The Habs have enough wingers. I'd rather get Lecavalier and be strong down the middle. Having a strong center position is the key to success. Lecavalier is a goal scorer, too. He just happens to have the added bonus of being a center.
Plus, Gaborik is an injury risk.
We have UFA's and if we don't sign some of them, there's definitely space for Gaborik, and with Gaborik we don't need to give up part of our future in order to sign him.
With Lecavalier not only do we get a contract similar or even worse then what we'd be getting with Gaborik, but we need to give up a ton of assets in order to aquire him.
I'd rather we pick up Gaborik this season, then eventually via the UFA market pick up a big center, rather then pass up on the opportunity of getting a guy who imo has the potential to be a top 5 point getter in the NHL.
I'd rather take the risk, then take no risk at all and always end up a mediocre team. Other teams that win cups, they have forwards they give a ton of money to for a reason. Those players are gamebreakers.
Does it blow up in their face when said player gets injured? Of course it does at times. But the point for me is that to win a cup, you HAVE to take risks. If you don't then you'll always just be a middle of the pack team, even if you're good you likely won't have the gamebreaking goalies, d's, or forwards to get you a cup.
Middle of the pack teams are good from a financial standpoint I guess, cause playoff games equates to $, and risking big $ on one player who may get injured might equate to missing said playoffs and the $ that goes with it, but in order to succeed imo you need to take a risk here or there, signing a guy like Gaborik has a lot of payoff but a lot of risk. He could be healthy and be a 100pt guy and lead you to a cup. He could get injured and cost you a playoff.
Still better then being middle of the pack and having almost no chance in the playoffs to begin with.
Few teams rely purely on amazing chemistry/management/goaltending. I mean frankly I can't think of any teams that are truly Detroit or New Jersey calibre in terms of recent success.
That is attributed to smart management and risks. Brodeur is a good goaltender, but will Clemmenson bring you a cup if he gets inured? Obviously this is a risk too. Detroit is a good team, but what happens if Datsyuk, Lidstrom get injured in the 1st round? Obviously there's always risks and spreading your $ out more evenly means that if one player gets injured, you're only losing a smaller part of your team in comparison to if you took the risk and got a big name, but the more you spread it and the less risk you take imo the lest chance of getting a cup you have.
Detroit is an extremely well managed team, that is why they win cups left and right. Maybe to some it seems like their management outweighs their risks, and I'd have to agree with this, but as I said, there are maybe 1-2 teams in the NHL that truly have the management to put together teams like this. For the rest of the teams who won the cup inbetween the 4 cups Detroit won in the last 11 seasons I'm positive they relied on signing a risky big name guy.
Yes. With Gaborik we gamble but if he's healthy, we get a 40 goal, mayube 50 goal player. We haven't had that in Montreal in forever.
Exactly. And people don't seem to realize Lecavalier can get injured too. And he's not old Lecavalier anymore, he's still good but he's certainly not worth the asking price and salary.
Gaborik is likely going to be worth the price and if healthy, would be MORE then worth his salary imo.
Any player can have bad luck with injuries. Gab is a pretty injury prone player, but as I said, need to take risks sometimes to be a contender.
Gaborik isn't exactly a cream puff. He's no Bertuzzi, but he isn't afraid to go to dirty areas to get goals. 17 pts in 18 games in the Wild's 2003 playoff run, in the clutch-and-grab era and in a stifling Minnesota defensive system.
Kovalev isn't a cream puff. Kostitsyn isn't a cream puff. Koivu isn't a cream puff. That's not the point I'm trying to make. It's not in their nature to be gritty, even if they display some grit from time to time. Enough of those guys. Recent history has proven that we don't win with those guys!
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4
No reason to say Canadian player.. there are tons of Americans and Europeans who play that style of game, it doesn't matter who we get, so long as they play that style.
