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Old
04-20-2009, 04:27 AM
  #76
grrrreg
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
The media are there 'cause there's enough people that read them, watch them and listen to them. How the hell is a radio station able to go from a generalist radio to an all sports radio? 'Cause there are people listening to it. How can this province have 3 freakin Sports show at night? 'Cause people are watching. So the real problem are the fans. Should we then stop to like our team so much? We should start blaming ourselves to be so crazy about that team and frankly, it maybe time we do so.
I only partially agree with you.
I agree that you can't forget that the media coverage of hockey is what it is because there's a huge audience, and a huge demand behind it. But at the same time, there's no need to blame the public for this.

I think that things are just the way they are. It won't change. The Canadiens have the good fortune of having a huge fanbase that will follow them no matter what. This is a huge asset for the team, just ask the franchises that are struggling to fill their buildings. The team is making lots of money because of this. They can also spend to the limit year in and year out. That's not something all franchises can do.
But of course, with this comes the negative side: the level of attention is huge, and yes, the media often go overboard.

You just need to deal with this. Every franchise has its drawbacks. For some, it's difficult to attract UFA's because their budget is tight, for others, it's because the city is not very sexy and not many players want to live there. In Montreal, the media controversies are not helping, but it's a reflexion of the fact that there is a huge fanbase, which is a positive for the franchise.

As was already said, some players will thrive under these conditions, some others won't. That's just the way it is.

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04-20-2009, 06:45 AM
  #77
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The media is the reason ****.

On 110%, the night of the 2007 draft they mocked the names of McDonagh and Pacioretty because we didn't pick Esposito or Perron. How would you feel as an 18 year old kid, just reazling your dream of being drafted into the NHL and have the media of the team that drafted you already bash you because you don't speak French.

If those so called journalists would actually do their homework and actually learn about possible players the Habs can draft they wouldn't be so cruel and so ignorants when the time comes that we don't pick the French boy. How many times on RDS, do you have their so called analysts have no clue who the Habs drafted and only Stephane Leroux has some kind of small notion. The media here is lame, they are like paparazzis in hollywood and like to stir the pot. Fans love hockey here true, but then why not propose some interviews with Habs prospects, do interviews with Habs draft picks but no, instead they prefer to call out two 18 year olds because they don't speak French.

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04-20-2009, 06:55 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
PK's words?? Get your head out of the sand. Our insane and dirty media coverage is common knowledge throughout the hockey world. Do you think if Joe Thornton had a serious eye injury, that Habarazzi would sneak into his hospital room and take a picture with a huge flash?

I fixed it for 'ya

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04-20-2009, 06:56 AM
  #79
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This really annoys me though. Imagine these guys in another sport, like soccer in Europe or the NFL. Or imagine the attention they would get playing for the Yankees. I mean you decide on professional sports as a career choice, this stuff is expected.

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04-20-2009, 07:20 AM
  #80
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Now the UFAs just need to come out and say it and the circle will be complete, can't blame them look at Koivu, hes given his life to this team and is still treated like garbage.

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Originally Posted by Peacock View Post
This really annoys me though. Imagine these guys in another sport, like soccer in Europe or the NFL. Or imagine the attention they would get playing for the Yankees. I mean you decide on professional sports as a career choice, this stuff is expected.
Yeah well here is where your wrong there are 29 other teams in the NHL fighting to compete for the stanley cup and none of them has to filter through this crap like the players on Montreal.


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Old
04-20-2009, 07:25 AM
  #81
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Here I have a solution : Maybe we should suggest to people to start speaking english so the language barrier's gone. Then we should start to convince people to follow more baseball so that less people watch hockey = less medias. Media's pressure gone. Then we should actually convince our government to offer less services and lower taxes so that we can attract UFA.

Imagine, we could be a team like.... I don't know.... Toronto Maple Leafs, wouldn't it be so great !

OR we could start to draft better, develop our players better, making better team decision and build a better team. That's the real issues here, others issues are just excuses and have nothing to do with our success or lack of success.
Keep burying your head in the sand. Socially, this is the worst city in the NHL to play for. Schooling and taxation are two huge reasons. Throw into that a media/fanbase that oversteps the boundaries of good taste and you a have the least desireable option for impending UFA's

Yes, you can build through the draft, but you still need to compliment those players and as we have seen, trading is not as easy as it used to be.

