, but im not that sure.
He is not a primadonna Huge f.ing LOL at that! Someone posted here that he cant do nothing against a NHLdman at 5.9. LOL. just LOL and iam at work rolling on the floor almost. Have a good one.

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04-09-2009, 12:34 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
I would be surprised if Omark makes the NHL impression many of you are hoping for.

Have any of you seen the STATS of the leading leaders of the SEL?
You guys are looking at Pavel Brendl and a nearing 40 Mikael Renberg leading the league in scoring.

It's not much of a league. In fact I don't know many notable NHLers that came from the SEL as a veteran (That said, it's a fine place for amateur scouting).

If you can prove me wrong,I'll gladly take it all back.

Name me all of the over-21 year old established SEL players who went on to become stars in the NHL. please provide me with names n stats.


:/ Don't think there are any. And I doubt Omark is any kind of exception.
LOL again. But also agreed. SEL is not the best league, nearly 3rd after KHL.
SEL want to keep ticket price low, and hockey aint the biggest sport in Sweden so they cannot afford the best sign players, the best refs and so on, but it still a very competative and really good league.
And the best scoutingzone the scouts have.

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04-09-2009, 12:38 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Krm500 View Post
Currently playing in the NHL; Nicklas Lidström (21), Henrik Lundqvist (23), Daniel Alfredsson (22), Henrik Zetterberg (22), Mattias Öhlund (21), Johan Franzén (25), Tomas Holmström (23), Kristian Huselius (22), Samuel Påhlsson (22), P.J. Axelsson (22), Niklas Kronwall (22), Tobias Enström (22), Johnny Oduya (24).
Wow, I take it back.




Now I'm just hoping my hunch is correct, and that Omark isn't nearly as good as people on these boards were hoping.

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04-09-2009, 12:42 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Wow, I take it back.




Now I'm just hoping my hunch is correct, and that Omark isn't nearly as good as people on these boards were hoping.
I thought you were just being sarcastic. Omark is good and the Oilers screwed up.

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04-09-2009, 12:44 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by MAscis View Post
Hehe what can i say, this post is enough. Sour Oilersfans admitted or not should be cool, there are other talent that might want to play AHL hockey. I understand Omark, He is better than that. AHL is ok, but he is more than ok. Oilers did this the way they thouht were the best, but im not that sure.
He is not a primadonna Huge f.ing LOL at that! Someone posted here that he cant do nothing against a NHLdman at 5.9. LOL. just LOL and iam at work rolling on the floor almost. Have a good one.


Tell us, oh great one, with your crystal ball, when Omark comes to the NHL, how many points will he have?

Jesus the guy's small, we've seen what small forwards in the Top-6 can and cannot do, we have a whole line of them.

He's 5'9'' and 168 pounds, or 69 inches.

That puts him in a group(albeit a large group, a very large group) of players, who are the 4th shortest in the NHL.

All players who are 5'9'' and have put up points in the NHL: (Lets say 30 is the cut off)

Martin St. Louis
Derek Roy
Cammalleri
Sullivan(He's at 29 in 39 gms)
Samsonov
Gionta

Basically 29% of all forwards 5'9'' or shorter, this season have scored more than 30 points. So yes, it is a legitimate concern.

Not only that, lets see some other players in that scoring list. Hlinka is 4th in that league scoring, and he has his cup of tea on the avalanche and left for Modo.

Niko Dimitrakos is 11th in the league in scoring. He was nothing more than a STUD 4th liner. I mean, he provided energy and hustle, and more....energy and hustle.

Brad Moran is 15th in the league in scoring. Member him? A career AHLer/PB filler.

Point is, these guys, former NHL drop-outs, are scoring at a pretty good clip in the SEL, is it hard to believe that the Oilers may have a little uncertainty about giving him the rookie max? I mean, a situation that is probable, could be giving him a two-way deal, him struggling, sending him down, and paying him $3 million of our cap for him to develop.

Jesus, the overreaction on this board was a sight of failure. Just relax and see whats going on.

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04-09-2009, 12:52 AM
  #444
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I thought you were just being sarcastic. Omark is good and the Oilers screwed up.
Naw I was under the impression those guys came to North America to develop in the North American farm system. I was unaware they came straight to the NHL at such late ages.

>_<



I thought of Omark as similar to Comrie and Schremp. A small magician, with a bag of tricks that work well in lesser leagues, but they wouldn't have the time or space to pull off that stuff in the NHL.

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04-09-2009, 12:55 AM
  #445
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Jordan Schroeder is 5'9 and he will go in the top 10 this year - obviously size isn't the be all end all.

From all accounts from the Swedish posters Omark has great balance, strong lower body strength, and a willingness to battle and go to high traffic areas.

Edmonton really missed the ball when it came to Omark.

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04-09-2009, 01:09 AM
  #446
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Jordan Schroeder is 5'9 and he will go in the top 10 this year - obviously size isn't the be all end all.
Its not the be all and end all, buts its a pretty big concern to everyone. Every scouting report I've read (I'll be honest, haven't been that many), site Schroeder's biggest weakness is his size. He's ranked 12th on TSN midseason polls.

Look at Tyler Ennis. Definitely not the prospect Jordan is, but still a pretty damn good player in a better league. He was ranked mid-season as 17, his final ranking was 31.

Point being, size is a pretty big factor in the game. Be all end all? Definitely no. But its a legitimate concern, and when only 29% of all those players have 30 pts minimum with his size isn't very reassuring.

Quote:
From all accounts from the Swedish posters Omark has great balance, strong lower body strength, and a willingness to battle and go to high traffic areas.

Edmonton really missed the ball when it came to Omark.
I'll be honest, and I mean no disrespect to our Swedish posters here, but I don't trust something like that.

Remember Mikhnov? Had a great season in the RSL. We were told he had alot of those things you mentioned. He came here and totally bombed. Didn't want to work on his game, and bailed home.
It matters what you do when you get here, doesn't matter what you did or did not do in Europe.

Fact is, rookie max on a relative unknown factor is a big risk. Would it have been great for us to sign Omark? Of course, but if he was asking for the rookie max and a guaranteed spot in the line-up, I'm not sure I'd agree to something like that.

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04-09-2009, 01:11 AM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
Jordan Schroeder is 5'9 and he will go in the top 10 this year - obviously size isn't the be all end all.

From all accounts from the Swedish posters Omark has great balance, strong lower body strength, and a willingness to battle and go to high traffic areas.

Edmonton really missed the ball when it came to Omark.
If Edmonton retains the rights to Omark (at this point we are not sure) this can be looked at as another development year for him. It could be the best thing for both parties. Linus gets to collect a large pay check, and Edmonton lets him get another year of pro competition.

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04-09-2009, 01:15 AM
  #448
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If Edmonton retains the rights to Omark (at this point we are not sure) this can be looked at as another development year for him. It could be the best thing for both parties. Linus gets to collect a large pay check, and Edmonton lets him get another year of pro competition.
precisely, I actually don't mind this at all.

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04-09-2009, 01:21 AM
  #449
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If Edmonton retains the rights to Omark (at this point we are not sure) this can be looked at as another development year for him. It could be the best thing for both parties. Linus gets to collect a large pay check, and Edmonton lets him get another year of pro competition.

I still can't see the Oilers signing him to rookie max, unless he becomes a superstar in the K.

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04-09-2009, 01:33 AM
  #450
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precisely, I actually don't mind this at all.
He is getting really hyped but I really had my doubts about him cracking the roster and having an impact based on our roster. Another small player, he would have had to be really special.

As we seem to retain his rights (unless someone can prove the contrary) this to me is not a huge deal at all.

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