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The answer to "trade everyone who sucked this year" : see Ryder, Michael.

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Old
04-21-2009, 12:59 PM
  #51
Sined
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Originally Posted by marc88 View Post
hmmm..perhaps the coaches?

players tend to play better without media and fans on them 24/7

we need players who crave the attention..
Mr. Avery, I have Bob Gainey on line 1.

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04-21-2009, 01:02 PM
  #52
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I liked Ryder as a hab and as a fellow newfoundlander I was very proud that he was a good player for the Habs, but for some reason he played lousy, this year he bounced back, I guess partying all off season in Nfld left him in bad shape for camp, not to say that former and past habs enjoyed a party or two...

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04-21-2009, 01:03 PM
  #53
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He's our #2 RW and probably our 5-6th most important forward. Just thought I'd mention. When he was hurt we tanked pretty bad.
Yea well take Ryder two years ago. He was on the Habs' first line ands we did not have much of a second line. So he and Koivu and Higgins were the first line had to take the team on their back. In Boston there's David Krejci, Milan Lucic, Mark Savard, Phil Kessell, Patrice Bergeron etc...He doesn't have to be "the" guy. Ryder doesn't have the personality of a leader. And that's fine. But in Montreal a few years ago he was exposed. And last year we had this speedy team and the European Habs style he was not at ease in that, sometime he couldn't keep up with the other guys. Boston has more of a position trapping style and it's easier for a guy like that than on a mad skating team. He just do his job, get in front of the net and act like the sniper that he is.

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04-21-2009, 01:11 PM
  #54
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I think we need to remember how things looked at the end of last year. Ryder had a bad season, that is for sure. We had younger, cheaper players who's potential seemed higher than Ryder's (Kostitsyns, Higgins, etc). Those players were expected to take more prominent ice time this season and continue to progress, which would have pushed Ryder down to at least the 3rd line. Could we afford to pay him 4 mil a season on the 3rd line....not likely.

We didn't get the season we wanted out of our young guys, they regressed. Ryder had a good season, good for him, I have no problem with that. How would he have done on our underachieving team this year? My guess is probably not as well as in Boston. We miss Ryder's shot, that is for sure, he was one of the guys that got the puck, and took shots, we don't have enough of that. But I don't think realistically, looking at the end of last season, he would have been resigned.

We need to remember that we are still a young team, and that we have to have patience. All is not lost, there is still talent and young talent on this team, we just need to get everyone going in the right direction.

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04-21-2009, 01:12 PM
  #55
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Ryder at 4M$ ; are you crazy? He did is time with Montreal. Julien likes him and Ryder likes Julien. May they have fun in Boston. Amen.

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04-21-2009, 01:47 PM
  #56
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People don't understand what an asset is when they keep conjuring up Streit/Ryder in arguements.

In the new capped NHL, UFAs are signings are rarely valuable 'assets' unless they have ridiculously good contracts. Guys like Savard @ 5 million are valuable assets, Ryder @ 4 million is not.

Habs passed on Ryder and Streit because they knew they'd be getting big UFA premiums, the kind that go to essential players, not periphery guys. Gainey passed, he wanted flexibility and thought he could do better. That 9 million cap space became his asset, which he used to add Tanguay and Lang.

BTW this Ryder contract may come back to haunt Boston since they have Krecje and Kessel up for big raises this summer (along with Thomas who already signed his 4 million raise), then Lucic & Savard next summer. Woulda been a lot better to have signed Recchi last summer.

Also for every Ryder who finds his decent game again there's an Afinoganov, Malakhov or Naslund who never do.

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04-21-2009, 01:53 PM
  #57
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Doesn't change the fact he still has skills and put the puck in the net. He's not a washed up loser like everyone thought he was going to be.
Nobody thought he was going to be washed up. In fact, the consensus here on the board was that he'd probably get close to 30 playing for boston. We just laughed at the contract they gave him because it was off such a bad year.That's all.

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Old
04-21-2009, 01:59 PM
  #58
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I agree one some level. Ryder was finished with us. After a year like he had, there was no way we would have paid 4M. Everyone was surprised when Boston signed him for that much.

