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Dynamo Moscow signs Omark and Harju

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Old
04-18-2009, 05:45 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
By all reports we heard, Omark was asking for rookie max and that's where I believe the negotiations broke down. Another thing I don't like about Omark is talking about contract negotiations and bashing the Oilers at this. Omark shouldn't have done that. Negotiations are supposed to be confidential and he talked about it publicly.


*PURE SPECULATION*
I would feel insulted if I were in his position and the Oilers offered $525,000 when another company is offering twice as much.

Really, it would come into a very simple discussion of "how much do you want me because these guys want me a lot."

It's obvious to me that the Oiler's didn't want him that much otherwise you make it happen. *edit* As Tambo has stated, his goal scoring ability isn't wanted, size and grit is more important at this point.

I've been in a *somewhat* similar situation where one company wanted to retain my services but wasn't willing to pay for it and another was. I left for the one willing to pay 15% more, not 100%. I have ZERO animosity towards Omark. His resume speaks for itself, and one company valued it significantly more than another.

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04-18-2009, 06:07 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How can we make room for Omark when we have blue chip prospects like Pouliot, Brule, Potulny, Shremp, JFJ, and Reddox?
We could buy out Horcoff, Hemsky, Penner, Cogs, Nilsson & Gagner. Done. Now all we have to do is plan the parade route, it doesn't even matter who our coach is next year.

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04-18-2009, 06:08 PM
  #603
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I'm jumping in late, is there an absolute final verdict on whether or not Omark is still an Oiler property?

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04-18-2009, 06:27 PM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metzen View Post
[/b]

*PURE SPECULATION*
I would feel insulted if I were in his position and the Oilers offered $525,000 when another company is offering twice as much.

Really, it would come into a very simple discussion of "how much do you want me because these guys want me a lot."

It's obvious to me that the Oiler's didn't want him that much otherwise you make it happen. *edit* As Tambo has stated, his goal scoring ability isn't wanted, size and grit is more important at this point.

I've been in a *somewhat* similar situation where one company wanted to retain my services but wasn't willing to pay for it and another was. I left for the one willing to pay 15% more, not 100%. I have ZERO animosity towards Omark. His resume speaks for itself, and one company valued it significantly more than another.
I have a problem with Omark. It's his comments and making the contract negotiations public. Players shouldn't be doing that as to me Omark is a whinning brat. Omark should just have kept his trap shut. He didn't deserve $875,000. He shouldn't be asking for the same amount that Gagner got. He got drafted in the fourth round and Gagner was drafted 6th overrall. There's a difference. These players have to realize you can't be asking for rookie max when they haven't played one game in the NHL. Well guess what, they're not getting it. Gagner didn't get his contract until after TC. Who does Omark think he is that he can bash an organization.

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04-18-2009, 10:11 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
I have a problem with Omark. It's his comments and making the contract negotiations public. Players shouldn't be doing that as to me Omark is a whinning brat. Omark should just have kept his trap shut. He didn't deserve $875,000. He shouldn't be asking for the same amount that Gagner got. He got drafted in the fourth round and Gagner was drafted 6th overrall. There's a difference. These players have to realize you can't be asking for rookie max when they haven't played one game in the NHL. Well guess what, they're not getting it. Gagner didn't get his contract until after TC. Who does Omark think he is that he can bash an organization.
Every post of yours is the same rhetoric about draft position being the only reason behind salary on entry level contracts. Gagner may have been drafted 6th overall, but a guy who comes right out of junior at 18 and is drafted 6th overall doesn't have much more of a pedigree than a guy who was drafted 4th round but had an MVP season in a well respected mens league in Europe. I'm not pretending to be a huge euro hockey fan but from what I've gathered the Sel is a top league, or maybe the top league in europe.

So really, Gagner dominates a bunch of teenagers and is warranted of a 1st round pick, or a late bloomer goes to Europe and dominates a league with much better and more seasoned competition. Whats the difference? Why is one guy rated lower based on his draft position when SINCE THEN he has proven himself?

This time last year I would have agreed with you, but since then Omark has proven himself with a great season and his stock has risen on par with a late 1st rounder, high 2nd rounder, IMO.