When Lecavalier gets louder cheers than the hometown players at the All-Star game, then there is something seriously wrong.If Vinny actually wanted to play here, he would not have signed an 11 year extension with T Bay.I don't want him here, because the media would rip him to shreds the minute something went wrong.I would go as far to bet that Montreal is on his list no-trade teams.

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Old
04-20-2009, 07:35 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Drafting well and developing effectively is all fine and dandy but how do we compete against teams that....
a) draft well,
b) develop effectively,
c) and sign UFA's who aren't scared of their media core invading their privacy and spreading rumours?

We can excel at 'a' and 'b' but the free agency component ('c') is a definite disadvantage that we face. Everything isn't equal for us and it's largely because of the crazed media core. I'd love to see us land a Chara or a Savard but those top tier UFA's just won't come here. It will be worse than ever after this season's disgrace (i.e. Darkest Day In History).
Well since that we're suppose to have the best in the business, well you can compete against teams that draft well by drafting better. Which clearly we are doing as far as quantity is concerned. Quality though, that's another story.

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The media is the reason ****.

On 110%, the night of the 2007 draft they mocked the names of McDonagh and Pacioretty because we didn't pick Esposito or Perron. How would you feel as an 18 year old kid, just reazling your dream of being drafted into the NHL and have the media of the team that drafted you already bash you because you don't speak French.

If those so called journalists would actually do their homework and actually learn about possible players the Habs can draft they wouldn't be so cruel and so ignorants when the time comes that we don't pick the French boy. How many times on RDS, do you have their so called analysts have no clue who the Habs drafted and only Stephane Leroux has some kind of small notion. The media here is lame, they are like paparazzis in hollywood and like to stir the pot. Fans love hockey here true, but then why not propose some interviews with Habs prospects, do interviews with Habs draft picks but no, instead they prefer to call out two 18 year olds because they don't speak French.
True that this was plain stupid and when it comes to the draft, our journalists are probably the dumbest in the business. But I just can't believe that McDo and MaxPac came across what was said.

Thing is, there are still players that loves this city despite this pressure. We did trade one centerman who is the scum of the universe, but that isn't doing too badly and despite his problems with 1 guy on the team, was totally stunned by the trade and needed some time to get over it, and I'm not sure he is over it. You are talking about prospects, well I know that when PK Subban was picked, he was glad to picked by the Habs. Despite the freakin media pressure. I know that Danick Paquette was almost to tears when the Habs were ready to pick and didn't. I know a Dany Massé who had offers and chose the Habs. Hamrlik is not a star but should be a solid defenceman that was glad to come in a hockey environment. I know a Kovalev that despite a Mathias Brunet story still want to play here. I know a Saku Koivu who's happy to wear the C and despite the agenda against him, did not ask to be move yet and people even think he'll stay when he was a chance to move. I know a Brisebois that despite some media bashing, wanted to come back. etc....

The media is not the best by far. They are crossing the lines in some occasions. But to give them all the blame is giving people the possibility of forgetting the management's responsability and even the players' own responsability. If having the media out there means that you'll conduct yourself like a real professionnal, well so be it. So if you have nothing to blame yourself for, you shouldn't be worried to play here.

I would have love to see the newspaper pay for the picture they did to Koivu and Demers at the time. I would love to see newspapers being sued for discrimination or false articles, it's about time that they are responsible as well. But if you're again ready to put all the blame on them, well close the team and move them. 'Cause hearing some, seems to mean that we'll never do anything because of that.

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Old
04-20-2009, 07:40 AM
  #83
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this is nothing new.

It's a reality for our team. Some people will want to play in Montreal. Some people will not (maybe more people will not).

This has been an issue with the Montreal Canadiens since I started watching hockey. Fact is you can't begrudge players who've earned Free Agency rights for their choices of where they want to play. And no matter what was done to level the paying field (if it's even a real disadvantage) some players would still pass on us.

