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Holmgren: "kind of cavalier attitude where it's like, 'What's the big deal'"

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Old
04-17-2009, 01:00 PM
  #51
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you said, except the quesion regarding leadership. They have 4 points more than last season and finished one seed higher. That's hardly a remarkable improvement for a young team with another year's experience.

I'm not sure what you expected this season or this playoff, but you seem content that the team was basically a 0.500 hockey team in 2009. They blew a chance to have home ice by losing to teams they were supposed to defeat (Toronto and Ottawa) and when they knew that had only one more chance, they lost again to their greatest historical rival. Now they 'march' into the playoffs and promptly lay an egg in the first game and claim that the bounces didn't go their way.

Accounibility rests with the coaching staff to let these guys know their effort isn't good enough, but it also lies with the team leaders. The Flyers have a lot leaders by example, but they seem to lack a guy or two who will stand up and scare them into putting forth more effort.

If the Pens beat the Flyers I want it to be because they were better, not because the Flyers let them. Yes, last year Montreal heavily outplayed the Flyers and the Caps were probably the better team in most of the games that series, but I never questioned the effort. This year I've seen a lazy team meander their way towards a probable first round exit because no one has grabbed this team by the balls and made them play up to their own expectations. I'm sure they won't be happy with a first round loss, but it shouldn't be the GM that gets them to recognize that they're not doing enough to prevent it.
I think the team is better skilled this year, but just not a playoff winning type team. They are missing toughness that guys like Smith and Hatcher brought on defense. I would kill for a guy like Orpik on this blueline instead of Carle. I think Carle has more offensive skill and he might even be a better defender, but he doesn't have any toughness. In a playoff series, you have to fight for every inch, and right now it doesn't appear that the Flyers on offense or defense have enough "fighters". I believe, top to bottom, they have more skilled players than the Pens, but they need a better combination of skill and grit. The team didn't care more last year then this year it's just they had more less skilled "fighters" like Smith and Hatcher who made the other team fight in the corners and in front of the net for the puck. The guys on defense now, just aren't built that way. They aren't hitters, and they don't play big. They are too finesse. It's really, IMO, their biggest need in the offseason, getting a porch clearing, big hitting defenseman to give this defense some attitude.

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Old
04-17-2009, 01:02 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
here's my question then: who are they going to respect. they tuned hitchcock out, and he's one of the better technical coaches in the league (something we need). now we're saying they're tuning stevens out, who is much more of a players' coach. what kind of a coach is going to work?
Ted Nolan or Pat Burns.

Great question.

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04-17-2009, 01:10 PM
  #53
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Megadittoes on Ossi! He didn't commit a single turnover in Vancouver's first game. What Flyer defenseman can say that?

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04-17-2009, 01:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
OK, seriously, Im tired of hearing about how terrible it was to move Ossi. He was picked up by Vancouver and played just 3 games out of their last 20+ games of the season and averaged just over 9 minutes of ice time a game. If he was so damn good he would find a way to crack Vancouver's oh so great back line. You can say what you want about Upshall but Ossi, come on.
Vaananen is a very good insurance policy in case someone like Alberts or Jones decided to suck. Now we dont have that luxury. If Alberts sucks we have no choice but to throw him out there. Yeah there is Sbisa but I am not sure if hes ready for NHL playoff hockey yet.

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04-17-2009, 01:39 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Vaananen is a very good insurance policy in case someone like Alberts or Jones decided to suck. Now we dont have that luxury. If Alberts sucks we have no choice but to throw him out there. Yeah there is Sbisa but I am not sure if hes ready for NHL playoff hockey yet.
Alberts and Jones were born sucking

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04-17-2009, 01:50 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I think the team is better skilled this year, but just not a playoff winning type team. They are missing toughness that guys like Smith and Hatcher brought on defense. I would kill for a guy like Orpik on this blueline instead of Carle. I think Carle has more offensive skill and he might even be a better defender, but he doesn't have any toughness. In a playoff series, you have to fight for every inch, and right now it doesn't appear that the Flyers on offense or defense have enough "fighters". I believe, top to bottom, they have more skilled players than the Pens, but they need a better combination of skill and grit. The team didn't care more last year then this year it's just they had more less skilled "fighters" like Smith and Hatcher who made the other team fight in the corners and in front of the net for the puck. The guys on defense now, just aren't built that way. They aren't hitters, and they don't play big. They are too finesse. It's really, IMO, their biggest need in the offseason, getting a porch clearing, big hitting defenseman to give this defense some attitude.
I agree that the Flyers' defense lacks toughness. It could definitely impact how far the team goes in the playoffs this season. I don't agree that the issue has had significant impact up to this point. A lack of accountibility has had more of an effect on this season's Flyers than physicality from the blueline.

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04-17-2009, 01:52 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Alberts and Jones were born sucking
At least I wont have to look at Alberts in a Flyers sweater after this season.

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Old
04-17-2009, 02:07 PM
  #58
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I dont agree that the forwards are not tough or gritty enough .. or that the Flyers lack fowards to stand in front of the net, create havoc, and get 'dirty goals'. Not just Knuble, but also HArtnell (when he isnt in the box) are very good at this.