I didn't say that all Canadians were grittier than other nations, nor did I say that all players from other nations are soft, so please stop with the lecture. What I am saying is that we need skills and grit and I've had enough of guys like Gaborik. Give me good Canadian skills and grit mix blended with the skills we already have and we'll turn this franchise around even more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf
I did not read the thread but here is a question for you...If you had a choice between Gaborik or Lemaire as coach which do you go for? Not saying either will happen but just something I was thinking of. I believe that they are far from friendly so I doubt that it would be possible to get both.
Neither. No more defense-first coaches and no more dipsy-doodlers, we have enough of them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lxzred
I was basically making the same point as you, saying a player is grittier because he's Canadian is not very logical. Comparison based on nationality is stupid.
You missed the entire point. See the reply to natey.
Yes. With Gaborik we gamble but if he's healthy, we get a 40 goal, mayube 50 goal player. We haven't had that in Montreal in forever.
You’re missing the point though;
In two years (2010-2011) let’s say the cap is at $46 million.
We ALREADY have $18 million committed for that season.
So let’s assume:
Komisarek: $4 million
Subban: $875,000 (assuming he doesn’t get the rookie max)
Already signed: Markov ($5.75), Hamrlik ($5.5), Gorges (1.1), O’Byrne ($.942), Weber ($.875) Total: 7 defensemen, $19.042 million
Price : $3 million
Halak/backup: $1 million Total: 2 goalies, $4 million
Higgins: $2 million
Plekanec : $2 million
Latendresse: $1.5 million
Lapierre: $1.5 million
Sergie Kostitsyin: $1 million
D’Agostini: $700,000
Stewart: $700,000
Already signed: Andrei Kostitsyin ($3.25), Laraque ($1.5), Pacioretty ($.875), Maxwell ($.735) Total: 11 forwards, $15.76 million
That total comes out to a grand total of $38.80 million, give or take. Ignore the relative salaries; if it’s not Plekanec getting $2 million it will be whoever replaces him. Works out the same. Add $7 million for Gaborik (ignoring that he’s already turned down a $7 million contract) and we’re right up to the $46 million cap.
But that’s with no Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, or Kostopoulos. Our center depth is Plekanec, Lapierre, Maxwell and a prayer. We would actually only have 12 forwards on the roster, meaning that if one of them comes down with the flu for a day or two there would be nobody to replace them. Depending on how it actually plays out, we may not even be able to call up somebody because we would be too close to the cap (see the mess Calgary is currently in).
Now IF Higgins, Plekanec, Latendresse, the brothers and D’Agostini all become those great offensive threats they are supposed to be, MAYBE Gaborik will be the missing piece… but if they don’t… well, it would be Gaborik and not much else… Is that the type of gamble you want to take?
Kovalev isn't a cream puff. Kostitsyn isn't a cream puff. Koivu isn't a cream puff. That's not the point I'm trying to make. It's not in their nature to be gritty, even if they display some grit from time to time. Enough of those guys. Recent history has proven that we don't win with those guys!
The difference being none of those players bring anything remotely close to the table that Gaborik could bring when healthy... If Koivu could score 50 goals and keep his current level of grittiness he'd be one of the best players in the game. Like Gaborik is.
If anything, recent history has shown we can't win with a bunch of 2nd liners and mediocre first liners. Look at the dimension Tanguay brings to this team when he's in the lineup. And he isn't the premiere first liner that Gaborik is, he's just better than what we have.
The difference being none of those players bring anything remotely close to the table that Gaborik could bring when healthy... If Koivu could score 50 goals and keep his current level of grittiness he'd be one of the best players in the game. Like Gaborik is.
If anything, recent history has shown we can't win with a bunch of 2nd liners and mediocre first liners. Look at the dimension Tanguay brings to this team when he's in the lineup. And he isn't the premiere first liner that Gaborik is, he's just better than what we have.
In bold the key words... He's hasn't been healthy his entire career!
In bold the key words... He's hasn't been healthy his entire career!