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04-18-2009, 10:17 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
I have a problem with Omark. It's his comments and making the contract negotiations public.
From my perspective/thoughts... It was *that* insulting that he would bring that out, because if it was that insulting to me, I would do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
Players shouldn't be doing that as to me Omark is a whinning brat. Omark should just have kept his trap shut. He didn't deserve $875,000. He shouldn't be asking for the same amount that Gagner got. He got drafted in the fourth round and Gagner was drafted 6th overrall.
I missed the part that explicitly stated what Omark was asking for. What was it exactly?

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There's a difference. These players have to realize you can't be asking for rookie max when they haven't played one game in the NHL. Well guess what, they're not getting it. Gagner didn't get his contract until after TC. Who does Omark think he is that he can bash an organization.
I haven't seen Omark bash the Oilers. He was disappointed with the contract negotiations with them. So would I if I had his resume.

Bashing the organization is what Bryzgalov did. Omark hasn't done anything but discuss his displeasure with how the organization has decided *and told him* that he wasn't going to be an important part because he wasn't big. I'm sure Gagner would be thrilled to have been drafted by the Oilers if they decided, suddenly, that being big was a criteria to making the big club next year.


Last edited by Metzen: 04-18-2009 at 10:23 PM.
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04-18-2009, 10:40 PM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metzen View Post
From my perspective/thoughts... It was *that* insulting that he would bring that out, because if it was that insulting to me, I would do the same thing.



I missed the part that explicitly stated what Omark was asking for. What was it exactly?



I haven't seen Omark bash the Oilers. He was disappointed with the contract negotiations with them. So would I if I had his resume.

Bashing the organization is what Bryzgalov did. Omark hasn't done anything but discuss his displeasure with how the organization has decided *and told him* that he wasn't going to be an important part because he wasn't big. I'm sure Gagner would be thrilled to have been drafted by the Oilers if they decided, suddenly, that being big was a criteria to making the big club next year.
What Omark did is bash the organization. A player has no right no matter if it's insulting or not to talk about contract negotiations in public. Contract negotiations are supposed to be confidential. Omark went over the line. What happens if Omark had gotten his way and then played like crap. Omark is pissed off because he didn't get his way. Omark didn't deserve what he was asking for. Why are the Oilers being bashed for this. We have only heard Omark's side of the story. We haven't heard the Oilers side of the story and if all the garbage Omark is spewing is actually true.

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04-18-2009, 11:05 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
We have only heard Omark's side of the story. We haven't heard the Oilers side of the story and if all the garbage Omark is spewing is actually true.
That's not Omark's fault that we haven't heard both sides.

I would love to see the Oiler's explain why they think being small isn't good enough to make the team next year.

I'm pretty sure Omark came out (my intuition again!) because he knew the Oiler's were in the wrong to talk to him the way they did.

There was no bashing of the Oiler's as far as I can see. How do you interpret he is bashing? Because he informed us of why he signed for Russia instead of us speculating?

Seems the fans would (did?) want an answer to why Russia instead of Edmonton and he gave it to them. Better to be honest then hide behind rhetoric.

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04-18-2009, 11:19 PM
  #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metzen View Post
That's not Omark's fault that we haven't heard both sides.

I would love to see the Oiler's explain why they think being small isn't good enough to make the team next year.

I'm pretty sure Omark came out (my intuition again!) because he knew the Oiler's were in the wrong to talk to him the way they did.

There was no bashing of the Oiler's as far as I can see. How do you interpret he is bashing? Because he informed us of why he signed for Russia instead of us speculating?

Seems the fans would (did?) want an answer to why Russia instead of Edmonton and he gave it to them. Better to be honest then hide behind rhetoric.
Omark needs to learn to keep his trap shut. Omark got more from the KHL than the Oilers were allowed to under the CBA. The maximum they could give him was $875,000 and Omark got $1.3M the first year and $1.4M the second year. The Oilers couldn't compete with that no matter what. Omark is not worth the rookie max and he shouldn't be criticizing the organization and talking about contract negotiations. Contract negotiations are confidential and should be kept at that.

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04-19-2009, 12:31 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
Omark needs to learn to keep his trap shut. Omark got more from the KHL than the Oilers were allowed to under the CBA. The maximum they could give him was $875,000 and Omark got $1.3M the first year and $1.4M the second year.
Why didn't the Oilers offer the max (if it's $875,000)? Seems Ryan-Smyth-esque to me to split hairs over a few hundred thousand of a player that will earn less than a million. Better to have over paid "established" players like Horcoff or Penner at $4M +? Who cares about a million at that range right?

