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Colin Campbell is an idiot...

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Old
04-21-2009, 10:47 AM
  #76
DeadPhish5858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psu711 View Post
There is nothing there showing a clear elbow.
Its at the 16-18 second mark of this.

Also I never said he should be suspended. I don't think he was out there trying to kill Timonen, he just finished his check hard. He still elbowed him. It's just not fair to leave him alone if others are suspended for lesser things.

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04-21-2009, 10:49 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Why should he though? It was a clean hit. We can't have it both ways as Flyers fans. We can't ***** about the wussification of the NHL and then expect a guy to get suspended for putting a good clean hit on someone.
I also did not think it was a dirty hit, and don't think Kunitz should be suspended.

What I AM curious about is if Avery will be suspened. Last minute of a 4-0 game and he punches the rookie goaltender square in the head AS he's being ushered away from him by a linesman.

Let's see:
Last 5 min. of a game - Check
Game that is our of hand - Check
Player with a "history" - Check

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Old
04-21-2009, 10:57 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
I also did not think it was a dirty hit, and don't think Kunitz should be suspended.

What I AM curious about is if Avery will be suspened. Last minute of a 4-0 game and he punches the rookie goaltender square in the head AS he's being ushered away from him by a linesman.

Let's see:
Last 5 min. of a game - Check
Game that is our of hand - Check
Player with a "history" - Check

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Avery has no place in the sport. He's a clown who fiends for attention and brings more bad than good to a team.

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:01 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by GodILoveHockey View Post
Avery has no place in the sport. He's a clown who fiends for attention and brings more bad than good to a team.
The shame of it all, is that he CAN bring more good than bad to a team, if he keeps his crap in check. I've seen him do that effectively, and good for him. There have always been "pests". But, he just gets out of hand sometimes and it hurts his team, like yesterday....

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04-21-2009, 11:03 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
I also did not think it was a dirty hit, and don't think Kunitz should be suspended.

What I AM curious about is if Avery will be suspened. Last minute of a 4-0 game and he punches the rookie goaltender square in the head AS he's being ushered away from him by a linesman.

Let's see:
Last 5 min. of a game - Check
Game that is our of hand - Check
Player with a "history" - Check

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
But is he a bully?

That's the whole system.

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:06 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
But is he a bully?

That's the whole system.
See, that's the question? Is a guy who gets suspended becasue what he SAID a bully? <shrug> Who knows with CC..

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:11 AM
  #82
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Great thread you guys.
Take a look at TSN's coverage with Ray Ferraro ripping into Avery for his antics.
It's very funny that the 20 year old kid didn't even speak english and the look on Torts' face says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PgzXQJGgI

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:11 AM
  #83
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i feel like sooner or later, we're just going to have a lottery system to see who is suspended. five teams entered, and whichever ping pong ball is pulled, that team's player gets suspended. Voila!


then again, we'd probably end up suspicious that at least 3/5 would be philadelphia ping pong balls.

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:14 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by stevedepot View Post
Great thread you guys.
Take a look at TSN's coverage with Ray Ferraro ripping into Avery for his antics.
It's very funny that the 20 year old kid didn't even speak english and the look on Torts' face says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PgzXQJGgI
Haha, that's great.

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:17 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Why should he though? It was a clean hit. We can't have it both ways as Flyers fans. We can't ***** about the wussification of the NHL and then expect a guy to get suspended for putting a good clean hit on someone.
When was charging removed from the rulebook?

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:18 AM
  #86
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best part of the video: Varlamov ignores Avery's jabbering, so Avery punches him in the face, which Varlamov ignores. smart kid

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Old
04-21-2009, 12:38 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
I also did not think it was a dirty hit, and don't think Kunitz should be suspended.

What I AM curious about is if Avery will be suspened. Last minute of a 4-0 game and he punches the rookie goaltender square in the head AS he's being ushered away from him by a linesman.

Let's see:
Last 5 min. of a game - Check
Game that is our of hand - Check
Player with a "history" - Check

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Believe me... i have zero love for Avery... but what he did was a glorified face wash... A tad bit worse than the one Cannon gave crosby near the end of game 3.