I know. I prefaced my original statement with it being a gamble and I wasn't sure I'd even take it. But as I said, players can get healthier and if he were to do that there's no team in the league that wouldn't take him.
We have UFA's and if we don't sign some of them, there's definitely space for Gaborik, and with Gaborik we don't need to give up part of our future in order to sign him.
With Lecavalier not only do we get a contract similar or even worse then what we'd be getting with Gaborik, but we need to give up a ton of assets in order to aquire him.
I'd rather we pick up Gaborik this season, then eventually via the UFA market pick up a big center, rather then pass up on the opportunity of getting a guy who imo has the potential to be a top 5 point getter in the NHL.
I'd rather take the risk, then take no risk at all and always end up a mediocre team. Other teams that win cups, they have forwards they give a ton of money to for a reason. Those players are gamebreakers.
Does it blow up in their face when said player gets injured? Of course it does at times. But the point for me is that to win a cup, you HAVE to take risks. If you don't then you'll always just be a middle of the pack team, even if you're good you likely won't have the gamebreaking goalies, d's, or forwards to get you a cup.
Middle of the pack teams are good from a financial standpoint I guess, cause playoff games equates to $, and risking big $ on one player who may get injured might equate to missing said playoffs and the $ that goes with it, but in order to succeed imo you need to take a risk here or there, signing a guy like Gaborik has a lot of payoff but a lot of risk. He could be healthy and be a 100pt guy and lead you to a cup. He could get injured and cost you a playoff.
Still better then being middle of the pack and having almost no chance in the playoffs to begin with.
Few teams rely purely on amazing chemistry/management/goaltending. I mean frankly I can't think of any teams that are truly Detroit or New Jersey calibre in terms of recent success.
That is attributed to smart management and risks. Brodeur is a good goaltender, but will Clemmenson bring you a cup if he gets inured? Obviously this is a risk too. Detroit is a good team, but what happens if Datsyuk, Lidstrom get injured in the 1st round? Obviously there's always risks and spreading your $ out more evenly means that if one player gets injured, you're only losing a smaller part of your team in comparison to if you took the risk and got a big name, but the more you spread it and the less risk you take imo the lest chance of getting a cup you have.
Detroit is an extremely well managed team, that is why they win cups left and right. Maybe to some it seems like their management outweighs their risks, and I'd have to agree with this, but as I said, there are maybe 1-2 teams in the NHL that truly have the management to put together teams like this. For the rest of the teams who won the cup inbetween the 4 cups Detroit won in the last 11 seasons I'm positive they relied on signing a risky big name guy.
Just loading up on UFAs is not how you build a Cup-winning team. You can't just pick up UFAs to fill holes. You have to target the right players. Gaborik is a good player and one to target. So is Lecavalier. But whoever you target to fill the center position that is a UFA will not be as good as Vinny. And having a strong center position is very important.
The Detroit motto goes beyond asset management.Detroit picks the right players and does it whatever it takes to acquire them.
Besides, you can't guarantee UFAs coming here. Even if you get Gaborik, you can't guarantee getting a good center. And a good center is what the Habs have been needing for ages. If Lecavalier is available, you jump on it.
Kovalev isn't a cream puff. Kostitsyn isn't a cream puff. Koivu isn't a cream puff. That's not the point I'm trying to make. It's not in their nature to be gritty, even if they display some grit from time to time. Enough of those guys. Recent history has proven that we don't win with those guys!
Flyers didnt win anything with grittier players in recent history aswell. Detroit doesnt have a gritty team, full of non-gritty-Canadians but still manage to win the cup.
Not that i dont agree with you that we need more gritty/skilled Canadians but saying that we didnt win anything with "those" guys is unfair. They were our best players in the playoff last season but they cannot do anything by themself.
Just loading up on UFAs is not how you build a Cup-winning team. You can't just pick up UFAs to fill holes. You have to target the right players. Gaborik is a good player and one to target. So is Lecavalier. But whoever you target to fill the center position that is a UFA will not be as good as Vinny. And having a strong center position is very important.