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The Oilers couldn't compete with that no matter what.
It sounds like they didn't even try.

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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
Omark is not worth the rookie max and he shouldn't be criticizing the organization and talking about contract negotiations. Contract negotiations are confidential and should be kept at that.
How do you value his worth? Based on draft position?

I would rather value results than draft position and Omark has some very impressive results.

If you got *lucky* and drafted what *should have been* a first rounder in *ANY* round but the first they should become a priority. You are the type of person I would imagine who would have no problem signing Rita to a rookie max contract because of his draft pedigree as opposed to professional league results. Likewise, you'd probably rather trade Datsyuk/Zetterburg than give them any real money because they didn't go in the first round?

I wouldn't mind giving him a maxed out rookie contract. We're not talking 4 or 5 million here, we're talking <0.9M with maybe some bonuses that could put him in the ~1.4-1.5M range. Seems worth it to me if he could achieve those bonuses (an accomplishment of there own and thus worthy of the teams money).

I would rather keep young *potential* stars happy and sign them to incentive laden contracts, and *stars* on our team happy with incentive laden contracts then just out-right ridiculous-ness we have now.

A Horcoff signing of 4.5M with a 1.0M incentive per year is easier to swallow then 5.5M per year no matter what. Staios with 1.7M + 1.0M incentive, Moreau with 2.0M + 0.5M incentive. Might actually make players more accountable if it actually affects them. (Odds are no one would sign with me because no one wants to be accountable, but it would be HUGE in the new NHL ).



Anyways, my point is results should be EVERYTHING. NOT pedigree, not blood-lines, not one-off show-boating highlight reel abilities, not draft position.

I would take and pay for a 1000 Zetterburg's and Datsyuk's over Sergei Kuznetsov's, Craig Brunel's, Chris Ovingtonm's, and Paul Cabana's.

When you have a diamond in the rough you don't throw it back because it wasn't a big enough diamond.

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04-19-2009, 12:43 AM
  #611
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That article could also be BS. In the TSN article it didn't mention anything about how much the Oilers offered but only that they couldn't compete with what the KHL offered. That doesn't sound like $525,000 to me. It sounds like Omark is bashing the Oilers and the story could quite possibly not be true. We really need to find out the Oilers side and people need to stop criticizing the Oilers for not signing him until we find out what actually happened. Omark should not under any circumstances be talking about contract negotiations in public. They're supposed to be confidential. Omark should have kept his mouth shut. Since Omark basically bad-mouthed the Oilers organization, it's going to be hard for the Oilers to forgive Omark for future negotiations.

The Oilers couldn't come close to what Omark wanted since he wanted a guarantee to be in the NHL and wouldn't have gone to the AHL. He would have bolted to the KHL if he didn't make the team. $875,000 is quite a way from the $1.3M he's getting in the KHL.

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04-19-2009, 01:06 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
That article could also be BS. In the TSN article it didn't mention anything about how much the Oilers offered but only that they couldn't compete with what the KHL offered. That doesn't sound like $525,000 to me.
Straight from Omark:

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Originally Posted by Son of Krypton View Post
After Sweden's 1-2 loss against the Czech Republic yesterday, [URL="http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockeybladet/landslag/trekronor/article4925514.ab"]I don't regret it for a second. Edmonton wasn't that interested. They offered me a rookie salary of $525,000, which is way below the maximum salary for a rookie. I didn't even get the max in the AHL - if I would've ended up there. I got the feeling that they didn't really believe in me. If they'd told me they had plans for me, I wouldn't have hesitated for a second.
It was a quote from Omark. Do we choose not to believe players just because?


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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
It sounds like Omark is bashing the Oilers and the story could quite possibly not be true. We really need to find out the Oilers side and people need to stop criticizing the Oilers for not signing him until we find out what actually happened.
I would suspect the Oilers are keeping quiet because they know they screwed up. They didn't keep quiet before when **** hit the fan (see Comire).

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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
Omark should not under any circumstances be talking about contract negotiations in public. They're supposed to be confidential. Omark should have kept his mouth shut. Since Omark basically bad-mouthed the Oilers organization, it's going to be hard for the Oilers to forgive Omark for future negotiations.
Where did he bad mouth them?

