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How high of a first rounder could kaberle get at draft?

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Old
04-08-2009, 08:52 PM
  #76
Prussian_Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Kaberle is by no means a top defender in the league but I tend to find Kabby is either overrated by Leafs fans and very underrated by all others...
I'd say Kaberle is in the top 25 for sure as a d-man... I'd have a hard time naming 25 defensemen who, right now, are better than Kaberle.

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04-08-2009, 10:02 PM
  #77
Mojo19
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Now before some of you asshats come in here and start flaming, and completely lowballing... let's use some objectivity. I'm not saying that Kaberle is as good as Dan Boyle, but he is close to as good offensively, slightly worse defensively and similar in size. The Dan Boyle trade was:

To SJ:Dan Boyle, Brad Lukowich ... To TB:1st Rounder (v.late), 4th Rounder, Ty Wishart (top Dman prospect), and Matt Carle (solid youngster Dman).

Some say that TB got robbed, some say that SJ got robbed. But like it or not... a Dman who is quite similar to Tomas Kaberle but maybe slightly better got a heck of a lot in trade IN THE SUMMER.



I think Kaberle will fetch a mid-late 1st Rounder and a good prospect/youngster.

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04-08-2009, 10:07 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Kaberle is worth quite a bit more to any team than Antropov. I like Antropov, but he's not Top 20-25 at his poisition, as Kaberle is.

I think Kaberle can get a first-rounder, but I doubt it's anything higher than a 10th, for the reasons most often cited in this thread.

The Blues, for example, should be drafting between 13th and 16th, and I doubt very seriously they'd give up that pick for Kaberle.

That's just looking at the Blues' situation specifically, though, and there's nothing to suggest that another team also drafting in that same range -- your Nashvilles, Anaheims, Edmontons and Columbuses -- wouldn't be interested.

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You can take Edmonton off that list. Between Visnovsky, Souray, gilbert, and Grebeshkov they've already got a very expensive high power defence. There's really no way to add Kaberle without one of those 4 going the other way...and that would definitely drop any offer of an Edmonton 1st.

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04-08-2009, 10:28 PM
  #79
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supposing roszival could be moved for something like a 2nd and prospect, i would move the nyr first this year (18ish overall) for kabs straight across. He's signed for another two years and would be exactly the pp qb that this team needs.
wade redden could learn how to play hockey again from him.

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04-09-2009, 02:18 AM
  #80
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doesn't anyone see the benefit of Kaberle on the power play setting up Heatley?!?!? that would be nuts. If you've seen him play, you know what type of passer he is. Remember McCabe scoring buckets of goals a few years ago? Imagine Kaberle feeding Heatley, Spezza, Alfredsson- scary stuff!!

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04-09-2009, 08:03 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
supposing roszival could be moved for something like a 2nd and prospect, i would move the nyr first this year (18ish overall) for kabs straight across. He's signed for another two years and would be exactly the pp qb that this team needs.
wade redden could learn how to play hockey again from him.
Of course you would, but the 18th pick by itself wont get you Kaberle.

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04-09-2009, 08:10 AM
  #82
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Not good enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Of course you would, but the 18th pick by itself wont get you Kaberle.
Then why trade him.

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04-09-2009, 08:17 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo027 View Post
Now before some of you asshats come in here and start flaming, and completely lowballing... let's use some objectivity. I'm not saying that Kaberle is as good as Dan Boyle, but he is close to as good offensively, slightly worse defensively and similar in size. The Dan Boyle trade was:

To SJ:Dan Boyle, Brad Lukowich ... To TB:1st Rounder (v.late), 4th Rounder, Ty Wishart (top Dman prospect), and Matt Carle (solid youngster Dman).

Some say that TB got robbed, some say that SJ got robbed. But like it or not... a Dman who is quite similar to Tomas Kaberle but maybe slightly better got a heck of a lot in trade IN THE SUMMER.

I think Kaberle will fetch a mid-late 1st Rounder and a good prospect/youngster.
SJ had at the time determined Matt Carle was expendable. He had a horrible season and was surpassed by younger, better dmen.

Wishart was the only prize there, other then the very late first rounder, and many would say Wishart was made expendable and somewhat redundant by Petrecki.

So you can look at that deal as a "1st, a top prospect, and a good youngster"...

Or more accurately you can look at that package as "A very late first rounder, a high end expendable prospect, and a struggling youngster".

Personally, I think Toronto should hang on to Kaberle, build around him. He is skilled, and he isn't old. The only reason they should be looking to get rid of him is if he's a liability on the ice, in which case all the posturing on HFboards won't help a thing. He won't fetch the package many Leaf fans think he will.

So I guess my answer to the question would be a late (20-30) 1st round pick. No chance he gets a pick in the top half of the draft.