But I do agree on the fact that we shouldn't trade our youth unless it brings something good back. I'm just as dissapointed as anyone about this season and POs. But still... too many people are acting like kids who think they know everything. I claim in fact that I don't know much, which why I trust the organization. I doubt it's an easy job.

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:21 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by momotan View Post
Last year: Didn't backcheck, didn't cover his man, didn't hit, didn't make good passes, was -1000, was called soft, a *****, uselless, dumb as a puck and generally sucked.

This year: Backchecks, plays his man, hits hard, makes good passes, and scores the game winners.

Guys with talent don't need to be given up on. Bad years happen. Most guys learn from them and get better.
This year playing with a good centerman on a very good well-coached team.

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04-21-2009, 02:35 PM
  #60
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This year playing with a good centerman on a very good well-coached team.
You can add: playing with a team that has lines with chemistry.
We can't build line chemistry if they always change.

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Old
04-21-2009, 02:45 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
You can add: playing with a team that has lines with chemistry.
We can't build line chemistry if they always change.
+ playing away from Montreal and its bars. Ryder was partying heavily too like Price, Higgins and all the other bachelors are in Monteal.

Habs should force their players to marry, or trade only for married guys.

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Old
04-21-2009, 03:00 PM
  #62
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His "mediocre season" would have place him amongst our best players this year...
Exactly.

People always have a whipping boy and beg and plead for them to be traded or to leave and look what happens.

It is an on going vicious cycle of good players leaving and doing well in a system that coaches and gm's accomodate their qualities too and with the players they need to be successful with.

It goes from Ryder, Ribeiro, Souray, Streit, Grabpvski, Beauchemin, Hainsey and all the way Conroy, Leclair and others!

And now we have fans on the Trade boards begging to trade Price for a 1st round pick!?!?

Put Price in Detroit with that defense and team and they wouldn't be second guessing their goaltending for 15 years!!!

The GM failed this team in getting the supporting cast right.

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Old
04-21-2009, 03:00 PM
  #63
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Carbo ****ed him badly and the habs org treated him like trash. Same thing is happening to our young players. Carbo is the big reason why our season is so miserable. He suck the life out of the players, stupid vampire should go and drink blood somewhere else. Too bad Gainey didnt fire him sooner, might have saved the season.

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:46 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by momotan View Post
Last year: Didn't backcheck, didn't cover his man, didn't hit, didn't make good passes, was -1000, was called soft, a *****, uselless, dumb as a puck and generally sucked.

This year: Backchecks, plays his man, hits hard, makes good passes, and scores the game winners.

Guys with talent don't need to be given up on. Bad years happen. Most guys learn from them and get better.
It's not as simple at that.
For a lot of players, getting traded or changing teams is a huge catalyst to re-kindle thier drive to succeed.

A change of scenery can help a lot. A fresh start is sometimes all that is needed.
Sometimes the ego takes a big blow to be traded or not re-signed.
Some players use this frustration to elevate their game.

See : Gravoski, Ribeiro, Ryder, John Leclair
etc..

Some players do not bounce back from being traded :
Theodore

So it is not as simple as saying - player a had a bad year - re-sign him he will bounce back. Being traded can do wonders for bouncing back.

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Old
04-21-2009, 07:57 PM
  #65
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I think the growing issue in Montreal (with the internet, blogging, media outlets increasing, etc) is that every negative aspect of a players game is magnified and criticized to the point where they are chased prematurely out of town.

Before, (and with most other teams in the NHL) players were allowed to develop and grow as a player through years of playing for the Canadiens.

Now, we see many fans being very critical of Komisarek, Price, O'Byrne, Higgins, and the Kostitsyn's, with many fans wanting them waived, traded or not resigned! These are great young players who need to grow as a team together with support from their franchise. Protect your assets Montreal, and get a coaching, veterna leadership and management system in place that develops these players! Reverse the trend!

It seems they need a coach/GM and Captain who will stand up for the players against the media, and (god forbid) call out specific members of the media who are being overly critical of the players. Maybe then players will feel more confident in their play and the team that they represent.

As much as I am a fan of the development of American NHL teams,(and am a die-hard Bruins fan for over two long hard decades), the NHL needs the storied Canadian franchises to have a return to glory/success.