Talking about a contact negotiation (no 's) is fine after the fact as far as I can see and has happened many time before. It's probably against some kind of rule to talk about on-going contract negotiations. The discussion between the Oilers and Omark has ended. Someone asked, "What happened? Why Russia?". He gave an answer. Why do you have a problem with this?

Why didn't Jagr sign with Edmonton? I guess he should be tar'ed and feather'ed for talking about what his negotiations existed of as well? What about Hossa talking about how much Edmonton wanted him, who was speaking to him and what the potential offer might have been?

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The Oilers couldn't come close to what Omark wanted since he wanted a guarantee to be in the NHL and wouldn't have gone to the AHL. He would have bolted to the KHL if he didn't make the team. $875,000 is quite a way from the $1.3M he's getting in the KHL.
From what Omark said, I would disagree with you. He wanted to hear that the organization had plans for him. To him, the Oiler's did a VERY poor job of communicating that had plans for him (if they did at all). That's not Omark's fault. That's the Oiler's.

This is no different than the Oiler's leaking Ryan Smith missing his "cut" by a $100K. This is my last rebuttal, feel free to repeat your last post again. Too much of, and too late for this:


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04-19-2009, 01:34 AM
  #613
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This is my last rebuttal, feel free to repeat your last ten posts again. Too much of, and too late for this:

Fixed for you!

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04-19-2009, 11:28 AM
  #614
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Omark

Of course the kid went to the place that wanted him the most, of course he's answering the media's questions and I give him full marks for being honest (KLolini gets nO Marks ) . Would people rather he offered no reasons for choosing the KHL and left us Oiler fans (and the rest of the world) wondering? Tough titty for KLolini if the truth gets out.

I hope he has a great season in the KHL and I hope we get him in Oilers silks. If we don't, we know who to blame.

I don't see a problem with LO's decision here, at all. Anyone would have done the same thing in his position.


Guy who asks stupid questions: "Hey Linus, do you want to make $1.3M a year on a high-level pro team that wants you to play big minutes or make less than $65k and play in the biggest grinder factory in the known universe?"

Omark: "Well, I hate money and I don't really like scoring goals so it's an easy decision for me. I'm goin' to Bucknyland."

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04-19-2009, 11:47 AM
  #615
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You don't give every player what he wants. That's what the problem was with that idiot Comrie. They gave in and then he wanted more than he was worth. Teams shouldn't be giving rookie max for every rookie. Why whould he get more than Gagner who was drafted 6th overall? It doesn't work that way.
It only looks like it works that way because of how inept the Oilers picks have been managed for yrs. Successful teams have not been bound and tied in kryptonite to this logic.

A player being picked #1 overall doesn't mean they will even make the NHL. A pick is just simply a speculation of what the player might become. Any scout will (and does say if you read any hockey articles reflecting on picks) that you never know what any player will do against men. We have seen what Omark can do against men.

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04-19-2009, 12:14 PM
  #616
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You don't give every player what he wants. That's what the problem was with that idiot Comrie. They gave in and then he wanted more than he was worth. Teams shouldn't be giving rookie max for every rookie. Why whould he get more than Gagner who was drafted 6th overall? It doesn't work that way.
You do remember that Comrie used the college-to-whl loophole to get early ufa status and had the Oilers over a barrel right? KLo had to sign him or let him walk for nothing and in the long run we got good use out of Comrie while he was here and then we were offered Corey Perry and a 1st for him in trade when he left. Signing Comrie wasn't as bad for the Oil as you make it sound.

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04-19-2009, 12:36 PM
  #617
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Omark

Of course the kid went to the place that wanted him the most, of course he's answering the media's questions and I give him full marks for being honest (KLolini gets nO Marks ) . Would people rather he offered no reasons for choosing the KHL and left us Oiler fans (and the rest of the world) wondering? Tough titty for KLolini if the truth gets out.

I hope he has a great season in the KHL and I hope we get him in Oilers silks. If we don't, we know who to blame.

I don't see a problem with LO's decision here, at all. Anyone would have done the same thing in his position.


Guy who asks stupid questions: "Hey Linus, do you want to make $1.3M a year on a high-level pro team that wants you to play big minutes or make less than $65k and play in the biggest grinder factory in the known universe?"

