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Old
04-13-2009, 11:30 AM
  #26
GoldenForum
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Can someone please copy and paste the link to the article. For some reason the original link to "my site" is not working for me. Thanks.

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04-13-2009, 12:06 PM
  #27
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Can someone please copy and paste the link to the article. For some reason the original link to "my site" is not working for me. Thanks.
http://www.habprospects.com/

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04-13-2009, 12:44 PM
  #28
montreal
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So refreshing to have a prospects list made without considering draft order. Your article was a good read & I agree Subban should be first. Actually your top 5 is dead on. great job! and please keep up the good work, i always enjoy reading your posts in the hamilton & propects threads.
Thanks, I'm glad you noticed that, as I think people often get caught up in where a player is drafted. Just look at S.Kostitsyn, while he's had his struggles, if you were to consider him a prospect still (which I can understand if some do, but I don't) he would be one of our top prospects for sure, despite being drafted 200th overall.

Granted I may be buying into the hype when it comes to Subban, and I like McDonagh a lot but to me, but I find Subban's max upside to be much higher as he brings the rare mix of speed, skating, offensive skills, physical toughness, and is at least decent in his own end imo. McDonagh is the safer bet to reach his potential and he will be in the NHL on the PK and playing physical while also hopefully added some offense as well. To me I look at it as Subban looks to have a Markov type of impact if everything goes right for him, whereas McDonagh is see as having a Hammer like impact (say Hammer from last year) but more physical perhaps less offense. So despite one being drafted 12th overall and the other being drafted 43rd, I rank the top end talent higher.

Also I changed up the format for the write ups, just wanted to try something different, usually it's not as long as it was this time around though.

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Old
04-13-2009, 01:26 PM
  #29
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Compared to d'Agostini and Pacioretty, Maxwell was unimpressive in his brief stay in the NHL and was sent down as soon as injured players returned. I remember how Plekanec and Higgins looked in their cameo appearances before being called up as regulars, and Maxwell wasn't playing at their level even though they, too, had no points. Nor has Maxwell been racking up points in Hamilton the way Plekanec, Higgins, and Perezhogin were. So what is his upside?

Chipchura is on the bubble and IMO is the poorest first round pick of the Timmins era. Granted, he's had his share of injuries, but his progress in improving his skating has been disappointing.

Both Subban and Weber intrigue me, and I'm impatient to see McDonagh in September.

Finally, why has Emelin declined so much, relatively speaking?

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04-13-2009, 01:34 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Compared to d'Agostini and Pacioretty, Maxwell was unimpressive in his brief stay in the NHL and was sent down as soon as injured players returned. I remember how Plekanec and Higgins looked in their cameo appearances before being called up as regulars, and Maxwell wasn't playing at their level even though they, too, had no points. Nor has Maxwell been racking up points in Hamilton the way Plekanec, Higgins, and Perezhogin were. So what is his upside?

Chipchura is on the bubble and IMO is the poorest first round pick of the Timmins era. Granted, he's had his share of injuries, but his progress in improving his skating has been disappointing.

Both Subban and Weber intrigue me, and I'm impatient to see McDonagh in September.

Finally, why has Emelin declined so much?
Well actually Maxwell put up more points in his rookie year then Higgins and Perezhogin and Pleks did in their rookie season. I do agree though, he did struggle in his NHL call up, he sure has been solid in the AHL though, runs the point on the PP, can dish the puck, shoot the puck and has some slick stickhandling. I think he needs to get stronger and add some mass to his frame.

Chipchura has been great in Hamilton this year, granted I'm disappointed in him at the NHL this year, so hopefully we works hard this summer. I actually don't mind his skating that much, I want to see him be more explosive.

Emelin has had his ups and downs since going to AK Bars, perhaps it's the case of too much money at a young age, and he's having more fun off the ice then on? I don't know though, it's not easy to get good info out of Russia.

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04-13-2009, 01:36 PM
  #31
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thanks

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Old
04-13-2009, 03:03 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Yes I know we have Price and Halak but if injuries hit them, we currently are looking at having limited depth in Cedrick Desjardins, Loic Lacasse and Robert Mayer (i'm talking next season) of course a Marc Denis type can be brought in or perhaps he will opt to come back, but for now it's got to be at least a minor concern and in the future, it will become a bigger concer, especially if or when the team moves Halak, as I would assume some day he will want to be a starter. Just a guess on my part though.
From the few games I saw Mayer play this year, he looked as though he has regressed. His play was much better late last year IMO. A few faithful SJ fans told me that he is a streaky goaltender. Dunno if anyone has anymore insight on him, but he was unimpressive to me in the games I watched.

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Old
04-13-2009, 03:06 PM
  #33
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Clearly at some point we need to upgrade on goalie prospects, since we don't have any in the top 20, although with Price being just 21, I wouldn't consider it a major problem at the moment.
Well, to me, Mayer, Desjardins or Meissin (sp?) are all longshots, but I'd put any of them in the top 20 over Olivier Latendresse. Aside from him, good list.

