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Old
04-12-2009, 08:45 PM
  #1
montreal
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Habs Top 20

Year end top 20 is up at my site. Warning it's very long, was thinking of spliting it up in two but didn't feel like. I know some will not be happy at Subban being at the top, but the top 4 of Subban, Pac, McDonagh, Weber, you got to like that no matter where you prefer them ranked.

Clearly at some point we need to upgrade on goalie prospects, since we don't have any in the top 20, although with Price being just 21, I wouldn't consider it a major problem at the moment. I can't wait to see how the Habs defense looks in 5-6 years or so, lots of interesting prospects on the blueline not just the top guys.

I didn't count D'Agostini, Stewart, O'B or S.Kosty since they are all in the NHL.

Top 20

1. PK Subban
2. Max Pacioretty
3. Ryan McDonagh
4. Yannick Weber
5. Ben Maxwell
6. Danny Kristo
7. Steve Quailer
8. Kyle Chipchura
9. David Fischer
10. Maxim Trunev
11. Mathieu Carle
12. Joe Stejskal
13. Alexei Emelin
14. David Desharnais
15. Brock Trotter
16. Nichlas Torp
17. Ryan White
18. Andrew Conboy
19. Olivier Latendresse
20. Olivier Fortier

HM Greg Pateryn, Ryan Russell, Cedrick Desjardins

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Old
04-12-2009, 08:58 PM
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Good stuff, thanks!!

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Old
04-12-2009, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Year end top 20 is up at my site. Warning it's very long, was thinking of spliting it up in two but didn't feel like. I know some will not be happy at Subban being at the top, but the top 4 of Subban, Pac, McDonagh, Weber, you got to like that no matter where you prefer them ranked.

Clearly at some point we need to upgrade on goalie prospects, since we don't have any in the top 20, although with Price being just 21, I wouldn't consider it a major problem at the moment. I can't wait to see how the Habs defense looks in 5-6 years or so, lots of interesting prospects on the blueline not just the top guys.

I didn't count D'Agostini, Stewart, O'B or S.Kosty since they are all in the NHL.
are you serious!!!!!!!.....its not like we have 2 amazing goalies who are both under 25

but besides that its all good

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04-12-2009, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Top 20

1. PK Subban
2. Max Pacioretty
3. Ryan McDonagh
4. Yannick Weber
I ****in' love the 2007 draft

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Old
04-12-2009, 09:06 PM
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Nice list.

Does Fischer turn pro next season?

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04-12-2009, 09:06 PM
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What are your thoughts on Steve Quailer's progression. I believe he has some sick offensive upsides. I think he will be a top line player in the NHL, do you ?

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04-12-2009, 09:18 PM
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Jack Bourdain
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I can't believe Olivier Latendresse made it on the top 20, I thought he'd fall off the chart (unless he's already fallen off and 19 is very bad).


Last edited by Jack Bourdain: 04-12-2009 at 10:45 PM.
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04-12-2009, 10:01 PM
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You mind telling me what Trunev did till now to be above Desharnais and White?

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Old
04-12-2009, 10:18 PM
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Nice list as usual Montreal. I know I may have seen him more than the others, but Pateryn deserves to be in the top 20. What he's done despite that he was lucky to have done it thanks to the injuries is worth it. Showed some good offensive hockey sense, booming shot, great defensive play, great toughness. Still nice raw potential, I don't think he'll ever be an offensive force, definately not the type of guy who'll go from an end to another, but might use his booming and usually accurate shot on the net on some PP'S. But I really believe he could be great defensive and tough to play against.

In the other end, would have deserved being there. Having said that, it's just my opinion. You have seem them more as a whole that I did.

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04-12-2009, 10:21 PM
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Great list, Montreal! Kudos on putting Weber at #4.

My biggest argument with the list is very minor: IMO Fortier and Russell have a greater chance of becoming useful NHL'ers than OLatendresse and Desharnais.

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Old
04-12-2009, 10:29 PM
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Great read, lots of info Thanks!

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Old
04-12-2009, 10:37 PM
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What about Valentenko?

I guess Valentenko has vanished from the face of the earth.


Last edited by montreal: 04-12-2009 at 11:30 PM.
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Old
04-12-2009, 11:16 PM
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Nice list, as usual. It takes some guts to put Subban at the top and I like it. I was surprised to see Quailer in front of Chipchura and Fischer but I haven't seen him play enough to argue about it.