The biggest need is the porch-clearing super hard hitting Dman. Bottom line: Pittsburgh has spectacular offensive talent, and there is ZERO chance of beating them unless there are very intimidating Dmen that can flatten their forwards at every chance with good clean hits.

The DMen must be able to skate with them and punish them. A huge pylon is not what Flyers need.. we had that in Rathje.

Trading Carle or other Dmen for two beasts like that should be goal one in off-season. Timo and Coburnm can generate offense as long as they kney are pairefd with these beasts who will play a pure stay at home banger role.

The top 4 pairings have to be:

Beast No 1- Timonen
Beast No 2-Coburn

Dont ask me who these beasts should be: I havent looked into that. I just know that's what's needed.

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Old
04-17-2009, 02:12 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I think the team is better skilled this year, but just not a playoff winning type team. They are missing toughness that guys like Smith and Hatcher brought on defense. I would kill for a guy like Orpik on this blueline instead of Carle. I think Carle has more offensive skill and he might even be a better defender, but he doesn't have any toughness. .
Right you are! Carle has offensive skill, but so do Timo and Coburn. How much offense from the D does a team need?

In fact Timo and Coburn could be much better at offfense if they were paired with people better than Carle. 'Better', I mean, at the role you described. Banging, clearing, intimidating.

Orpik, JBo, Phaneuf, that type of guy.

Can dumping both Carle and Lupul generate enough funds for someone like that?

3 mil Carle, 4 mil Lupul= 7.0 mil?

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Old
04-17-2009, 02:23 PM
  #60
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PLEASE fire him.

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04-17-2009, 02:54 PM
  #61
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It shouldn't be up to the GM to come out and say this, the coach should be taking care of it in my view.

I think it's damning that Holmgren feels like he has to be the one to say this.

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04-17-2009, 03:01 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PF View Post
It shouldn't be up to the GM to come out and say this, the coach should be taking care of it in my view.

I think it's damning that Holmgren feels like he has to be the one to say this.
this

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04-17-2009, 03:12 PM
  #63
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Stevens is about as awesome as Herpes.

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04-17-2009, 03:19 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Stevens is about as awesome as Herpes.
I think herpes is better.....

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04-17-2009, 03:27 PM
  #65
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Crude, but you get the point.



Last edited by TheDrizzle81: 04-17-2009 at 03:49 PM.
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Old
04-17-2009, 03:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Alberts and Jones were born sucking
They weren't born at the same time, by any chance?

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04-17-2009, 03:41 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Crude, but you get the point.
Aww man that is ****ing funny.

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04-17-2009, 03:44 PM
  #68
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Pro-tip: Player attitudes and intangibles don't actually exist, and this is all a lot of nothing.

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Old
04-17-2009, 03:59 PM
  #69
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Starting to get a slight smell of Holmgren's displeasure with Stevens. It's certainly slight but i hope he's getting at what i think he is.

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04-17-2009, 04:04 PM
  #70
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If they end up getting swept in the play-offs I expect this team gets blown up.
Doubtful; a new head coach more than likely.

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Old
04-17-2009, 04:05 PM
  #71
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Everyone knows how I feel about the Upshall trade, so I will not even bring that subject up again. Homer has his work cut out for him this off season. I hope he has a plan to get the cap monkey off his back. This team is not that far away from being really good. Need more grit on D and up grade on the 4th line and goal. Good Luck.

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04-17-2009, 04:09 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
here's my question then: who are they going to respect. they tuned hitchcock out, and he's one of the better technical coaches in the league (something we need). now we're saying they're tuning stevens out, who is much more of a players' coach. what kind of a coach is going to work?
The thing is, the team didn't tune out Hitchcock. He was given a team with some real, real poor talent (Brian Savage being relied on to score, for example), and he still put that team high in the playoffs. Next season rolls around and he has even less talent and a team completely relying on young players. Not a good recipe for success.

Now, at the time i favored moving Hitchcock. But i will openly admit i was way wrong on this one. Watching this team play under Stevens forces the importance of a strong coach right in your face. I would kill to have Hitch back with this group of players, and i'm really embarassed to have sided with him being removed.

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Old
04-17-2009, 04:10 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by PF View Post
It shouldn't be up to the GM to come out and say this, the coach should be taking care of it in my view.

I think it's damning that Holmgren feels like he has to be the one to say this.
Definitely. I'm certain Holmgren and Stevens haven't conversed about this. Holmer called John's cellie but Stevens let it ring through to voice mail so Holmer got mad and decided to vent to the Philadelphia Daily News.


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04-17-2009, 04:11 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Definitely. I'm certain Holmgren and Stevens haven't conversed about this. Holmer called John's cellie but Stevens let it ring to voice mail so Holmer got mad and decided to vent to the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Calling players out in public isn't a good tactic to use too often (Torterella), but Steven's methods quite obviously aren't working

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04-17-2009, 04:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Calling players out in public isn't a good tactic to use too often (Torterella), but Steven's methods quite obviously aren't working
What we're seeing could be Good Cop, Bad Cop. Or not.

There has been something missing, that's for certain.

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