It's very seldom that top-tier Free Agents hit the open market (even less under the current CBA). There are not too many to go around. We've had some fairly accomplished players sign here. Free Agency is for the players (negotiated through CBA's) and there is only 1 winner and every other team looses when one signs, especially an elite FA.

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04-20-2009, 07:48 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DougHarvey View Post
When Lecavalier gets louder cheers than the hometown players at the All-Star game, then there is something seriously wrong.If Vinny actually wanted to play here, he would not have signed an 11 year extension with T Bay.I don't want him here, because the media would rip him to shreds the minute something went wrong.I would go as far to bet that Montreal is on his list no-trade teams.
The media would rip him? You mean the same media that never says how Brisebois is struggling? The same media who could not believe that Bégin was traded, you almonst thought that they had traded the messiah? The same media that keeps saying that Lapierre and Latendresse are the greatest and that don't mention how they are struggling in these playoffs? You seriously think the french media will be all over Lecavalier? They would find that it's their linemates' fault way before they'll be on his back.

Sure it's all about expectations and he won't probably come because after this other dissapointing season, he knows that those expectations are going to be higher again next year. So he will not come here, unless he knows who is going to play with him. And with the tons of UFA's, well clearly he's not going to know before July 1st, until we sign everybody back or if we do tons of trades during draft day. Unless this happens, he will not be a Habs.

As far as his 11-year contract, well clearly his #1 choice was TBay and not here. But with everything that had happened and if the trust is broken, could it be possible that Montreal is #2?

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04-20-2009, 07:57 AM
  #85
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Cry Cry Cry..

This has to be the most pathetic thread ever.

I guess Hollywood actors will have to move to Africa because there are way too many journalists who are invading their privacy and put pressure on them for their next movie.

The media excuse is for losers.
Especially since the problem is not that big here.
There is no paparazzi here and most players don't even watch or read french media.

What a load of BS.

Money, taxes, canadian dollar, weather, quality of the lineup...are the real problems. Look at the other canadian cities..the situation is pretty much similar....is it because of the media too ? oh please.

I don't believe one second that a star player will not come here because of the media. Not one millisecond.

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Old
04-20-2009, 08:02 AM
  #86
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Simple question.

Say you guys would have a kid playing hockey. Say he's 20, went undrafted but is dominating his league right now and most teams want him signed.

He comes to you and asks for advice. All contracts offered are entry league + standard bonuses. No team can guarantee NHL ice time. Among his options there is also Montreal.

Would you push him into accepting the offer from Montreal ?

If your answer is yes then...well, no point in continuing the discussion.

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04-20-2009, 08:06 AM
  #87
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Simple question.

Say you guys would have a kid playing hockey. Say he's 20, went undrafted but is dominating his league right now and most teams want him signed.

He comes to you and asks for advice. All contracts offered are entry league + standard bonuses. No team can guarantee NHL ice time. Among his options there is also Montreal.

Would you push him into accepting the offer from Montreal ?

If your answer is yes then...well, no point in continuing the discussion.
and what would you do the first time your son was called a rapist/drug dealer or pedophile?

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04-20-2009, 08:12 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Cry Cry Cry..

This has to be the most pathetic thread ever.

I guess Hollywood actors will have to move to Africa because there are way too many journalists who are invading their privacy and put pressure on them for their next movie.

The media excuse is for losers.
Especially since the problem is not that big here.
There is no paparazzi here and most players don't even watch or read french media.

What a load of BS.

Money, taxes, canadian dollar, weather, quality of the lineup...are the real problems. Look at the other canadian cities..the situation is pretty much similar....is it because of the media too ? oh please.

I don't believe one second that a star player will not come here because of the media. Not one millisecond.
Sorry man - but your arguments are poor.


- Hollywood stars need and feed the media attention (even tabloid rumors) since it greatly helps them sell their stuff.

- When reporters stalk a player's house to take pics of him and see his injuries. When they break into a hospital room to take a pic of an injured captain. When a rumor based on an "undisclosed friend" of Kovalev makes first page - then yes, there are paparazzi in this town.

- Players do read media including the french one. All the insiders will tell you (last one I heard was Pat Burns). If you were playing in Russia you would also have a friend translate russian articles about you.
Also - players nowadays are wired to the net - they check boards - there were proofs of them checking these boards even.