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04-09-2009, 08:23 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by trickster View Post
Then why trade him.
What do you mean? Who would honestly think that Kaberle would get traded for the 18th pick?

Im thinking that he doesnt get traded in the offseason.

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04-09-2009, 08:27 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Everybody's gaga over first rounders on the boards right now. I don't think Kaberle gets traded, but if he does it likely won't be for picks anyways.
Whether or not Kaberle is worth a first (I believe so) is debateable, but yet many seem to forget there is a 50/50 chance for a 1st round pick to play 200 NHL games. Trading an all star puck moving D for a 50/50 shot at an NHLer......

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04-09-2009, 09:02 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
Whether or not Kaberle is worth a first (I believe so) is debateable, but yet many seem to forget there is a 50/50 chance for a 1st round pick to play 200 NHL games. Trading an all star puck moving D for a 50/50 shot at an NHLer......
200 games is still 40 more than Kaberle is probably going to play for any team he's traded to.

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04-09-2009, 09:06 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
supposing roszival could be moved for something like a 2nd and prospect, i would move the nyr first this year (18ish overall) for kabs straight across. He's signed for another two years and would be exactly the pp qb that this team needs.
wade redden could learn how to play hockey again from him.
I wouldn't. We need to trade Roszival so we can resign our own players. No thanks to giving up our 1st round pick and then STILL having cap problems.

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04-09-2009, 09:16 AM
  #88
johnny canuckistan
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I think Kaberle's value straight up would be for a mid-level 1st rounder, or maybe a late 1st rounder and a prospect. Another possibility is that he could be used to sweeten the pot in an attempt for the Leafs to move up the draft order, something like this:

To NYI or Colorado: Kaberle and the Leafs' 1st rounder (likely 7th overall)

To Toronto: 1st round pick (either 1st or 2nd overall), and a prospect.

The Islanders can't tank every year, as it looks ridiculous on them. However, they probably have no stomach to give up the chance for Tavares. Colorado could be a playoff team next year if they dealt for Kaberle, and it would basically mean they downgrade from Hedman/Duchene to Schenn/Cowen, as well as a prospect (Nigel Williams for example).

Cue those geniuses who think Kaberle isn't even worth a fourth round pick....

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04-09-2009, 09:26 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny canuckistan View Post
I think Kaberle's value straight up would be for a mid-level 1st rounder, or maybe a late 1st rounder and a prospect. Another possibility is that he could be used to sweeten the pot in an attempt for the Leafs to move up the draft order, something like this:

To NYI or Colorado: Kaberle and the Leafs' 1st rounder (likely 7th overall)

To Toronto: 1st round pick (either 1st or 2nd overall), and a prospect.

The Islanders can't tank every year, as it looks ridiculous on them. However, they probably have no stomach to give up the chance for Tavares. Colorado could be a playoff team next year if they dealt for Kaberle, and it would basically mean they downgrade from Hedman/Duchene to Schenn/Cowen, as well as a prospect (Nigel Williams for example).

Cue those geniuses who think Kaberle isn't even worth a fourth round pick....

Come on man, they wont trade away the 1st overall pick. Use your head.

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04-09-2009, 09:32 AM
  #90
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Anyone else find it hilarious that, when you say their D-Man isn't worth a first and top prospect they get so dang defensive?

Jeez, not everyone is going to think Kaberle the greatest thing since sliced bread. There is no need to take as an insult to your team and your honor.

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04-09-2009, 09:34 AM
  #91
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I do not really understand the "it will take a 1st, top prospect and good youngster to get Kaberle" train of thought anymore.

Two trade deadlines ago, Toronto apparently had a deal in place of Kaberle for Carter and a 1st. So basically they were trading Kaberle for a later 1st and a good youngster (Carter was still all potential at that point).

Now, if he is dealt in the offseason, he will be around for 2 seasons and playoffs. At the time of the Carter trade, he would have been around for 3 seasons and 4 playoffs.

However now he is worth more then he was two trade deadlines ago?

I would say the best deal Toronto would get for Kaberle would be a 1st and a good (but not top) prospect, or a 1st and a good youngster (2nd liner). If the 1st is in the 12-18 or so range, then the quality of the player/prospect will be lessened (and the flipside, if it is one of the last picks of the round then the player/prospect would be a 1st line potential type player)

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04-09-2009, 09:49 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by EasyMac View Post
I do not really understand the "it will take a 1st, top prospect and good youngster to get Kaberle" train of thought anymore.

Two trade deadlines ago, Toronto apparently had a deal in place of Kaberle for Carter and a 1st. So basically they were trading Kaberle for a later 1st and a good youngster (Carter was still all potential at that point).

Now, if he is dealt in the offseason, he will be around for 2 seasons and playoffs. At the time of the Carter trade, he would have been around for 3 seasons and 4 playoffs.

