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Holmgren: "kind of cavalier attitude where it's like, 'What's the big deal'"

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Old
04-17-2009, 04:18 PM
  #76
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
The thing is, the team didn't tune out Hitchcock. He was given a team with some real, real poor talent (Brian Savage being relied on to score, for example), and he still put that team high in the playoffs. Next season rolls around and he has even less talent and a team completely relying on young players. Not a good recipe for success.

Now, at the time i favored moving Hitchcock. But i will openly admit i was way wrong on this one. Watching this team play under Stevens forces the importance of a strong coach right in your face. I would kill to have Hitch back with this group of players, and i'm really embarassed to have sided with him being removed.
Only problem with Hitchcock is that you don't know if a player like Mike Richards would have ever blossomed under him. Under Stevens, Richards and now Carter have really taken off.

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04-17-2009, 04:23 PM
  #77
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The fact that this is the ****ing playoffs should be enough reason for these players to start playing with some desperation/intensity. I don't get it. Maybe game one's result woke them up?

The only players that have seemed upset lately are Knuble and Briere. Maybe because they are older and want it more, who the hell knows.
All I know is that we need a team effort tonight, come on boys.

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04-17-2009, 04:25 PM
  #78
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Hitchcock made a few mistakes in his last full season. One of them was making Nedved a shutdown center, when he was at the point in his career where he wasn't all that interested in playing defense...in fact he was barely interested, period.

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04-17-2009, 04:28 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Hitchcock made a few mistakes in his last full season. One of them was making Nedved a shutdown center, when he was at the point in his career where he wasn't all that interested in playing defense...in fact he was barely interested, period.
Hitch definitely made some mistakes, but I still contend the blame for that season rests squarely on Clarkies shoulders.

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04-17-2009, 04:35 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
I'm with Jester on both very much disliking Stevens around the team and him not getting fired any time soon. I was naive to his history with the club, but when I found out I lost all hope for him getting fired any time soon. The Flyers take care of their own, no matter what.

I still want **** to go down this offseason though, even if no matter what happens (short of Stevens being fired which, well, see above) will still most likely leave me sad because what should be some of this teams best years will laze in the wake of mediocrity.
If Stevens is fired, it will not have been Paul Holmgren's decision.

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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Hitch definitely made some mistakes, but I still contend the blame for that season rests squarely on Clarkies shoulders.
Clarke made A LOT of mistakes coming out of the lockout, and I suppose Hitchcock tried the best he could. Hitchcock leaving, was not Clarke's decision obviously. I didn't disagree with his firing (I actually called it within a week of him being fired, despite the contract extension he got), I disagreed with giving full reigns to Stevens, who did nothing the rest of the season that showed he deserved to have the interim tag taken off before the end of it.

And remember, Holmgren was not their first choice.

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04-17-2009, 04:44 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Definitely. I'm certain Holmgren and Stevens haven't conversed about this. Holmer called John's cellie but Stevens let it ring through to voice mail so Holmer got mad and decided to vent to the Philadelphia Daily News.

You don't feel that Holmgren's decision to come out and say this publically is a poor reflection on Steven's ability to fix this on his own?

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04-17-2009, 04:53 PM
  #82
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Good. I hope Holmgren gets on Stevens, too.

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04-17-2009, 05:00 PM
  #83
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For the sake of discussion, let's pretend that Stevens is shown the door...who is his replacement?

- Probably a little bit of a hard ass? That 'type' of coach would make sense, yes?

Well, here's my issue. If these clowns are still upset that Upshall was traded, how do they respond when a hard ass coach comes in and takes their fun away? I'm not saying it won't work, perhaps it will...maybe it won't.

That remains to be seen.


Personally, I think some of the team has to go...and I can't imagine the reaction around here, because I'm not thinking of a 3rd liner, and we all saw (and still do see) the outcry for Upshall.

Can you imagine if it were a more skilled player?

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04-17-2009, 05:04 PM
  #84
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Opus, how many times do you want to change the team? This is a team that's overturned nearly half the roster - twice - since Holmgren and Stevens were given full reign of the team, and will likely have to do it a third time by this time next year.