- When you compare Montreal with, say, Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver, you will see those have it a lot easier to sign UFAs. They share the weather issue (maybe not the Nucks), the canadian dollar issue and partially the (not)winning line-up. The differences are taxes, media and language issues.
Anyway - as I said media is one of the reasons not the only one. The problem is that there are no real reasons for players to want to come here.

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Old
04-20-2009, 08:15 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DougHarvey View Post
and what would you do the first time your son was called a rapist/drug dealer or pedophile?
My own answer would have been a definite NO, in case you did not get it. I love my children and I want only the best in life for them.

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04-20-2009, 08:21 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post

The media is not the best by far. They are crossing the lines in some occasions. But to give them all the blame is giving people the possibility of forgetting the management's responsability and even the players' own responsability. If having the media out there means that you'll conduct yourself like a real professionnal, well so be it. So if you have nothing to blame yourself for, you shouldn't be worried to play here.
I agree 100% with you, but the the media blaming didn't come from the fans, it came from the players... We all know as fans that the media isn't the only problem, but if the players don't want to come here because they don't want to deal with the media, and we have the proofs that it happened, then it's a problem... When you have ex-players, quebecers, rookies, coach, etc. saying that they wouldn't come to Montreal to not have to deal with the media, I guess we can start to believe that's it's a big factor in their decision of not coming here...

I understand that if the players would be professionals, they would have nothing to fear, but how many are there? Do you really think that we wouldn't ear about Ovechkin's night life if he was playing here because he would score 50 goals?

It's true, for perfect players, Montreal is the perfect place, but there are not many perfect players, and players like Crosby are hard to get... We do get older players, once they stop partying, cause they know that no bad stories will get out, but they are older... Younger ones want to party and live the life of millionaires, so they prefer to stay far from Montreal media.

The problem with the media is they want to have the power on the organization. When I ear Ron saying that he has to do this and that because he is "the representative of the fans (aka us)". There's a huge difference between analyzing things and blaming people, most of the time, in the media, we only ear journalist, or I would prefer, entertainers, blaming players, the coach or the gm, even the owner or the president, because they seem to know better, and because the thing they have to since they are the voice of the fans... And the one who shout louder gets more air time...

When I heard, this week, on 110%, following the article on Higgins, saying that he was a moron for saying what he said, and because of that, they said in front of what, 200 000 listeners ?, that Higgins has the reputation of not tipping well in bars or restaurants. How is that hockey related... They are always crossing the line, and things like that give a bad reputation to Montreal...

That's sad but true...


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Old
04-20-2009, 08:55 AM
  #91
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Keep burying your head in the sand. Socially, this is the worst city in the NHL to play for. Schooling and taxation are two huge reasons. Throw into that a media/fanbase that oversteps the boundaries of good taste and you a have the least desireable option for impending UFA's

Yes, you can build through the draft, but you still need to compliment those players and as we have seen, trading is not as easy as it used to be.

When Lecavalier gets louder cheers than the hometown players at the All-Star game, then there is something seriously wrong.If Vinny actually wanted to play here, he would not have signed an 11 year extension with T Bay.I don't want him here, because the media would rip him to shreds the minute something went wrong.I would go as far to bet that Montreal is on his list no-trade teams.
Things is right now, we only see the bad side of the medias, passions, etc. of this city for hockey because of the on-ice results of this year. Last year all was fine, players played greats, medias was all positive (for the most part), fans were excited. I don't disagree with what being said here : there is a special situation in Montreal. What I don't understand is the people complaining about it EVERYDAY like it was all new or something. Passion for hockey always been there. It can be a pain in the ass, but it can an advantage too. The Montreal Canadiens are not the Florida Panthers, sometime accepting realities is better than whining about things you don't have control over. So as for the burying my head in the sand, I think I see the situation pretty clearly, BUT, I do not whine about every aspect that make the Montreal market a unique one just because my team is not doing well right now like some of you does.

I believe hockey factors has more to do with the 2009-2019 meltdown than Jean-Charles Lajoies and his croonies, if you believe the contrary, then we will have to disagree.