Omark: "Well, I hate money and I don't really like scoring goals so it's an easy decision for me. I'm goin' to Bucknyland."
With due respect to the posters criticising the Oilers for not signing Omark at this time (particularly the Swedish fans whose convictions that he's the real goods that I won't doubt), I think we've got to give the Oilers some benefit of the doubt.

The fact of the matter is that the Oilers are not in a good cap situation right now, particularly looking ahead to 2010-11. The Oilers also have some important holes to fill in the top six forwards when the UFA market this summer has the prospects of having an unusually large number of players make it to July 1 and a lot more competition amongst players for available dollars - particularly for deals longer than a year.

Omark may be a really good NHL calibre top six forward, but to bank on this coming to pass right away would be foolish IMO. As a result, and given Omark's defected player status, it's not at all a bad risk/reward proposition to have Omark play in a top league at least one more year and check back with him when his first KHL season is done.

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04-19-2009, 12:49 PM
  #618
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With due respect to the posters criticising the Oilers for not signing Omark at this time (particularly the Swedish fans whose convictions that he's the real goods that I won't doubt), I think we've got to give the Oilers some benefit of the doubt.

The fact of the matter is that the Oilers are not in a good cap situation right now, particularly looking ahead to 2010-11. The Oilers also have some important holes to fill in the top six forwards when the UFA market this summer has the prospects of having an unusually large number of players make it to July 1 and a lot more competition amongst players for available dollars - particularly for deals longer than a year.

Omark may be a really good NHL calibre top six forward, but to bank on this coming to pass right away would be foolish IMO. As a result, and given Omark's defected player status, it's not at all a bad risk/reward proposition to have Omark play in a top league at least one more year and check back with him when his first KHL season is done.
You're 100% right, and as long as the Oilers still hold Omark's rights for 2010/'11 KLo's decision is a-ok with me. KLo actually did him a favour by not signing him if he won't make the top 6 here, I have no doubt the kid would eventually succumb to the grinderness of our ahl team if he played there for a full season. Either our ahl team is a prospect graveyard or our scouts are barooooootaallllll.

I just think that Omark made the right decision for himself and I don't think that he's doing anyone in the Oilers' org any injustice with what he's saying as long as it's all true (and I don't think anyone doubts him).

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04-19-2009, 02:50 PM
  #619
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You're 100% right, and as long as the Oilers still hold Omark's rights for 2010/'11 KLo's decision is a-ok with me. KLo actually did him a favour by not signing him if he won't make the top 6 here, I have no doubt the kid would eventually succumb to the grinderness of our ahl team if he played there for a full season. Either our ahl team is a prospect graveyard or our scouts are barooooootaallllll.

I just think that Omark made the right decision for himself and I don't think that he's doing anyone in the Oilers' org any injustice with what he's saying as long as it's all true (and I don't think anyone doubts him).
You do realize that KLo is no longer the GM. Tambellini is the GM or did you miss the PC on Wednesday. It would have been Tambellini's decisision would it not. KLo is not the GM anymore.

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04-19-2009, 10:16 PM
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You do realize that KLo is no longer the GM. Tambellini is the GM or did you miss the PC on Wednesday. It would have been Tambellini's decisision would it not. KLo is not the GM anymore.
Narnia, is that you in the picture? Because I always suspected you of being a little boy.

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04-19-2009, 10:19 PM
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You do realize that KLo is no longer the GM. Tambellini is the GM or did you miss the PC on Wednesday. It would have been Tambellini's decisision would it not. KLo is not the GM anymore.
Kevin Lowe makes the final decisions. Would you like me to dig up the quotes?

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04-19-2009, 10:38 PM
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Open question to some of you.

Do you stand on the sidewalk and argue with your local neighbourhood cat lady for hours on end?

I've never seen so much misplaced energy in my life!

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04-19-2009, 10:44 PM
  #623
dashingsilverfox*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Open question to some of you.

Do you stand on the sidewalk and argue with your local neighbourhood cat lady for hours on end?

I've never seen so much misplaced energy in my life!



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Old
04-19-2009, 11:22 PM
  #624
40oz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
DSF, I didnt know you were a fan of Banksy? How Hip

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Old
04-19-2009, 11:24 PM
  #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
DSF, I didnt know you were a fan of Banksy? How Hip
The problem with young people is they think they thought of everything first.

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