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04-13-2009, 03:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by gorman03 View Post
From the few games I saw Mayer play this year, he looked as though he has regressed. His play was much better late last year IMO. A few faithful SJ fans told me that he is a streaky goaltender. Dunno if anyone has anymore insight on him, but he was unimpressive to me in the games I watched.
Yea I saw Mayer a little last year and a little this year and it was often not pretty. I have heard the knock on him was his consistency, so I guess we'll see what happens with him.

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Well, to me, Mayer, Desjardins or Meissin (sp?) are all longshots, but I'd put any of them in the top 20 over Olivier Latendresse. Aside from him, good list.
Mayer, no way as I would have him at the bottom of our prospect pool, Missaien I can see as I like what I saw him from, but I had a hard time getting a good read on him, as he'd make some really good saves and then let in 2 or 3 crappy goals, granted he was seeing a ton of rubber, but I wasn't sure what to make of him. I am interested in seeing what he does at the pro level in 2 years. Desjardins I can see why others would have him higher but I can't say I'm totally sold on him, he has been good in Hamilton, which is why I put him just outside the top 20.

What is it about O Lats you don't like? Did you see him this year? I thought he looked very good on Desharnais's line, these two seem to work well together. Or is it the injury concern?

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04-13-2009, 03:46 PM
  #35
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Hey montreal, great list. I was wondering if you would have placed emelin a bit higher if his coming over to NA wasn't in question.

Also, I'd like to know how good you think fischer's chances of turning pro are. A defensive squad including Mcdonagh, fischer, subban and weber (if he isn't kept up wiht the habs) would be really fun to watch.

And with the emergence of weber and subban, do you think that Carle will become trade bait? I was always pretty high on him and i hated that he kept getting injured

Btw, you got me pretty excited about Kristo, i wasn't sold on him until reading your article. Great work.

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Old
04-13-2009, 03:57 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Hey montreal, great list. I was wondering if you would have placed emelin a bit higher if his coming over to NA wasn't in question.

Also, I'd like to know how good you think fischer's chances of turning pro are. A defensive squad including Mcdonagh, fischer, subban and weber (if he isn't kept up wiht the habs) would be really fun to watch.

And with the emergence of weber and subban, do you think that Carle will become trade bait? I was always pretty high on him and i hated that he kept getting injured

Btw, you got me pretty excited about Kristo, i wasn't sold on him until reading your article. Great work.
Thanks. Emelin is a tough one, I got to see him play for Lada and AK Bars, and he just looks like a different player now, then he did with Lada. I don't know why he's struggled, but it's clear he's not progressed as had hoped after an impressive showing at the WJC's a few years back. I do think he will come over, I wouldn't bet on it, but I think things at least look good for him to come over this summer (hope he brings Korneev with him)

Well if I had to put money, my guess would be that Fischer does not turn pro this summer, so he should be in Hamilton the following year (2010-2011) but if he has a great development camp, management might want him in Hamilton this year. Next year Hamilton should be fun to watch with the young D's plus they have a bunch of rookies that all had good years.

I don't know what the Habs will do with Carle, as I don't know how much trade value he would even have. I'd have no problem with Subban, Weber and carle as the 3 RD's, as you could see one or more getting some games in with the Habs at different points in the season.

As for Kristo, I was told a couple months before the draft that Timmins really liked Kristo, so imo that's a good start. But the real test will be next year when he goes up against bigger stronger players, as the WCHA is often the toughest conference in the NCAA (I'd say the WCHA is something like the WHL, when compared to the other conferences if that makes sense) So hopefully they will be able to get him to round out his game, and another trip to the WJC's next december should be good for him as well.

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04-13-2009, 07:14 PM
  #37
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Thx good article, solid top 20!! Subban #1 is well deserved!!

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Old
04-13-2009, 07:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
What is it about O Lats you don't like? Did you see him this year? I thought he looked very good on Desharnais's line, these two seem to work well together. Or is it the injury concern?
Well, first is his age. He's pushing the definition of prospect at 23.

Second is injuries, he's never managed to play anywhere near 80 games in a single pro season.

Third, he has never cracked the AHL full time. Let alone the NHL.

Fourth is his size. Guys of his size don't make it in the NHL unless they can absolutely annihilate the AHL. Locke was a much, much better AHLer than Lats and never got much of a sniff in the NHL.

At 23, he's organizational depth. I don't see him as having any more NHL future with Montreal than Steve Gainey.

I admit, though, that my arguments are more about whether or not he is even a prospect and less about his actual performances.

Desjardins at least played a full season at a high level in the AHL, and while he is a couple months older, I'd sooner relax the definition of prospect age for a goalie. Meyer and Meissien are at least still juniors.

I'd also list a host of other guys (Valentenko perhaps) over any of them.


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Old
04-14-2009, 07:31 AM
  #39
montreal
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Well, first is his age. He's pushing the definition of prospect at 23.

Second is injuries, he's never managed to play anywhere near 80 games in a single pro season.

Third, he has never cracked the AHL full time. Let alone the NHL.