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04-20-2009, 08:56 AM
  #92
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Well since that we're suppose to have the best in the business, well you can compete against teams that draft well by drafting better. Which clearly we are doing as far as quantity is concerned. Quality though, that's another story.
.
Why are we supposed to have the best in the business? There are 29 other teams out there all trying to get the best staff. Why and how would you expect Montreal to have the best in the business?

I think Gainey and Timmins are well above average in drafting and developing, but I don't think I would consider them the best in the business.
With that said, I don't have a problem with that.

But even if we had the best in the business, luck plays such a huge part in drafting, that the best in the business really doesn't have that much of an advantage over the others.

You can't expect to draft that much better than other teams that you won't need to rely on Free Agent signings and trades. Especially when you have other teams that suck and manage to grab all the best picks every year.

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04-20-2009, 09:05 AM
  #93
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The media is the reason ****.

On 110%, the night of the 2007 draft they mocked the names of McDonagh and Pacioretty because we didn't pick Esposito or Perron. How would you feel as an 18 year old kid, just reazling your dream of being drafted into the NHL and have the media of the team that drafted you already bash you because you don't speak French.

If those so called journalists would actually do their homework and actually learn about possible players the Habs can draft they wouldn't be so cruel and so ignorants when the time comes that we don't pick the French boy. How many times on RDS, do you have their so called analysts have no clue who the Habs drafted and only Stephane Leroux has some kind of small notion. The media here is lame, they are like paparazzis in hollywood and like to stir the pot. Fans love hockey here true, but then why not propose some interviews with Habs prospects, do interviews with Habs draft picks but no, instead they prefer to call out two 18 year olds because they don't speak French.
The only weapon we have is to choose what we watch and who we listen too, unless people start boycotting shows like 110%, they will continue to air in the form that it is in now....STOP WATCHING!!!!

Oooh and another thing...watch the draft on TSN, for starters the coverage is a million time better than on RDS and that will eventually force RDS to have some people who are better prepared to be on their panel.

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04-20-2009, 09:12 AM
  #94
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I believe hockey factors has more to do with the 2009-2019 meltdown than Jean-Charles Lajoies and his croonies, if you believe the contrary, then we will have to disagree.
Please tell me this is a typo and not 10 more years of this.

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04-20-2009, 09:18 AM
  #95
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Keep burying your head in the sand. Socially, this is the worst city in the NHL to play for. Schooling and taxation are two huge reasons. Throw into that a media/fanbase that oversteps the boundaries of good taste and you a have the least desireable option for impending UFA's

Yes, you can build through the draft, but you still need to compliment those players and as we have seen, trading is not as easy as it used to be.

When Lecavalier gets louder cheers than the hometown players at the All-Star game, then there is something seriously wrong.If Vinny actually wanted to play here, he would not have signed an 11 year extension with T Bay.I don't want him here, because the media would rip him to shreds the minute something went wrong.I would go as far to bet that Montreal is on his list no-trade teams.
The worst? Like the #1 absolute worst?

I guess you've visited every other city in the NHL to have that kind of opinion. There are negatives and positives to playing in every city. Lecavalier didn't want to come here a few years ago because the team was a mess, same with Tanguay and Laraque btw..they've all sinced changed their way of thinking because the team was moving in the right direction. Playing on a winner is the #1 selling point...Look at the Red Wings, if you've visited and/or lived in Detroit you would soon find out that Montreal ain't so bad, but why do players flock there or stay at a home town discount??? WINNING!!! They are known to be contenders for the cup every single year. Another example is the Senators...10 years ago nobody wanted to go there..when they became a contender, players all of a sudden wanted to play there.

We just have to get over the hump and become regular contenders and you'll see how all of a sudden taxes and/or the media won't be such an issue (obviously doing that as we can see is not that easy).

P.S. Ever been to Newark?? LOL!

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04-20-2009, 09:36 AM
  #96
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The worst? Like the #1 absolute worst?

I guess you've visited every other city in the NHL to have that kind of opinion. There are negatives and positives to playing in every city. Lecavalier didn't want to come here a few years ago because the team was a mess, same with Tanguay and Laraque btw..they've all sinced changed their way of thinking because the team was moving in the right direction. Playing on a winner is the #1 selling point...Look at the Red Wings, if you've visited and/or lived in Detroit you would soon find out that Montreal ain't so bad, but why do players flock there or stay at a home town discount??? WINNING!!! They are known to be contenders for the cup every single year. Another example is the Senators...10 years ago nobody wanted to go there..when they became a contender, players all of a sudden wanted to play there.