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04-17-2009, 05:08 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Only problem with Hitchcock is that you don't know if a player like Mike Richards would have ever blossomed under him. Under Stevens, Richards and now Carter have really taken off.
yea, that's one thing. i also seem to remember richards making some kind of comment about not exactly liking playing for someone who wasn't a player and doesn't know what it's like (something like that). that's something to consider right there.

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04-17-2009, 05:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Opus, how many times do you want to change the team? This is a team that's overturned nearly half the roster - twice - since Holmgren and Stevens were given full reign of the team, and will likely have to do it a third time by this time next year.
By team, I mean a couple guys. And no, I'm not talking about Alberts and/or Jones. I'm talking about a big fish.

I have a strong sense that a few guys are way too complacent. Too much of a 'Country Club' atmosphere.

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04-17-2009, 05:14 PM
  #87
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The solution is simple, if the team doesn't have a desire to play every game it is time to change the players and/or the coaches. Also I can't help but feel that some of the problems stem from the lack of making a move at the deadline (physical D, a goalie, etc etc). Sometimes the best trades are not making any, but the inconsistent play of the team is rooted in something. That something is either, the coaches, the players, or the management.

The team started the season poorly and ended the season poorly, with very little changes in between.

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04-17-2009, 05:21 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
For the sake of discussion, let's pretend that Stevens is shown the door...who is his replacement?

- Probably a little bit of a hard ass? That 'type' of coach would make sense, yes?

Well, here's my issue. If these clowns are still upset that Upshall was traded, how do they respond when a hard ass coach comes in and takes their fun away? I'm not saying it won't work, perhaps it will...maybe it won't.
If things were working under a player's coach then I would be inclined to let them have their fun. But if they cannot get it up to play and take it seriously themselves, then someone more hardline needs to be brought in and help them take it seriously.

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04-17-2009, 05:22 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
For the sake of discussion, let's pretend that Stevens is shown the door...who is his replacement?

- Probably a little bit of a hard ass? That 'type' of coach would make sense, yes?

Well, here's my issue. If these clowns are still upset that Upshall was traded, how do they respond when a hard ass coach comes in and takes their fun away? I'm not saying it won't work, perhaps it will...maybe it won't.

That remains to be seen.
You act as if there are not examples of this phenomenon occurring in every sport...in the world. There is absolutely a cycle to the type of coach you hire.

Phillies:
Terry Francona: players coach...didn't really work out, but probably good for someone like Rollins when he first came into the league.

Larry Bowa: not a players coach...didn't really work out, but probably very good for some of the players that needed to get that edge into their system.

Charlie Manuel: players coach...perfect for the psyche of the team after Bowa. Back-to-back playoff appearances for the first time in my lifetime, and a WS win.

Player's coaches are good for certain teams...they aren't good for all teams. A young team like the Flyers needs someone who will kick 'em in the ass and harden them up for this level of hockey. One of the primary reasons the Hitch ousting irked me so much...the guy was ideal for someone like Richards, even if he didn't appreciate it at the time (which he clearly didn't).

Quote:
Personally, I think some of the team has to go...and I can't imagine the reaction around here, because I'm not thinking of a 3rd liner, and we all saw (and still do see) the outcry for Upshall.

Can you imagine if it were a more skilled player?
Well, given that you've had a pretty significant contingent pointing their finger directly at Lupul for some time, you might be surprised. My aggravation with trading Upshall was specifically because he WASN'T one of the more skilled players, who eat up more change.

If they'd traded Lupul I would have cheered the move.

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Old
04-17-2009, 05:28 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
By team, I mean a couple guys. And no, I'm not talking about Alberts and/or Jones. I'm talking about a big fish.

I have a strong sense that a few guys are way too complacent. Too much of a 'Country Club' atmosphere.
This is where I was really hoping the Flyers could manage bringing in Shanahan a few years ago, less so this year, because he would basically be a coach among the players. It's where they miss Sami Kapanen this year. I don't know if they need a coach who will yell and scream at guys, but they DO need a player who will do it, and that doesn't always have to be your captain.