Fourth is his size. Guys of his size don't make it in the NHL unless they can absolutely annihilate the AHL. Locke was a much, much better AHLer than Lats and never got much of a sniff in the NHL.

At 23, he's organizational depth. I don't see him as having any more NHL future with Montreal than Steve Gainey.

I admit, though, that my arguments are more about whether or not he is even a prospect and less about his actual performances.

Desjardins at least played a full season at a high level in the AHL, and while he is a couple months older, I'd sooner relax the definition of prospect age for a goalie. Meyer and Meissien are at least still juniors.

I'd also list a host of other guys (Valentenko perhaps) over any of them.

Yea he's an older prospect, but I didn't follow much of him until the Habs got him, and ever since he came over, I like what I've seen.

Injuries is a concern, I heard that the shoulder was bad but I wonder just how bad it will be for him, I guess we'll see next year.

Well after leading the ECHL in scoring this year, and putting up points on average that was right up there with Trotter and company, there seemed to be little doubt that he was going to stick with Hamilton full time.

As for size, yea Locke put up more points for sure as he had a career year this season, but he is lazy, soft, slow and bad in his own end, Lats is none of those things. I would take Lats over Locke any day of the week, there's a reason why Locke was often in Coach Lever's doghouse.

The reason why I think he brings more to the Habs then say Steve Gainey, is his offensive skills, very impressive vision and passing imo, granted he's small but he's quick and works hard.

Valentenko took some big steps backwards and his future in the organization is in question, so until I hear otherwise, I'm not ranking him anymore.

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04-14-2009, 07:47 AM
  #40
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I'm intrigued by Quailer. Could he become our version of Blake Wheeler? Its great to see a 3rd round pick of last year rated so high this soon.

Subban's development is also extremely impressive, do you think he might have a shot at playing some games in the NHL next year, and perhaps even securing a regular spot?

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Old
04-14-2009, 08:03 AM
  #41
montreal
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I'm intrigued by Quailer. Could he become our version of Blake Wheeler? Its great to see a 3rd round pick of last year rated so high this soon.

Subban's development is also extremely impressive, do you think he might have a shot at playing some games in the NHL next year, and perhaps even securing a regular spot?
Well I don't think Quailer has the skill level of Wheeler, but we'll see how much he can progress, as Wheeler could dominate at times in the NCAA, tough to say if Quailer will be able to do that.

Subban, yes I could see him getting some games in with the Habs next year, as Weber did this year. I would be surprised if he was able to land a full time spot, but I guess we'll need to see who is actually at camp in the sept.

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04-14-2009, 08:08 AM
  #42
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Seing Chiipchura at no.8 makes me think this hockey club needs forwards, and they need it bad. Out of that list, Maxwell and Pacioretty are top two lines material.... (maybe Turnev also if he ever comes here). Fortier, White and Chipchura will be AHL material or 4th line material, while I can't tell about Kristo and Quailer because I aven't seen them play yet.

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04-14-2009, 10:15 AM
  #43
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I ****in' love the 2007 draft
I agree. But I ****ing hate the 2003 draft...

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Old
04-14-2009, 12:35 PM
  #44
montreal
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I agree. But I ****ing hate the 2003 draft...
Yea 4 NHLers from the draft sucks. Oh well, look at '99 or just about any draft in the '90's outside of '98, '02 hasn't been very good for us either outside of Higgins and the hope that Korneev comes over.

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04-14-2009, 09:23 PM
  #45
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montreal are you trevor timmins?

Look at the size of those Posts !?!?111!!

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Old
04-14-2009, 09:56 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Thanks. Emelin is a tough one, I got to see him play for Lada and AK Bars, and he just looks like a different player now, then he did with Lada. I don't know why he's struggled, but it's clear he's not progressed as had hoped after an impressive showing at the WJC's a few years back. I do think he will come over, I wouldn't bet on it, but I think things at least look good for him to come over this summer (hope he brings Korneev with him)


That being said, where would you have ranked korneev? I'm also curious as to what your thoughts about his chances of coming over are. Would he be able to crack our line up right off the bat?

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04-15-2009, 08:01 AM
  #47
montreal
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That being said, where would you have ranked korneev? I'm also curious as to what your thoughts about his chances of coming over are. Would he be able to crack our line up right off the bat?
Well it's not fair to compare a guy that's spent 7 years in the RSL/KHL but if I had to rank him I guess it would be either 1st or 2nd cause he's proven to be to able to play at a high level against talented players. If he came over, I would expect him to be very good in just about all areas outside of the physical part as I don't know how his lack of size would affect him, he is a very good stickchecker though.

I don't know if he will come over, but I got to think this is our best chance to see him over here, I would even suggest that it may be a now or never type of situation, where if he signs another 2-3 year contract in Russia, I would think it would be a safe bet that we won't ever see him. Hopefully his agent and Gainey can work something out this summer.

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montreal are you trevor timmins?

Look at the size of those Posts !?!?111!!
Nope, not Timmins, I'm actually a lot taller. As for my post count, I've been here just about every day before the '02 meltdown of HF.

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