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Old
04-21-2009, 02:14 PM
  #76
Capitano
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
I think this guy just became my favorite poster. Astute observation and I completely agree. To add to their system and discipline is their focus on execution. I noticed last night zone clearance were near perfect and were fluid. Fowards were always well positioned in all three zones. Passing was crisp. It really was something to admire. I hate the Bruins but was left very impressed.
It's easy to look good against us with no organized team defense or offense to speak of...

Boston > Montreal in 2009, no question.

But I still don't think they'll get out of the East.

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04-21-2009, 02:15 PM
  #77
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What about Ilya Kovalchuk?

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04-21-2009, 02:15 PM
  #78
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Fire Gainey, he never did a good enough job making this team into a stanley cup team and also does just as bad of job as coaching as carboneau if not worse.

Hire Marc Crawford or Bob Hartley as coach, 2 people who actually know what there doing.

Trade Plekanec
Sign Koivu Kovalev Tanguay Scheneider komisarek and lang
let dandenault brisebois bouillon go
try everything possible to get lecav and/or bouwmeester
let kostopolous go as well, we need to pick up better role players, people who can actually fight, this guy fights and loses everyone of them, doesnt do nothin for the team

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:17 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
It's easy to look good against us with no organized team defense or offense to speak of...

Boston > Montreal in 2009, no question.

But I still don't think they'll get out of the East.
Credit where it's due. I've watched Boston matchup against better teams and they play just as well. Which explains why they finished 2nd in the whole league.

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:23 PM
  #80
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Credit where it's due. I've watched Boston matchup against better teams and they play just as well. Which explains why they finished 2nd in the whole league.
I'm sure playing Montreal, Toronto, and Ottawa had nothing to do with that either.

I do give Boston credit, they deserved to win the East. But I still think they'll have trouble against New Jersey or Pittsburgh.

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:26 PM
  #81
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Well when you watch your team get checked into the ice in the 3rd period, at home in a pivital game 3 against your biggest rival. I would have to say this team is lacking in heart and character. The Habs just have too many small, soft European players to compete in a physical series. They are called the Montreal Canadiens for a reason. Gainey needs to get back to drafting and signing Canadian players. Not sure what the bashing of Laraque is all about, hes the only Hab who I've seen thats willing to go into the corners and stand in front of the net with Chara so far this series. The Habs need to let players who are not willing to pay the Price walk and bring in more guys who are.

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04-21-2009, 02:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by airlouche View Post
-Get rid of Bob Gainey
-Hire a new GM, dont put Timmins or Julien Brisebois in the hot seat!
-Dont sign Koivu.
-Try very hard to get Bouwmeester.
-Trade everything you have to grab Lecavalier.
-Draft big and tough north-american guys at first, europeans second and very few Russians.
-Wait until next year and do whatever you can to sign Roberto Luongo.
Recipe for disaster .

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:37 PM
  #83
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1- Find a new experienced coach

2- Get a star centerman - Lecavalier for Pleks, Kost Bros,Gorges or O'Byrne, maybe Higgins.

3- Re-sign Komisarek if he is around 3,5 - If over 4, let him go

4- Sign free agents: One or two of Beauchemin, Foster, Oduya for defence- Neil, Laperrière and Veilleux to bolster our two bottom lines. Antropov to center our second line ?

5- Let Koivu and/or Kovy walk

6- Study the possibility of trading Price to the Oilers for their 1st pick + Penner (if the kid is a real head case...)

7- Re-sign Tanguay if he is less than 5 million

8- Let Dandy, Bouillon, Kostopoulos go

9- Re-sign Lang if a second-line center is needed

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:47 PM
  #84
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6- Study the possibility of trading Price to the Oilers for their 1st pick + Penner (if the kid is a real head case...)

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:50 PM
  #85
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I cant beleive how many people have given up on Carey Price. The sophomore jinx happens to 85% of NHL players....Price will bounce back and be a top 3 goalie in the league next season, you just watch!

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:58 PM
  #86
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Relatively... unproductive?

He's top three in both goals and points per game, only being marginally beaten out, and he doesn't get as much icetime as Alex Kovalev! He has more points and more goals per icetime than anyone on the Habs!

He is the Habs' most productive forward! How does that in any way, shape, or form, equate him to being "relatively unproductive"? Explain that one to me, 'cause I really don't see how it makes any kind of sense.