Avery didnt wind up and swing or use his body motion to connect. I wouldnt call it a punch (Maybe thats just me).

This is exactly my problem with people getting on the NHL and CC.... If you want to have "grown up" talk about the problems with NHL refs (management) and the inconstancies we see from them (because i think we all agree there are some issues), you have to be able to step back and judge each incident without getting personal about it..

Again, i cant stand Avery and dont think he belongs in the league (when he acts like this), but that "shove" to a helmet (not a face) is not close to the shot Carcillo took. (IMHO)

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Old
04-21-2009, 12:52 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psu711 View Post
Believe me... i have zero love for Avery... but what he did was a glorified face wash... A tad bit worse than the one Cannon gave crosby near the end of game 3.

Avery didnt wind up and swing or use his body motion to connect. I wouldnt call it a punch (Maybe thats just me).

This is exactly my problem with people getting on the NHL and CC.... If you want to have "grown up" talk about the problems with NHL refs (management) and the inconstancies we see from them (because i think we all agree there are some issues), you have to be able to step back and judge each incident without getting personal about it..

Again, i cant stand Avery and dont think he belongs in the league (when he acts like this), but that "shove" to a helmet (not a face) is not close to the shot Carcillo took. (IMHO)
I guess I just disagree with you on the face wash vs punch argument. Carcillo, while yes he did "swing" because he was going down for the face off -- also hit the guy in the side of the helmet. Just as Avery "hit" the goalie in the mask. I'm not defending Carcillo in the least, but I think it's two EXTREMELY similar incidents, yet there's not even a discussion about what Avery did at the NHL level (at least from what I can gather with the lack of info ANYWHERE regarding it).

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04-21-2009, 01:02 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
I guess I just disagree with you on the face wash vs punch argument. Carcillo, while yes he did "swing" because he was going down for the face off -- also hit the guy in the side of the helmet. Just as Avery "hit" the goalie in the mask. I'm not defending Carcillo in the least, but I think it's two EXTREMELY similar incidents, yet there's not even a discussion about what Avery did at the NHL level (at least from what I can gather with the lack of info ANYWHERE regarding it).
Yeah, i think thats what makes the job even tougher. Different people see things different ways and we expect the GODS (NHL Officials) to hand out punishment in a way that we all feel is fair. It is probably asking for the impossible but i do think we all agree some improvments to the system needs made.

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Old
04-21-2009, 01:05 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by psu711 View Post
Yeah, i think thats what makes the job even tougher. Different people see things different ways and we expect the GODS (NHL Officials) to hand out punishment in a way that we all feel is fair. It is probably asking for the impossible but i do think we all agree some improvments to the system needs made.
The problem I see is that we have an opaque system where one man, who has all but admitted that he makes up the standards as he goes along, has sole power to determine what actions do and don't warrant a suspension. I would like to see some accountability from the NHL's management, and ideally a transition to a council of sorts.

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Old
04-21-2009, 01:19 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psu711 View Post
Believe me... i have zero love for Avery... but what he did was a glorified face wash... A tad bit worse than the one Cannon gave crosby near the end of game 3.

Avery didnt wind up and swing or use his body motion to connect. I wouldnt call it a punch (Maybe thats just me).

This is exactly my problem with people getting on the NHL and CC.... If you want to have "grown up" talk about the problems with NHL refs (management) and the inconstancies we see from them (because i think we all agree there are some issues), you have to be able to step back and judge each incident without getting personal about it..

Again, i cant stand Avery and dont think he belongs in the league (when he acts like this), but that "shove" to a helmet (not a face) is not close to the shot Carcillo took. (IMHO)
Avery knew exactly what he was doing. Problem is, Varlamov didnt bite. it wasnt a punch, but it was more then a facewash. he took a swipe at his head as hes skating by. Is it suspendable? I dont think it is. His antics did more damage then any suspension will do. He took several dumb penalties that took away any momentum or any chance of any momentum the Rangers might have had to get back into the hockey game. He was taking dumb penalties, arguing with officials and just being plain stupid.
Comparing what Avery did with his glove to what Carcillo did with the buttend of the stick is like comparing Laraque's baseball slide into Biron last year in that regular season game to Richards face wash of Crosby in game 3 last year.
They are 2 different things.