O.Latendresse at #19 and O. Fortier at # 20 ? There's probably something you have seen about Latendresse that I haven't. But again, you've seen more Bulldogs games than I did this year.

And, I thought you were a fan of Paquet ?

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Old
04-12-2009, 11:40 PM
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montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgolt View Post
are you serious!!!!!!!.....its not like we have 2 amazing goalies who are both under 25

but besides that its all good
Yes I know we have Price and Halak but if injuries hit them, we currently are looking at having limited depth in Cedrick Desjardins, Loic Lacasse and Robert Mayer (i'm talking next season) of course a Marc Denis type can be brought in or perhaps he will opt to come back, but for now it's got to be at least a minor concern and in the future, it will become a bigger concer, especially if or when the team moves Halak, as I would assume some day he will want to be a starter. Just a guess on my part though.

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Originally Posted by RoyBoyCoy View Post
I ****in' love the 2007 draft
So do I

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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Nice list.

Does Fischer turn pro next season?
I would guess that question won't be answered until after the development camp. I would lean towards him going back to the NCAA but that's based off nothing but a guess.

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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
You mind telling me what Trunev did till now to be above Desharnais and White?
You really need some work on something called manners. It's not hard and they don't cost anything.

I do mind telling you but I'll do it anyway. Trunev played half the season in the KHL, he started the season as a 17 year old, granted he didn't get a ton of ice time, but imo he had a very solid rookie year, much better then say Perezhogin had at the same age. I am not comparing them, but Trunev is the youngest prospect, so in time he could be a very good hockey player as he has speed and more speed, plus some slick offensive skills.

As I said in the article, if he was born a few days later, Timmins would be looking to draft him much higher this summer then he did last summer. That's a guess on my part, feel free not to agree.

Desharnais I like a lot, great year from him for sure, he really suprised me as I didn't find him to be very impressive when he played in Hamilton for a couple games last year. But as good as he is, and he's very skilled with the puck, works hard, is solid in his own end, impressive vision on the ice but also instincts as he knows where to be on the ice to score. The problem is that he needs to get quicker imo, to make up for his lack of height.

White I had much higher the last time around but he hit a major slump in the 2nd half putting up only 7 points which is not going to cut it despite the extra things he brings like grit, and solid defensive play. He's got to get quicker, more explosive. I put a lot into speed in the new NHL, so guys like Chipchura, White must improve their speed, guys like Desharnais, Carle, Beauregard it wouldn't hurt them to get quicker as well.

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Nice list as usual Montreal. I know I may have seen him more than the others, but Pateryn deserves to be in the top 20. What he's done despite that he was lucky to have done it thanks to the injuries is worth it. Showed some good offensive hockey sense, booming shot, great defensive play, great toughness. Still nice raw potential, I don't think he'll ever be an offensive force, definately not the type of guy who'll go from an end to another, but might use his booming and usually accurate shot on the net on some PP'S. But I really believe he could be great defensive and tough to play against.

In the other end, would have deserved being there. Having said that, it's just my opinion. You have seem them more as a whole that I did.
I had Pateryn at 18 but since he sat out the rest of the season and playoffs, I flipped him, as he got lucky to get the ice time he got, as it's clear if those injuries didn't happen, he would not have gotten the ice he got. The fact that he didn't dress a single minute after Mitera returned, I opted to wait and see how he does next year before putting him on the list. I'm sure he'll prove me wrong next year as I really liked what I saw him especially with the puck in the offensive zone, as he clearly has good instincts with the puck to go with his solid frame.

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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Great list, Montreal! Kudos on putting Weber at #4.

My biggest argument with the list is very minor: IMO Fortier and Russell have a greater chance of becoming useful NHL'ers than OLatendresse and Desharnais.
Thanks. I don't agree though, I know that both Desharnais and O Lats are on the small and very small side, but with the way they played this year, I felt they made good strides in their development, and if things continue to improve for them (and hopefully Lats shoulder doesn't hamper his off season) I could see them getting some games in with the Habs if injuries hit hard, as they have a lot of skill and work hard.

Desharnais was 2nd on the Dogs in goals, not bad for the rookie and Olivier Latendresse's stats pro rated this year would put him on par with Brock Trotter who was in the top15 in rookie scoring in the AHL. Granted these guys are not 20 year old rookies, but I was impressed with what I saw from them this year. Russell I think is the Habs most improved prospect, was not a fan of him at last year but this year he's been great, especially when he's on a line with Chipchura. My question though is how will he do without Chipchura, as he seemed to struggle a bit when Chipper was in the NHL or injured.