He was a fantastic acquisition, an impact player, and the Habs would be crazy not to try to re-sign him.
Please stick to the focus on his playoff (un)productiveness. The statistics I present are unimpeachable. You are diverting the argument to the regular season. But even at that he was proceeding at a 67-point clip playing first line minutes in an 82-game schedule. Is that worth $5.75M? As for his being 'third', you should consider discounting his relative contributions because many Habs experienced off seasons synchronously. For example, in 2007-2008 Tomas Plekanec was 29-40-69 in 81 games, which is superior to Tanguay's 2008-2009Hab production, and Plekanec isn't making $5.75M. IMO Tanguay didn't earn his team-highest salary, which was substantially above that of Kovalev, who actually shows up for the playoffs.

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Old
04-21-2009, 03:06 PM
  #87
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1. We have to trade some assets to bring in some players that can help our team.

Look to Philli, they need a goalie and a quality D-man, they've needed a goalie for the longest time.

trade Halak + McDonough for VanRiemsdyk

They were looking to trade him at the deadline for a goalie, Halak has potential to be a very solid #1. Many might not want to get rid of McDonough, but I think we need a player like VanRiemsdyk more than we need a McDonough type player. JVR is a gritty big scorer who has enormous potential. Philli with their talented roster could give him up imo.

2. Resign Saku, many don't want him back, but we need him back. Also bring back Komi. Kostopoulos. Bring back Beachemin to replace Boullion or try to get Zanon of the UFAs

3. Bring in a centerman...like Arnott. Plekanec, D'agostini and O'byrne for Arnott and a second in this years draft. Arnott is not a PPG centerman, but he's big, gritty and plays with heart. Has two more years left on a good contract and can be a #1b. centerman until we can find one ourselves.

4.Bring in a cheap veteren backup for Price.


VanRiemsdyk Arnott A.Kostitsyn
Pacioretty Koivu Higgins
Latendresse Lappiere S.Kostitsyn
Stewart Metropolit Kostopoulos

Markov Komi
Hamrlik Weber
Beauchemin Gorges

Addition of Arnott, JVR, Beachemin and a full time Max Pacioretty makes habs a tougher team but equally as skilled. Higgins, Latendresse, Lappiere, Stewart and Kostpoulos all play a gritty game as well.

I Know, I'm dreaming!

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Old
04-21-2009, 03:33 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
The thing is take guys like Savard and Kessel for instance. We think they're all talent but they play with more of an edge than say the Kosti Bros or Plekanec. And that's the difference. Krejci...heck we don't have guys like that on our team! A big center? Habs have been wanting to have somebody like that for 10 years! Bergeron...Hell he would be the toughess guy on our first two lines, easy. Did you see the play he made by hitting Lapierrre leading to the goal on the last game of the season?
Krejci is a peanut next to Plekanec.
Savard and Kessel are much more talented than Plek/A.Kost, especially this year when the latter ones are cold. They don't have more of an edge than them, they are simply playing up to their potential.

If Plek/A.Kost played like they did last year, it would have been a closer match up. But Savard and Kessel are still better.
S.Kost plays with the aggressive edge, or at least he did last year.

It's simple, they are more talented. Their team is better than ours.
If some players weren't cold, it would have been a closer serie but they're still better.

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Old
04-21-2009, 03:40 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, that's why we lost, because of their size and toughness.

It's not because they simply are more talented. No, that had a really minor impact.

Toughness had nothing to do with it. Not only are we missing key players, but Boston have played a well structured system that started to get in place last season. We on the other hand, have struggled all season long to find some type of system until Gainey fired Carbo. He tried to implement one, and just as it was getting better, we lose our #1 D (happens to be our top scorer) and our PP Point shot. Add them to our already injured players, and the ones on a cold streak. That gives us a team with very little proven talent.

Blaming it on grit again is just weak.
They simply are more talented and there system is executed to perfection.

Where it's mainly played is on Defense. They have a very effective D squad and the back check from their forwards is always present (how many 2-1s or 3-2s did we have so far?) and their zone coverage is almost flawless.
Now compared to us, we have a battered and panicky D. Mistakes after mistakes in our zone, bad coverage from our forwards and it seems the Fs are always too tired to do an effective back check.

Toughness, grit, whatever you want to call it, is the last reason why we're down 3-0 if you even want to call it a reason.
Julien has done a great job with the Bruins, particularly on the D, and Chiarelli has supplied him with some useful veterans. Gainey brought in Brisebois and tried to get too much mileage out of Dandenault, Bouillon, and O'Byrne. Also, he didn't find another point man for the PP until in desperation he overpaid for an ancient Schneider (well, at least he didn't fetch another Niinimaa). Carbonneau couldn't put together a coordinated D either at even strength or on the PK. I'm not the first poster on this forum who feels that the rebuilt D this past season was just a spackle job.