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Old
04-17-2009, 06:31 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
By team, I mean a couple guys. And no, I'm not talking about Alberts and/or Jones. I'm talking about a big fish.

I have a strong sense that a few guys are way too complacent. Too much of a 'Country Club' atmosphere.
Well then if you have that strong a sense about it then name the big fish who are complacent.

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04-17-2009, 10:19 PM
  #92
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04-17-2009, 11:21 PM
  #93
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Did anyone see Daily News Live? It seemed like Holmgren was backing off of his comments. Michael Barkann brought it up and he said Barkann misinterpreted what he said. It seemed like he was downplaying the urgency thing. He thought their urgency from game 1 was okay.

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04-17-2009, 11:25 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Did anyone see Daily News Live? It seemed like Holmgren was backing off of his comments. Michael Barkann brought it up and he said Barkann misinterpreted what he said. It seemed like he was downplaying the urgency thing. He thought their urgency from game 1 was okay.
I know what I read. **** him and his lack of a backbone. Call out the team or not. cant do both Beavis.

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04-17-2009, 11:28 PM
  #95
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I know what I read. **** him and his lack of a backbone. Call out the team or not. cant do both Beavis.
This whole team is a cluster****.

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04-17-2009, 11:40 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Hitchcock made a few mistakes in his last full season. One of them was making Nedved a shutdown center, when he was at the point in his career where he wasn't all that interested in playing defense...in fact he was barely interested, period.
Hitch is one of the last of the old school guys. He wants everyone to backcheck and be responsible on the defensive end. I think Hitch was trying to force it on Nedved and obviously it failed.
Back to this whole thing with Holmer may not fire Stevens because they are "friends"
Honestly if that is the case, if he is letting friendship getting in the way of making a move then Holmer himself needs to go. Snider needs to fire him. that is crap.
Now I am not saying he should fire him tomorrow, but if Holmer being buddy buddy with Stevens is getting the way of making a fair assessment of things then he needs to go. If that is the case that would piss me off to no end.

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04-18-2009, 12:42 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Hitch is one of the last of the old school guys. He wants everyone to backcheck and be responsible on the defensive end. I think Hitch was trying to force it on Nedved and obviously it failed.
Back to this whole thing with Holmer may not fire Stevens because they are "friends"
Honestly if that is the case, if he is letting friendship getting in the way of making a move then Holmer himself needs to go. Snider needs to fire him. that is crap.
Now I am not saying he should fire him tomorrow, but if Holmer being buddy buddy with Stevens is getting the way of making a fair assessment of things then he needs to go. If that is the case that would piss me off to no end.
Snider had his own friendship issues with Clarke...not saying I think Clarke should have been canned (I don't), but the Flyers have a well established network of former players, etc. that they are very loyal to...from Snider on down (Holmgren being one of 'em).

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04-18-2009, 02:50 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
By team, I mean a couple guys. And no, I'm not talking about Alberts and/or Jones. I'm talking about a big fish.

I have a strong sense that a few guys are way too complacent. Too much of a 'Country Club' atmosphere.
BREAK UP THE BROMANCE

I don't care how, just do it.

Trade them, change the coach, bench them, whatever. Just get rid of these check-cashing, Abercrombie kids that race to a couch after each loss to play some Halo and drink Miller High Life.

I'm finished with them.

If I was Holmgren, I would've found the names of each player that was crying over Upshall, and I would've burnt their cute little Olde City condos to the ground. Get the **** out of this city.

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Old
04-18-2009, 03:43 AM
  #99
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What did I miss? Players butt hurt having Upshall traded?

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04-18-2009, 10:54 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
BREAK UP THE BROMANCE

I don't care how, just do it.

Trade them, change the coach, bench them, whatever. Just get rid of these check-cashing, Abercrombie kids that race to a couch after each loss to play some Halo and drink Miller High Life.

I'm finished with them.

If I was Holmgren, I would've found the names of each player that was crying over Upshall, and I would've burnt their cute little Olde City condos to the ground. Get the **** out of this city.
You realize of course that posters on a message board just made this up as an excuse for their poor play, right?

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