Fortier I am torn on as he has struggled to produce in the Q, which right there has to be a concern when you can't produce offensively at the junior level. He's got imrpessive speed, seems to always work hard and is great in his own end, which I could see him as a future 4th liner perhaps but my main concern is that he gets pushed around easily at the Q level, I wonder how it will effect him at the AHL level. I'll get a better feel for him next year, so if he does good, he'll move up the list.

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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
I can't believe Olivier Latendresse made it on the top 20, I thought he'd fall off the chart (unless he's already fallen off and 19 is very bad).
He was ripping up the ECHL this year, and when called up to Hamilton, I really liked what I saw, so I put him on the list as he's got some good offensive skills, impressive vision, passing and while he's on the small side, both he and Desjardins will get their nose dirty and don't hurt you in their own end. Granted I took a risk cause I don't know just how bad his shoulder injury was and what impact it may have on him.

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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I guess Valentenko has vanished from the face of the earth.
Almost. He did dress for one game in the KHL playoffs, so I guess there's hope but what a bad move to go from getting good minutes in Hamilton to getting very limited ice time in the KHL. Guess we'll have to see how it impacts his development and where his future is with the Habs.

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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
What are your thoughts on Steve Quailer's progression. I believe he has some sick offensive upsides. I think he will be a top line player in the NHL, do you ?
He made solid progress this year, made the Hockey East All Rookie team and the year before he was the Rookie of the Year for his team in the USHL. As it turns out, Pacioretty was on the CCHA All Rookie team last year and was Rookie of the Year the prior year to Quailer on the same club in the USHL.

He's got a big frame but just needs to fill it out more. Does not look to play much of a physical game, but he's got impressive speed, skating, moves well for sure, seems decent in his own end and looks to have good hands. I put him a little higher then perhaps I should have, cause I would much rather see him learn how to use that size of his better, but as a project he has the potenial to turn into something good for the Habs down the road.

To me I would think his future in the NHL would need to be as a top 6, a guy that you look to get points, moreso then be all that great in his own end, or overly physical/energy type. But it's also early in his development, as he could opt to stay in the NCAA until he's 23 if he stays all 4 years, which is I am not saying he will or won't.

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Originally Posted by pc_md View Post
Nice list, as usual. It takes some guts to put Subban at the top and I like it. I was surprised to see Quailer in front of Chipchura and Fischer but I haven't seen him play enough to argue about it.

O.Latendresse at #19 and O. Fortier at # 20 ? There's probably something you have seen about Latendresse that I haven't. But again, you've seen more Bulldogs games than I did this year.

And, I thought you were a fan of Paquet ?
Thanks. I was torn on Subban and Pacioretty, I love what I've seen from Pac in Hamilton and the fact that he got in so many games in the NHL, is a good sign, hopefully he builds off that, as both imo are going to be very important parts of the future of the Habs, finally guys with speed, strength, physical toughness and lots of offensive skills. Granted both need to work on getting better in their own end, but I'd rather have guys with their skills/physcial abilities that can be taught how to get better in their own end.

Quailer impressed me with his speed and offensive skills, he does remind me a bit of Pacioretty minus the physical game, so I went out more on a limb with him after his solid freshman year.

Chipchura I was disappointed in, he had a couple chances to make an impact and he didn't. Next year is a big one for him, and I fear he's going to have to really step up in a big way, as Metro is under contract and brings what Chipchura doesn't and that's speed. With the improvement Chipper has shown in Hamilton in face-offs, I think he will be ok and I don't see why he can't play some LW especialy if he can get quicker. What a year he had in Hamilton though, very impressive defensively, both coaches (Lever/Wilson) spoke highly of him and his work against the top lines in the league. But there has to be concern when you don't show that you can steal a roster spot. That said, we have had a number of prospects on the Habs spent parts of all 3 of their rookie contract years in Hamilton so the hope is that he can build off what he did in the AHL for next season.

Fischer showed good improvement, I thought of having him in Quailers spot but I was more impressed with the Freshman then I was with the junior, although I still think we see Fischer in the NHL a few years down the road.

See my comments on Fortier and O.Lats, liked what I saw for sure.