However now he is worth more then he was two trade deadlines ago?

I would say the best deal Toronto would get for Kaberle would be a 1st and a good (but not top) prospect, or a 1st and a good youngster (2nd liner). If the 1st is in the 12-18 or so range, then the quality of the player/prospect will be lessened (and the flipside, if it is one of the last picks of the round then the player/prospect would be a 1st line potential type player)
I think you're misunderstanding what people mean when they say 1st, prospect, roster player. The Carter package is worth much, much more than any package involving a 1st, roster player, and prospect. The prospect shouldn't be their best prospect, and the roster player shouldn't be an elite young talent. Kaberle is clearly not worth what he was two years ago, but he's still worth a lot more than many people give him credit for.

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04-09-2009, 09:50 AM
  #93
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My opinion, I'd think Kaberle is worth a 20-30 pick-A pick from a PO team, that might figure Kaberle could be a player to put them over the top to winning a cup.

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04-09-2009, 09:52 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordLucic View Post
Anyone else find it hilarious that, when you say their D-Man isn't worth a first and top prospect they get so dang defensive?

Jeez, not everyone is going to think Kaberle the greatest thing since sliced bread. There is no need to take as an insult to your team and your honor.
It's unbelievably frustrating to see people piling in to say that Kaberle is only worth a second round pick, or something equally ridiculous. Almost as frustrating as people piling into Bruins threads to say the B's have to trade Kessel or Bergeron to stay under the cap, or into Pens threads to say they have to deal one of Malkin or Crosby. Neither of those fanbases find it hilarious.

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04-09-2009, 10:14 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
200 games is still 40 more than Kaberle is probably going to play for any team he's traded to.
Huh? Kaberle at 31 doesn't have much of a career left in the NHL?

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04-09-2009, 10:34 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
Huh? Kaberle at 31 doesn't have much of a career left in the NHL?
The likelyhood that he re-signs with the team he's traded to is 50/50 at best.

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04-09-2009, 10:39 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Flapjack View Post
Kaberle isnt even worth a first rounder, and doubtful a second.

A third round pick, and a low one at that.

Not trying to be insulting, but this is every bit as riduculous as the posters who are expecting a top 10 pick.

The truth is in the middle.

I think the deals involving guys like Cammy and Demitra should give you a clue as to Kaberle's value. A good to very good prospect and a mid-round first seems quite doable.

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04-09-2009, 10:43 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
It's unbelievably frustrating to see people piling in to say that Kaberle is only worth a second round pick, or something equally ridiculous. Almost as frustrating as people piling into Bruins threads to say the B's have to trade Kessel or Bergeron to stay under the cap, or into Pens threads to say they have to deal one of Malkin or Crosby. Neither of those fanbases find it hilarious.

Not that I'm going to defend those who feel Kaberle is worthless (which I view as a ridiculous suggestion) but I suspect that is a reaction against those who are posting stuff like "Kaberle could easily get us a top five pick" (which I saw just yesterday). Extremes tend to balance themselves out on the board.

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04-09-2009, 10:46 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny canuckistan View Post
I think Kaberle's value straight up would be for a mid-level 1st rounder, or maybe a late 1st rounder and a prospect. Another possibility is that he could be used to sweeten the pot in an attempt for the Leafs to move up the draft order, something like this:

To NYI or Colorado: Kaberle and the Leafs' 1st rounder (likely 7th overall)

To Toronto: 1st round pick (either 1st or 2nd overall), and a prospect.

The Islanders can't tank every year, as it looks ridiculous on them. However, they probably have no stomach to give up the chance for Tavares. Colorado could be a playoff team next year if they dealt for Kaberle, and it would basically mean they downgrade from Hedman/Duchene to Schenn/Cowen, as well as a prospect (Nigel Williams for example).

Cue those geniuses who think Kaberle isn't even worth a fourth round pick....

If you think that Kaberle is getting you a crack at Taveres than you are just as big a "genius" as those guys who Kaberle is worth a 4th rounder. This is every bit a ridiculous. And, thinking that you're going to get a "prospect" thrown in elevates this to the absurd.

Kaberle has been the lynch pin on one of the worst defenses in the NHL for years now, and has failed to drag Toronto anywhere near respectability. Why in the world would Col or NYI see Kaberle as the piece that gets them into the playoffs.

Grabo - you wonder why posters react so strongly against Kaberle. I rest my case here. Posts like this are what produce the Kaberle hate here, which I totally agree is unfair. When you see fantasies that totally go beyond a players real value you tend to get extremes in reaction.

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04-09-2009, 11:24 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
The likelyhood that he re-signs with the team he's traded to is 50/50 at best.
Kaberle has two years left at 4.25. He's not going anywhere for two years, and who is to say he wouldn't resign with the team he is playing for at that time. Not sure what your point is.

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