The Detroit motto goes beyond asset management.Detroit picks the right players and does it whatever it takes to acquire them.
Besides, you can't guarantee UFAs coming here. Even if you get Gaborik, you can't guarantee getting a good center. And a good center is what the Habs have been needing for ages. If Lecavalier is available, you jump on it.
Imo if Koivu was centering Tanguay and Gaborik, you would see the elite side of Koivu I've known was there all along.
I mean what is the best line the guy has ever had to play with? His current one? And look at his production on said line.
Not going to try and pawn Koivu off as a BIG center, but a good center, I think he'd be among the top 30 in the NHL if he was on a line like that and it stayed healthy.
I will give you this though: that line may have some injury issues, but as a top line they would likely be epic.
You're right about Detroit and I wasn't trying to say it was purely because of one reason but their management does play a big part in their success.
Obviously you need to choose the right peices of the puzzle and not just any peice, I just feel that Gaborik is one of the few UFA big name players we'll have an actual shot at signing if we try to, in a very long time.
For Vinny we'd likely need to give up Subban and some other good players too. With Gaborik you let go of dead weight and sign him.
I know Hossa will also be UFA but I find signing Hossa or even Jaybo is more of a pipe dream, where as Gaborik if we actively pursued him I think we'd have a shot at signing him.
Anyways you all don't have to think I'm right I knew it would be a controversial subject but I think it would be a risk worth taking is all.
Imo if Koivu was centering Tanguay and Gaborik, you would see the elite side of Koivu I've known was there all along.
I mean what is the best line the guy has ever had to play with? His current one? And look at his production on said line.
Not going to try and pawn Koivu off as a BIG center, but a good center, I think he'd be among the top 30 in the NHL if he was on a line like that and it stayed healthy.
I will give you this though: that line may have some injury issues, but as a top line they would likely be epic.
You're right about Detroit and I wasn't trying to say it was purely because of one reason but their management does play a big part in their success.
Obviously you need to choose the right peices of the puzzle and not just any peice, I just feel that Gaborik is one of the few UFA big name players we'll have an actual shot at signing if we try to, in a very long time.
For Vinny we'd likely need to give up Subban and some other good players too. With Gaborik you let go of dead weight and sign him.
I know Hossa will also be UFA but I find signing Hossa or even Jaybo is more of a pipe dream, where as Gaborik if we actively pursued him I think we'd have a shot at signing him.
Anyways you all don't have to think I'm right I knew it would be a controversial subject but I think it would be a risk worth taking is all.
Koivu is great. I don't want him to go anywhere. I'd prefer to add another guy to help him out. If we want Gaborik, I wouldn't be past giving up Kovalev to get him.
I don't know how I'd feel about Gaborik signing a big deal with us... mixture of excited and terribly worried I guess.
but I wouldn't be surprised to see it.
Gainey has targeted big name guys for the last few years now (Arnott, Smyth, Briere, Hossa, Lecavalier...), and with each successive failure you have to think he's getting at least a little more "eager" or willing to take a risk.
If Hossa signs an extension with Detroit, I expect Gainey to be very aggressive in trying to land Gaborik, Lecavalier (if he's made available) or the Sedin twins.
I think that pretty much sums up Gaborik's career. He's a great player, but WAY too injury prone. I don't think the habs should sign him. (However I would not be too upset if the habs did sign him)
he threw 6 years and about 50 mill to BRIERE for crissake, and that very season at the deadline he kept talking about adding an "impact player" blah blah, so if he went BIG money with briere, i guarantee he will throw BIG money at gaborik or hossa
THIS is the year to tie up 1-2 players via free agency and make sure there BIG parts of the team
I'm convinced his last surgery fixed him for good. He had something out of whack with his hip that put stress on his body. They just patch him up. They fixed the source of his problems. We definitely have to get our hands on him.
I knew it would be a controversial subject but I think it would be a risk worth taking is all.
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