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Old
04-21-2009, 03:53 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Krejci is a peanut next to Plekanec.
Savard and Kessel are much more talented than Plek/A.Kost, especially this year when the latter ones are cold. They don't have more of an edge than them, they are simply playing up to their potential.

If Plek/A.Kost played like they did last year, it would have been a closer match up. But Savard and Kessel are still better.
S.Kost plays with the aggressive edge, or at least he did last year.

It's simple, they are more talented. Their team is better than ours.
If some players weren't cold, it would have been a closer serie but they're still better.
Dude if you don't think the Bruins play more with an edge, that they're not more physical players for players compared to the Habs, you're lying to yourself. These guys are intimidating and they pretty much humilated the Habs in that game before the playoffs. Komisarek ended the game crying his mother.

This take the cake:

Quote:
Krejci is a peanut next to Plekanec.


As long as the Habs community, Habs fans, Habs management, etc... won't admit that we have to play physical and get those type of players ready to pay the price, it's gonna be the result we have had for the last 15 years.

Be happy with your softies with another 15 years, Kriss.

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Old
04-21-2009, 03:54 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
1. We have to trade some assets to bring in some players that can help our team.

Look to Philli, they need a goalie and a quality D-man, they've needed a goalie for the longest time.

trade Halak + McDonough for VanRiemsdyk

They were looking to trade him at the deadline for a goalie, Halak has potential to be a very solid #1. Many might not want to get rid of McDonough, but I think we need a player like VanRiemsdyk more than we need a McDonough type player. JVR is a gritty big scorer who has enormous potential. Philli with their talented roster could give him up imo.
typically this has been the type of trade I don't like. First I do not like the idea of dealing Halak within the conference, and I do think McDonough will be a great dman for us; however JVR would be a great fit for us and I would definately make the deal if it was available.

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:39 PM
  #92
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the key to our rebuilding is to hope pasquale Magnolia buys the habs

But seriously we need our young players to grow up and someone to have some leadership

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:43 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Dude if you don't think the Bruins play more with an edge, that they're not more physical players for players compared to the Habs, you're lying to yourself. These guys are intimidating and they pretty much humilated the Habs in that game before the playoffs. Komisarek ended the game crying his mother.

This take the cake:





As long as the Habs community, Habs fans, Habs management, etc... won't admit that we have to play physical and get those type of players ready to pay the price, it's gonna be the result we have had for the last 15 years.

Be happy with your softies with another 15 years, Kriss.
The physical model is only one model of how to build a hockey team. What makes you sure being physical is going to help win games? PROVE YOUR CLAIM. The Detroit Red Wings don't play physical at all. They screen the goalie. That's the extent of it. It's not necessary for winning.

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Old
04-21-2009, 05:47 PM
  #94
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Higgins-Antropov-Gaborik
Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev
Kostopoulos-Metropolit-D'agostini (not too sure of that line)
Latendresse-Lapierre-Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Weber-Beauchemin
Gorges-Zubov

Price
Biron

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:23 PM
  #95
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Please stick to the focus on his playoff (un)productiveness. The statistics I present are unimpeachable. You are diverting the argument to the regular season.
Largely because I don't believe that playoff stats, and their small sample size mean a whole lot, especially for a guy who has met with great success before in a Cup run, as a rookie no less. Tanguay has barely more than a season's worth of playoff games, and that is a lot of playoff experience.

Interestingly, James Mirtle just put up a lovely article on this with a helpful chart on this very subject.

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/4/21...nderperformers

See Datsyuk for an example of how bad playoff stats can turn around in a hurry -- his playoff to regular season is even worse than Tanguay's. The main difference between the perception of Datsyuk's stats and Tanguay's is that Tanguay got his killer year early, rather than recently. A couple of other interesting guys on that chart, like Getzlaf and Selanne.

Unless you want to argue laim that Datsyuk and Getzlaf are a bad playoff performers, which is an argument I'd find interesting to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
But even at that he was proceeding at a 67-point clip playing first line minutes in an 82-game schedule. Is that worth $5.75M?
Considering that the vast majority of that production is a- at even strength and b- done while preventing goals against pretty much as well as anyone on the team, I'm going to have to say "yes, and in spades". For a team that has struggled at even-strength, an elite even-strength performer like Tanguay is pure gold.