Cheers

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Old
04-21-2009, 08:13 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
+ playing away from Montreal and its bars. Ryder was partying heavily too like Price, Higgins and all the other bachelors are in Monteal.

Habs should force their players to marry, or trade only for married guys.
haha I forgot that there are no bars outside of Montreal ! lol time for you to get of that little bubble you live in, the nightlife (bars) exist everywhere on this planet.....

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Old
04-22-2009, 06:09 AM
  #67
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Did you see his CBC interview? He lit up with a giant smile when they asked if he was happy to stick it to his old team. I think he does bear a grudge.
Of course he bears a grudge. He played great for 3 years only to be rewarded each time with a 1 year contract. No commitment was given by the team to any sort of longterm deal. So in his last year with the Habs he gets benched, relegated to 3rd and 4th lines and booted off the power play in favor of the flavor of the day Kosty Bros. Talk about hindsight, I guess there has to be some regret now.

As for Carbo placing Ryder in the doghouse... rumors around the bay say that Ryder was dating Carbo's youngest daughter at the time and coach did not approve. The personal battle spilled over into the locker room and led to Ryder's falling out of favor. I guess Ryder was not the calibre of player as Brendan Morrow?

Not sure if any of the tabloid specialists in Montreal picked up on any of this, but I have nothing more than what's spreading around back east. For anybody looking for confirmation on this, like I said these are only rumors.

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Old
04-22-2009, 06:43 AM
  #68
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the real problem with this team is that we sh** on a 30 goal scorer eg. M. Ryder, yet we, the fans, the media, praise and glorify 12 goal scores(wont mention any name(s)). How does that make any sense? Where is the logic in that?

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04-22-2009, 06:49 AM
  #69
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For those people who said Ryder was done with us because he was going to command too much as a UFA (and the same goes with Streit), well who's fault is that? It's the management's fault for not giving them more than a 1 year contract and then not negotiating during the season for a new multi year deal one. If these players had've been signed, we could've kept them or even traded them for something instead of losing them for nothing! Imagine that.

And I still believe to this day that Ryder's downfall had something to do with getting yet another 1 year contract and the extra pressure it puts on you.

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Old
04-22-2009, 06:54 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
I think the growing issue in Montreal (with the internet, blogging, media outlets increasing, etc) is that every negative aspect of a players game is magnified and criticized to the point where they are chased prematurely out of town.

Before, (and with most other teams in the NHL) players were allowed to develop and grow as a player through years of playing for the Canadiens.

Now, we see many fans being very critical of Komisarek, Price, O'Byrne, Higgins, and the Kostitsyn's, with many fans wanting them waived, traded or not resigned! These are great young players who need to grow as a team together with support from their franchise. Protect your assets Montreal, and get a coaching, veterna leadership and management system in place that develops these players! Reverse the trend!

It seems they need a coach/GM and Captain who will stand up for the players against the media, and (god forbid) call out specific members of the media who are being overly critical of the players. Maybe then players will feel more confident in their play and the team that they represent.

As much as I am a fan of the development of American NHL teams,(and am a die-hard Bruins fan for over two long hard decades), the NHL needs the storied Canadian franchises to have a return to glory/success.

Cheers
Was about to start a response and then I saw this post which summed up nearly everything I wanted to add.

Watching the playoff game on Monday was so flustrating to me as a Habs fan for nearly 40 years. First, the fans booed the American national anthem. You can say that a few ********* make everyone else look bad..... but there were more than a few people booing. Disrespect in any form is bush league and has no place in our game.
The game starts and we score the place goes nuts. But by the time the Bruins go up by 1 the fans have started to turn on our own players. How do you think those guys feel about getting booed out of their home rink in a must win playoff game? christ, there is no wonder why no one whats to play in Montreal. Watching that BS I could see why players like Briere took less to play elsewhere. And there is just no let up from the fans and media.

As for Ryder, his days were done in Montreal. After not being able to secure a multi year contract after scoring 25/30/30 goals and then having a head coach not say a full sentence to you after the all star break, you know it is time to move on. It was so bad that if Ryder didn't talk to Jarvis or Muller, he would not even know if he was playing the next game. Kind of hard to know whats expected of you if the coach haven't got the common decency to talk to you like a man.