Paquet I do like but it appears he's out of the organization. I don't understand why they wouldn't sign him to an AHL contract as he could go to Cincy of the ECHL. Heck they even signed Alex Dulac-Lemelin to an AHL contract after not signing him, and Paquet is clearly much better then Dulac-Lemelin.

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Old
04-12-2009, 11:43 PM
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Thx for the article

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04-12-2009, 11:52 PM
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Fortier I am torn on as he has struggled to produce in the Q, which right there has to be a concern when you can't produce offensively at the junior level. He's got imrpessive speed, seems to always work hard and is great in his own end, which I could see him as a future 4th liner perhaps but my main concern is that he gets pushed around easily at the Q level, I wonder how it will effect him at the AHL level. I'll get a better feel for him next year, so if he does good, he'll move up the list.
Fortier has shown more offense this year in the Q (with 35 points in 29 games). I think he's going to turn out fine as a 3rd line player, 30-40 points per year type of guy. A more talented Kostopoulos that doesn't drop the gloves.

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04-13-2009, 12:01 AM
  #17
montreal
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Fortier has shown more offense this year in the Q (with 35 points in 29 games). I think he's going to turn out fine as a 3rd line player, 30-40 points per year type of guy. A more talented Kostopoulos that doesn't drop the gloves.
Yea he would have likely had career highs if he played a full season but the number he put up this year on a pro rated basis, still wouldn't be that impressive for a 19 year old 3rd round pick imo.

For me, the lack of offense is a concern but I find his frame and lack of lower body strength to be a much bigger problem as I question how he will handle the bigger, stronger players at the AHL level, although he did impress me in preseason action this year for the Habs, he's very fast and may be the hardest working prospect in our farm system.

For me, I put into what they do at the AHL level, cause I see most of Hamilton's games, so I personally get a much better read on the guys when they there, to see how they do against a higher level. Next year I will have a better read on him, so we'll see how he does.

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04-13-2009, 01:55 AM
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Why do you put Fischer ahead of Carle?

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04-13-2009, 02:00 AM
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Why do you put Fischer ahead of Carle?
If you'd read the article you'd know why

Carle hasn't been very impressive imo

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04-13-2009, 02:11 AM
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If you'd read the article you'd know why

Carle hasn't been very impressive imo
I have read the article, but i always thought that carle was a step ahead developpement wise, he's already playing pro and can play the physical game, plus he's having a injury riddled season. I want to have some insight from Montreal (the poster) on the subject.

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04-13-2009, 06:51 AM
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We need an awesome 1st line center prospect, Maxwell is 2nd line potential. We really need to draft a center in 1st round.

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04-13-2009, 07:19 AM
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great list as usual. I really like the fact that you reply to the questions some of us have. I know that you hear this everytime you make a new list, but we really miss you as our team writer.

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04-13-2009, 08:35 AM
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You really need some work on something called manners. It's not hard and they don't cost anything.

I do mind telling you but I'll do it anyway. Trunev played half the season in the KHL, he started the season as a 17 year old, granted he didn't get a ton of ice time, but imo he had a very solid rookie year, much better then say Perezhogin had at the same age. I am not comparing them, but Trunev is the youngest prospect, so in time he could be a very good hockey player as he has speed and more speed, plus some slick offensive skills.

As I said in the article, if he was born a few days later, Timmins would be looking to draft him much higher this summer then he did last summer. That's a guess on my part, feel free not to agree.

Desharnais I like a lot, great year from him for sure, he really suprised me as I didn't find him to be very impressive when he played in Hamilton for a couple games last year. But as good as he is, and he's very skilled with the puck, works hard, is solid in his own end, impressive vision on the ice but also instincts as he knows where to be on the ice to score. The problem is that he needs to get quicker imo, to make up for his lack of height.

White I had much higher the last time around but he hit a major slump in the 2nd half putting up only 7 points which is not going to cut it despite the extra things he brings like grit, and solid defensive play. He's got to get quicker, more explosive. I put a lot into speed in the new NHL, so guys like Chipchura, White must improve their speed, guys like Desharnais, Carle, Beauregard it wouldn't hurt them to get quicker as well.
It's not the 1st time you hear you talk about my manners on the board, i just write it like i would say it out loud, i know it seems pretty straight forward but i never mean it in an angry or sarcastic tone, i'm sorry if you read me wrong, i'l try harder next time....