Tanguay never got first-unit power play minutes until Gainey was coach, and then he was productive (of course, having a productive PP overall helped -- but Tanguay was a major contributor.)

Superficial looks at counting stats are a terrible way to judge players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
As for his being 'third', you should consider discounting his relative contributions because many Habs experienced off seasons synchronously.
You're the one who called him "relatively unproductive". He's been the most productive player on the team this year. Comparing him to last year's Tomas Plekanec is more than a little disingenious due to team effects. Players on teams that do well will themselves do well (compare the Bruins of last year to the Bruins of this year for a similar example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
IMO Tanguay didn't earn his team-highest salary, which was substantially above that of Kovalev, who actually shows up for the playoffs.
I think that Tanguay, who was far and away the Habs' best two-way forward, fully deserved to be the team's highest-paid forward.

I've described him as "Markov at forward" and the comparison is apt, even though the overall impact isn't the same: Tanguay's a two-way force, not very flashy, but nonetheless highly productive and highly effective. When Tanguay is on the ice, the Habs score a lot more and get scored on a lot less. This is not coincidence.

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04-21-2009, 06:25 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
As long as the Habs community, Habs fans, Habs management, etc... won't admit that we have to play physical and get those type of players ready to pay the price, it's gonna be the result we have had for the last 15 years.
Kimota... Krejci weights 178 pounds. He's smaller than Plekanec.

If you want to build an argument for size, you need to find another warhorse, this one looks a little light.

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:35 PM
  #97
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What about Ilya Kovalchuk?
without a doubt we should grab him, but hes signed next year.

We'll see how Atlanta looks at the trade deadline, if they havent beefed up in the offseason, look for Kovalchuk to be moved, and we should be the first team on it.

Until then...check out my roster above

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:55 PM
  #98
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We out muscled the bruins tonight and still lost
really depends on your definition.

Montreal lacks guys willing to take punishment in front of the net.
Montreal lacks guys on scoring lines who are able to protect the puck down low and fend off checkers.
They lack defenseman who are strong in front of the net and behind the icing line and along the boards.
Very few forwards are willing to throw themselves to the ice to block shots.
Players continually bail out if they are going to be hit.
the list goes.

If the only definition is some run of the mill hits by Kostopoulos, Lappy, and Lats, it doesn't cut it.

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:58 PM
  #99
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Dude if you don't think the Bruins play more with an edge, that they're not more physical players for players compared to the Habs, you're lying to yourself. These guys are intimidating and they pretty much humilated the Habs in that game before the playoffs. Komisarek ended the game crying his mother.

This take the cake:





As long as the Habs community, Habs fans, Habs management, etc... won't admit that we have to play physical and get those type of players ready to pay the price, it's gonna be the result we have had for the last 15 years.

Be happy with your softies with another 15 years, Kriss.
It's easy for Boston to play with more of an ''edge'' when we have 4 key guys out (Markov-Lang-Tang-Schneider) and 2 others cold (Plek-A.Kost).
I think we would look like we played with more of an ''edge'' if we had a full healthy roster and were well coached throughout this season.

It's simple, they're BETTER.

Like I said, outside Chara, Lucic and Thornton, nobody on their team is physically intimidating.
They are intimidating because of their SKILLS.

I don't know if you realize how talented their players are because you only focus on their ''size''.

If you take pound for pound, we have the bigger team. In terms of height, I think they have a very minor advantage mainly thanks to Chara.

You clearly are lost in your own posts.
You said Krejci is a BIG center.

Krejci: 5'11 176lbs
Plekanec: 5'10 196lbs
(According to nhlpa, similar to nhl.com)

Plek is actually the bigger one. But Krejci is better, or at least for this season, so he looks bigger.

They're tougher to play against because their players are well coached and play in a structured system that fit them perfectly.

Put Kessel on our team and he'll be as ''soft'' as A.Kost. Same thing with Savard. Ryder is the best example as he could be considered ''soft'' or ''not gritty'' on our team, but under Julien that all changed.
They aren't tough gritty player, Lucic is. You put Lucic on any team he'll be playing the same way because it's very simple.

It all comes down to skills and coaching. They have the clear advantage in both departments. If you want to give more importance to this fake idea that they have a ''bigger'' team than us or that all their players are naturally ''gritty'' than go ahead. But I don't agree for a second.

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Old
04-21-2009, 07:06 PM
  #100
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Laraque has ntc

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