We just have to get over the hump and become regular contenders and you'll see how all of a sudden taxes and/or the media won't be such an issue (obviously doing that as we can see is not that easy).

P.S. Ever been to Newark?? LOL!
What? Like who? Mike Comrie? Jason Smith? Martin Gerber?

I would be willing to bet that the Habs are one of the 5 least attractive teams to sign with in the NHL (I'd guess third least attractive behind Long Island, and maybe a team like Columbus or Atlanta). Winning can a big reason why a UFA would want to sign, if you're a perennial contender like Detroit. It also might be a reason to not want to sign, if the team is consistently awful (NYI, Columbus, Atlanta, Toronto).

For the other 20-25 or so teams, winning doesn't play as large of a role in the decision, as we saw when Briere signed with last place Philly.

If you take the winning aspect out of the picture, I'd confidently say that Montreal is the least attractive of all NHL cities to sign with.

Why would you want to deal with our taxes, our media, the french/english issues, and the weather when you really don't have to.

Although, it's their career, hockey is only one part of these guys' life. They'll not only go where they can win. They'll go where it's best for them and their family.

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04-20-2009, 10:06 AM
  #97
habaholic
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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
What? Like who? Mike Comrie? Jason Smith? Martin Gerber?

I would be willing to bet that the Habs are one of the 5 least attractive teams to sign with in the NHL (I'd guess third least attractive behind Long Island, and maybe a team like Columbus or Atlanta). Winning can a big reason why a UFA would want to sign, if you're a perennial contender like Detroit. It also might be a reason to not want to sign, if the team is consistently awful (NYI, Columbus, Atlanta, Toronto).

For the other 20-25 or so teams, winning doesn't play as large of a role in the decision, as we saw when Briere signed with last place Philly.

If you take the winning aspect out of the picture, I'd confidently say that Montreal is the least attractive of all NHL cities to sign with.

Why would you want to deal with our taxes, our media, the french/english issues, and the weather when you really don't have to.

Although, it's their career, hockey is only one part of these guys' life. They'll not only go where they can win. They'll go where it's best for them and their family.
Why would I take winning out of the equation if that's the argument I'm trying to make???

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04-20-2009, 10:15 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by habaholic View Post
Why would I take winning out of the equation if that's the argument I'm trying to make???
My opinion is that there are only a very small handful of teams where winning will significantly influence a players' decision (we see it in Detroit, and we saw it in Colorado a few years back).
Although, I think players are more likely not to choose a team because they have no chance of winning.

For the other 20-25 teams, I don't believe winning has that much influence. Therefore, out of those 20-25 teams, we're right at the bottom.

And because we're right at the bottom, it's very difficult to sign those UFA's and become one of those very few teams where winning will trump those other factors.

PS, and can you please demonstrate how Ottawa become a UFA hot spot when they started winning?

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04-20-2009, 10:30 AM
  #99
habaholic
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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
My opinion is that there are only a very small handful of teams where winning will significantly influence a players' decision (we see it in Detroit, and we saw it in Colorado a few years back).
Although, I think players are more likely not to choose a team because they have no chance of winning.

For the other 20-25 teams, I don't believe winning has that much influence. Therefore, out of those 20-25 teams, we're right at the bottom.

And because we're right at the bottom, it's very difficult to sign those UFA's and become one of those very few teams where winning will trump those other factors.

PS, and can you please demonstrate how Ottawa become a UFA hot spot when they started winning?
For one, I remember Peter Bondra waiwing his NTC to play there...there might have been a few other players who did the same and never landed there. Honestly this is based on my memory....but feel free to explaing how for 20-25 teams winning is completely irrelevant in how they attract players.

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04-20-2009, 10:32 AM
  #100
Erngueva
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Originally Posted by DougHarvey View Post
Please tell me this is a typo and not 10 more years of this.
LOL. typo yeah... or maybe not ?

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