To me, the Flyers have to answer a question. Is the ultimate goal to win the Stanley Cup or to go as far as they can playing Flyers hockey? Because until we knock of the "message sending" crap like this or the crashing into the goalies like Hartnell, we are NEVER going to get the marginal whistles that become pretty critical deep in the playoffs.
To me, the Flyers have to answer a question. Is the ultimate goal to win the Stanley Cup or to go as far as they can playing Flyers hockey? Because until we knock of the "message sending" crap like this or the crashing into the goalies like Hartnell, we are NEVER going to get the marginal whistles that become pretty critical deep in the playoffs.
Hartnall had a horrible game penalty wise, but he was forcefully pushed into the goalie. It was obvious.
Yeah, he was pushed but he didn't exactly try to NOT hit Fleury in the face/chest. I've been in those situations 100's of times, it's reactional to get your hands up to protect your face, but he didn't really do that.
I still don't think it should be a penalty though, let Fleury suffer for Letang's stupidity.
you have to send a message at the end of a game like that. you can't let the penguins think that they can walk all over you. if he gets two so bit it it's not like we're going to miss him. what we need to do is stop taking stupid penalties. like harts knee to knee hit. and we need to get back into playing our game(what ever that is) and play more north-south hockey and less east-west type of stuff. i don't know when it happened but for some odd reason the carter line thinks they're on the red wings or something.
BS. Suspend Guerin too, then. That'd be a win for us at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards
Exactly, he just went and attacked Coburn after the faceoff as Coburn backed away, then bear hugged him and dropped to the ice. Yet he gets no instigator penalty, and Carcillo is the one with a hearing today.
I hate the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87
How about Guerin and the instigation against Coburn with 10 seconds to go?
Fair? OK? The NHL hates us, face it.
We are the bad boys of the NHL.
Did you guys see what happened? Right off the faceoff Coburn came down with a two-hander or Guerin's ankle. There's no way they should have called an instigator penalty on Guerin for that "fight".
Did you guys see what happened? Right off the faceoff Coburn came down with a two-hander or Guerin's ankle. There's no way they should have called an instigator penalty on Guerin for that "fight".
Except Coburn wasn't interested in fighting at all. Guerin dropped the gloves and went after him before Coburn was good to go.
That's instigation. A slash doesn't mean you get to fight like that.
'Course, I think the instigator penalty should be removed from the game...but that was obvious "instigation."
Hartnall had a horrible game penalty wise, but he was forcefully pushed into the goalie. It was obvious.
That's nice, and would actually be relevant if that was the rule interpretation in the NHL. However, it is not. The NHL requires the offensive player to make an active effort to avoid contact with the goalie in order to not get a penalty, and as soon as Hartnell felt the push, he went into Fleury wholeheartedly.
you have to send a message at the end of a game like that. you can't let the penguins think that they can walk all over you. if he gets two so bit it it's not like we're going to miss him. what we need to do is stop taking stupid penalties. like harts knee to knee hit. and we need to get back into playing our game(what ever that is) and play more north-south hockey and less east-west type of stuff. i don't know when it happened but for some odd reason the carter line thinks they're on the red wings or something.
The only message that was useful was the one Gagne sent.
Except Coburn wasn't interested in fighting at all. Guerin dropped the gloves and went after him before Coburn was good to go.
That's instigation. A slash doesn't mean you get to fight like that.
'Course, I think the instigator penalty should be removed from the game...but that was obvious "instigation."
Coburn slashed him on the ankle then Guerin gave him a few little pushes and Coburn then pushed him back and sent him back a good 5 feet. That's when Guerin came back and dropped the gloves. Someone has the be the first to drop the gloves in almost every fight, other than those ridiculous staged fights. They went back and forth for a good 4-5 seconds(which is a long time in hockey) before they fought. Its not like off the face off Coburn slashed Guerin and then Guerin instantly dropped the gloves and went after Coburn. Coburn just before that face off was trying to get after Guerin and the refs held him back. I dont think that was instigation at all.