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Old
04-21-2009, 01:19 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psu711 View Post
Yeah, i think thats what makes the job even tougher. Different people see things different ways and we expect the GODS (NHL Officials) to hand out punishment in a way that we all feel is fair. It is probably asking for the impossible but i do think we all agree some improvments to the system needs made.
The problem isn't what the public perceives as fair; the problem is the consistency in which the punishment is handed out.

Some of the things that really bothered me from Colin Campbell's interview with CBC:

- Campbell saying that Ron was really caught up in the 'last five minutes.' Part of the rationale for suspending Carcillo was that his actions were in the last five minutes. Per the league mandate, any 'message sending' in the last five minutes could lead to suspensions. So far, during the playoffs, there hasn't been any consistency in doling out supplemental punishment for infractions in the last five minutes.

- Campbell saying that Cammalleri isn't a bully and basically stating that Carcillo's reputation earned him a one game suspension but, since Cammalleri was a first time offender, Cammalleri shouldn't be suspended for the exact same incident. MacLean's statement that a bully has to start somewhere was met with indifference from Campbell.

- Campbell's annoyance with MacLean's 'white tower' comment. This bothered me because shortly after, CBC rolled the clip of Bieksa tripping Crombeen and Campbell didn't even know which Canuck was involved (he asked if it was Bieksa or Mitchell). Clearly he hadn't even reviewed the incident, which leads me to believe Campbell and his staff are selective regarding the incidents they choose to review.

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04-21-2009, 01:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Avery knew exactly what he was doing. Problem is, Varlamov didnt bite. it wasnt a punch, but it was more then a facewash. he took a swipe at his head as hes skating by. Is it suspendable? I dont think it is. His antics did more damage then any suspension will do. He took several dumb penalties that took away any momentum or any chance of any momentum the Rangers might have had to get back into the hockey game. He was taking dumb penalties, arguing with officials and just being plain stupid.
Comparing what Avery did with his glove to what Carcillo did with the buttend of the stick is like comparing Laraque's baseball slide into Biron last year in that regular season game to Richards face wash of Crosby in game 3 last year.
They are 2 different things.
I agree with you 100% here. 2 completely different scenarios that probably will receive different punishments. That was exactly my point.

Its all been said. Carcillo, doesnt play pk, doesnt take faceoffs, etc and he went out there for one reason... to throw a punch. To me that is a no-brainer suspension on top of the fact the ref specifically warned him...

People are eager to look at other scenarios and say "a punch is a punch, suspend that guy too" but when you take all the other factors into the equation the decision probably isnt black and white.

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04-21-2009, 01:50 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by psu711 View Post

Its all been said. Carcillo, doesnt play pk, doesnt take faceoffs, etc and he went out there for one reason... to throw a punch. To me that is a no-brainer suspension on top of the fact the ref specifically warned him...
irrelevant. every team sends fourth line players out with 6 seconds to go in a 4-1 game.

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04-21-2009, 01:54 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The problem isn't what the public perceives as fair; the problem is the consistency in which the punishment is handed out.

Some of the things that really bothered me from Colin Campbell's interview with CBC:

- Campbell saying that Ron was really caught up in the 'last five minutes.' Part of the rationale for suspending Carcillo was that his actions were in the last five minutes. Per the league mandate, any 'message sending' in the last five minutes could lead to suspensions. So far, during the playoffs, there hasn't been any consistency in doling out supplemental punishment for infractions in the last five minutes.
I havnt followed all the other series as much as i have followed the PA series. Im going to go out on a limb that when you combine the facts of Carcillo never playing PK, never taking face offs, leading the team in PIMs, and the ref specifically warning him before the face off that there wont be many more easier suspensions to make for a punch or buttend or whatever it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
- Campbell saying that Cammalleri isn't a bully and basically stating that Carcillo's reputation earned him a one game suspension but, since Cammalleri was a first time offender, Cammalleri shouldn't be suspended for the exact same incident. MacLean's statement that a bully has to start somewhere was met with indifference from Campbell.
I have heard alot of people say this... Can i possibly be the only one to think that this is infact strike 1 against Cammalleri? Im sure you dont need to be suspended to have some type of incident report on your record. I would think that the next time Cammalleri makes a questionable move he will hear from the league. Who knows, maybe im giving the NHL too much credit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
- Campbell's annoyance with MacLean's 'white tower' comment. This bothered me because shortly after, CBC rolled the clip of Bieksa tripping Crombeen and Campbell didn't even know which Canuck was involved (he asked if it was Bieksa or Mitchell). Clearly he hadn't even reviewed the incident, which leads me to believe Campbell and his staff are selective regarding the incidents they choose to review.
Ill have to rewatch it. I dont remember that part.

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:01 PM
  #96
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irrelevant. every team sends fourth line players out with 6 seconds to go in a 4-1 game.
So it was just a perfect storm of coincidences along with a punch or buttend being thrown? and the coach catching a 10k fine?

That is your stance on the subject?

Really?

I just feel like if you want to talk about fixing the NHL's issues with inconstancies you have to at least be somewhat in touch with what is happening out there.

These facts are exactly what are and SHOULD BE relevant in dealing out suspensions.

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04-21-2009, 02:05 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
I also did not think it was a dirty hit, and don't think Kunitz should be suspended.

What I AM curious about is if Avery will be suspened. Last minute of a 4-0 game and he punches the rookie goaltender square in the head AS he's being ushered away from him by a linesman.

Let's see:
Last 5 min. of a game - Check
Game that is our of hand - Check
Player with a "history" - Check

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I don't think that what he did should be anything near a suspendable offense, but you're right, he nailed all of Colly Boy's criteria right there

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04-21-2009, 02:06 PM
  #98
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So it was just a perfect storm of coincidences along with a punch or buttend being thrown? and the coach catching a 10k fine?

That is your stance on the subject?

Really?

I just feel like if you want to talk about fixing the NHL's issues with inconstancies you have to at least be somewhat in touch with what is happening out there.

These facts are exactly was is and SHOULD BE relevant in dealing out suspensions.
I'm not naive. I hardly think it was a perfect storm of consequences. And I am ambivalent towards the Carcillo suspension. I just think the whole "Carcillo is not a PK player!" that everyone is screaming and pointing to is, at best, a red herring. Max Talbot is not a powerplay player, both teams put fourth line guys on the ice. For the NHL to tread down the road of dictating to coaches which players they can and can't use in a given situation is unsettling, to say the least. Especially if the disciplinary decisions remain as opaque as they have been.

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04-21-2009, 02:49 PM
  #99
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So it was just a perfect storm of coincidences along with a punch or buttend being thrown? and the coach catching a 10k fine?.
Does Matt Cooke get suspended if the roles were reversed if he did the same exact thing to say Joffrey Lupul?
I think the thing that most Flyer fans and other NHL fans are annoyed with is the double standard and the making up the rules as they go along stance by Campbell. You saw the video. He pretty much said it without saying it. Cammalleri throws that suckerpunch at Havlat. he isnt he even spoken to by the league about it because A. Cammalleri is a skill guy. B. it was a 1-1 game and C. Havlat didnt get injured.
He even said it, well if Havlat had recieved a broken jaw then we would have had to look at it.
According to Campbell prior reputation proceeds the act. another words if a player has a "history" hes going to get fined and/or suspended. If you are s skill guy you can get away with cheap crap.
That is complete and utter ********. I dont care who the team is and who the player is. its a bush league way to be a disciplinarian.

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04-21-2009, 08:18 PM
  #100
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The problem is that suspensions are designed to eliminate risky plays. Regardless of the outcome of the play, if there's a risk of injury its a bad play. Shots like Cammalleri's create risks for injuries. Any play like that needs to be reviewed and taken into account. None of this crap where only certain things are called b.c that does nothing to teach players not to make that risky move.

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