Anyhow, Boston has come to appreciate what Montreal didn't.

Quick! Name 1 team that could use some heart, scoring, hitting and grit right now?!
yea, we had some but didn't appreciate it.

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Old
04-22-2009, 07:00 AM
  #71
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Even a monkey with a smelly finger could have had a great season on the Bruins this year.
Don't pretend to think this is a correct statement when in fact it couldn't be further from the truth.

Reality is, Ryder was one of the reasons the Bruins have had a great season thus far.

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Old
04-22-2009, 07:18 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by momotan View Post
Last year: Didn't backcheck, didn't cover his man, didn't hit, didn't make good passes, was -1000, was called soft, a *****, uselless, dumb as a puck and generally sucked.

This year: Backchecks, plays his man, hits hard, makes good passes, and scores the game winners.

Guys with talent don't need to be given up on. Bad years happen. Most guys learn from them and get better.
Michael Ryder isn't a better player than he was. He still floats (although Julien knows when to bench him), and is still mostly effective at 5 on 5. Don't count on him to play physical or to be aware defensively.

No, the main difference is that Ryder is playing under Julien, and mostly WITH BETTER PLAYERS.

That's it.

He played most the year with more talented players: Krejci and Wheeler.

Stats are one thing, but a good analysis requires more than that.

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Old
04-22-2009, 07:36 AM
  #73
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Ryder was well surrounded in Boston this year,if he didn't play with Savard he played with Krejci or Bergeron.Who was he going to play with in Montreal?Koivu,Pleks or Lapierre and it's only normal he would have produced half of what he did in Boston

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04-22-2009, 07:41 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Prrebel View Post
Was about to start a response and then I saw this post which summed up nearly everything I wanted to add.

Watching the playoff game on Monday was so flustrating to me as a Habs fan for nearly 40 years. First, the fans booed the American national anthem. You can say that a few ********* make everyone else look bad..... but there were more than a few people booing. Disrespect in any form is bush league and has no place in our game.
The game starts and we score the place goes nuts. But by the time the Bruins go up by 1 the fans have started to turn on our own players. How do you think those guys feel about getting booed out of their home rink in a must win playoff game? christ, there is no wonder why no one whats to play in Montreal. Watching that BS I could see why players like Briere took less to play elsewhere. And there is just no let up from the fans and media.

As for Ryder, his days were done in Montreal. After not being able to secure a multi year contract after scoring 25/30/30 goals and then having a head coach not say a full sentence to you after the all star break, you know it is time to move on. It was so bad that if Ryder didn't talk to Jarvis or Muller, he would not even know if he was playing the next game. Kind of hard to know whats expected of you if the coach haven't got the common decency to talk to you like a man.

Anyhow, Boston has come to appreciate what Montreal didn't.

Quick! Name 1 team that could use some heart, scoring, hitting and grit right now?!
yea, we had some but didn't appreciate it.
Good points, and thanks.

Not even 24 hours since I posted this and the media in Montreal has just 'speculated' that Tanguay and Schneider are faking their injuries so that they are healthy for UFA in the summer...are you kidding me?

Last time I checked, Schneider came back when everyone said he was done for the year. He even said he was fine and good to go, then scores a goal to get Montreal into the Post-season. If he really wanted to rest, he could have hung them up there. This is insulting for both these players and I really hope Gainey tears the media a new one on this instance.

This is a chance for the club to adamently defend their players and start reversing this trend of hanging out players to dry!

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04-22-2009, 08:13 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momotan View Post
Last year: Didn't backcheck, didn't cover his man, didn't hit, didn't make good passes, was -1000, was called soft, a *****, uselless, dumb as a puck and generally sucked.

This year: Backchecks, plays his man, hits hard, makes good passes, and scores the game winners.

Guys with talent don't need to be given up on. Bad years happen. Most guys learn from them and get better.
Yet he was 6th in Hits on the Habs Last Season.

3rd among Forwards.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

Seems like he was still decent last season, the coach just wasn't giving him PP time.

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