Coburn slashed him on the ankle then Guerin gave him a few little pushes and Coburn then pushed him back and sent him back a good 5 feet. That's when Guerin came back and dropped the gloves. Someone has the be the first to drop the gloves in almost every fight, other than those ridiculous staged fights. They went back and forth for a good 4-5 seconds(which is a long time in hockey) before they fought. Its not like off the face off Coburn slashed Guerin and then Guerin instantly dropped the gloves and went after Coburn. Coburn just before that face off was trying to get after Guerin and the refs held him back. I dont think that was instigation at all.
Seriously? Have you not been watching the NHL since they instituted the instigator rule? 95% of the fights are those "staged" fights. And if you drop your gloves first and go after a guy that hasn't dropped his (what Guerin did), then that's "instigating" the fight.
Note: I'm not saying I have any real problem with what Guerin did, the game was chippy at that point and we'd just gotten a bit liberal with some of their players--the exact thing I'm sure the officials were thinking.
However, that was instigation by definition in the NHL rulebook. It's a stupid rule, and that is what you're reacting to...but you and I didn't write it as it is written, but the sport is supposedly governed by it.
I'd have to go back and watch it again, but during the game, my reaction was the same as Jester's ... it was textbook instigation. If Coburn slashed him, then it's 2 and 5 for Coburn, and 2, 5, and 10 for Guerin.
Yes. Carcillo shouldn't have been on the ice, especially since the league told each team not to send any messages in the dying minutes of any game.
Going to disagree, last 6 seconds chippy game, the pens aren't putting malkin, crosby, stall out there. We aren't putting any of our top 6 or giroux/briere out there. That leaves Ross, Powe, Carcillo. Powe had just been out there, not sure about carcillo/ross or who were the last 3 flyers on the ice. But Stevens didn't have a lot of options between the 3 guys in the box and the guys who were sent off.
Going to disagree, last 6 seconds chippy game, the pens aren't putting malkin, crosby, stall out there. We aren't putting any of our top 6 or giroux/briere out there. That leaves Ross, Powe, Carcillo. Powe had just been out there, not sure about carcillo/ross or who were the last 3 flyers on the ice. But Stevens didn't have a lot of options between the 3 guys in the box and the guys who were sent off.
It wasnt a chippy game until we made it one. Also the league sent out a note to all teams that last minute physical statements will not be accepted and will therefore be reprimanded for such actions.
Going to disagree, last 6 seconds chippy game, the pens aren't putting malkin, crosby, stall out there. We aren't putting any of our top 6 or giroux/briere out there. That leaves Ross, Powe, Carcillo. Powe had just been out there, not sure about carcillo/ross or who were the last 3 flyers on the ice. But Stevens didn't have a lot of options between the 3 guys in the box and the guys who were sent off.
The Pens weren't going to start anything. Why give the Flyers any extra motivation for Game 2? Powe and Knuble would have been fine. Hell, Richards and Gagne would have been fine for the last 6 seconds.
Two of the guys in the box were defensemen and the other was Asham so, yes, the Flyers had plenty of options for that final faceoff.
It wasnt a chippy game until we made it one. Also the league sent out a note to all teams that last minute physical statements will not be accepted and will therefore be reprimanded for such actions.
Doesn't change the fact that Carcillo was one of the few options to be out there at that time. You still don't put any of the top 6 or giroux/briere on the ice at that time.
Doesn't change the fact that Carcillo was one of the few options to be out there at that time. You still don't put any of the top 6 or giroux/briere on the ice at that time.
Why? What is Pittsburgh going to do? The game was finished, they had a powerplay and Coburn and Guerin already covered the shenanigans.
The Pens weren't going to start anything. Why give the Flyers any extra motivation for Game 2? Powe and Knuble would have been fine. Hell, Richards and Gagne would have been fine for the last 6 seconds.
Two of the guys in the box were defensemen and the other was Asham so, yes, the Flyers had plenty of options for that final faceoff.
If Gagne, Richards, or Knuble had gotten slased would you have said it was fine? Look I would rather risk a carcillo suspension than a top 6 injury. I don't care if it a 100X more likely carcillo gets suspended I put him out there before I put any of the top 6 or valuable players out there.