IMO Desharnais has done too much right now to be below Trunev, from completely dominating the ECHL as a rookie and finishing 2nd on the Bulldogs scoring list (again as a rookie) is damn impressive. I agree though that he needs to work on his topend speed as well as his acceleration

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Chipchura I was disappointed in, he had a couple chances to make an impact and he didn't. Next year is a big one for him, and I fear he's going to have to really step up in a big way, as Metro is under contract and brings what Chipchura doesn't and that's speed. With the improvement Chipper has shown in Hamilton in face-offs, I think he will be ok and I don't see why he can't play some LW especialy if he can get quicker. What a year he had in Hamilton though, very impressive defensively, both coaches (Lever/Wilson) spoke highly of him and his work against the top lines in the league. But there has to be concern when you don't show that you can steal a roster spot. That said, we have had a number of prospects on the Habs spent parts of all 3 of their rookie contract years in Hamilton so the hope is that he can build off what he did in the AHL for next season.
As for this guy, the day he stops thinking he's all that and gets some powerskating lessons, maybe he'l a have shot at an NHL future, but Lappierre has completely blown him off the map, and with White coming in, my guess is he'l be gone in a package deal before next year.

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04-13-2009, 09:18 AM
  #24
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Why do you put Fischer ahead of Carle?
Upside, Fischer is making good progress, he's the top D on his team imo and while the offense hasn't really been there, he's usually very solid in his own end.

Carle has had a tough year, he has looked much better of late, but I want to see him improve as he has been passed by Carle.

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I have read the article, but i always thought that carle was a step ahead developpement wise, he's already playing pro and can play the physical game, plus he's having a injury riddled season. I want to have some insight from Montreal (the poster) on the subject.
Carle is a step ahead development wise since he's playing in the AHL vs the NCAA, but I would expect Fischer to be more effective at the AHL level whenever he reaches that level either next season or the following. Carle has trouble with the physical game, and in his own end, but has shown improvement there.

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It's not the 1st time you hear you talk about my manners on the board, i just write it like i would say it out loud, i know it seems pretty straight forward but i never mean it in an angry or sarcastic tone, i'm sorry if you read me wrong, i'l try harder next time....

IMO Desharnais has done too much right now to be below Trunev, from completely dominating the ECHL as a rookie and finishing 2nd on the Bulldogs scoring list (again as a rookie) is damn impressive. I agree though that he needs to work on his topend speed as well as his acceleration

As for this guy, the day he stops thinking he's all that and gets some powerskating lessons, maybe he'l a have shot at an NHL future, but Lappierre has completely blown him off the map, and with White coming in, my guess is he'l be gone in a package deal before next year.

No doubt that Desharnais has been impressive for what he's done as a pro. I think Trunev also has impressive offensive skills and he's got that speed that Desharnais lacks, plus when you factor in that Trunev doesn't turn 19 until the season is already started next year, I went more with upside on Trunev then actual play.

Chipchura sure could use some powerskating lessons, anything to help him be more explosive. White looks to be a few years away so he shouldn't have any impact on Chipchura, and he's got the same issues, he's got to get quicker as well.

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Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
We need an awesome 1st line center prospect, Maxwell is 2nd line potential. We really need to draft a center in 1st round.
No doubt. Maxwell exceded my expectations this year, as he looked really good, I just hope he gets stronger, fills out his frame more, but I look forward to what he can do as he continues to progress/develop. But it's clear the Habs must upgrade the center position over the next couple of drafts. Timmins has done this with the D prospects, as a few years back going into the '06 draft it was a major need and since then it's been addressed. Hopefully the focus will be the center position in June.

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Originally Posted by Komisarev View Post
great list as usual. I really like the fact that you reply to the questions some of us have. I know that you hear this everytime you make a new list, but we really miss you as our team writer.
Thanks a lot, it's nice to hear positive feedback as I put a ton of time and energy into this throughout the year. But it's also very fun to do, so it never feels like work, I'm just glad people actually like to read about the prospects and I enjoy the discussions, answering questions, etc...


Last edited by montreal: 04-13-2009 at 09:43 AM.
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04-13-2009, 11:16 AM
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So refreshing to have a prospects list made without considering draft order. Your article was a good read & I agree Subban should be first. Actually your top 5 is dead on. great job! and please keep up the good work, i always enjoy reading your posts in the hamilton & propects threads.

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