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Old
04-21-2009, 07:07 PM
  #101
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Like I said, outside Chara, Lucic and Thornton, nobody on their team is physically intimidating.
They are intimidating because of their SKILLS.
Yes Boston is more skilled, the kicker is Montreal doesn't have a SINGLE player who is even on par with physically with any of the three.

The combination is what kills. Not one or the other which is how its being made out to be.

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04-21-2009, 07:34 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, that's why we lost, because of their size and toughness.

It's not because they simply are more talented. No, that had a really minor impact.

Toughness had nothing to do with it. Not only are we missing key players, but Boston have played a well structured system that started to get in place last season. We on the other hand, have struggled all season long to find some type of system until Gainey fired Carbo. He tried to implement one, and just as it was getting better, we lose our #1 D (happens to be our top scorer) and our PP Point shot. Add them to our already injured players, and the ones on a cold streak. That gives us a team with very little proven talent.

Blaming it on grit again is just weak.
They simply are more talented and there system is executed to perfection.

Where it's mainly played is on Defense. They have a very effective D squad and the back check from their forwards is always present (how many 2-1s or 3-2s did we have so far?) and their zone coverage is almost flawless.
Now compared to us, we have a battered and panicky D. Mistakes after mistakes in our zone, bad coverage from our forwards and it seems the Fs are always too tired to do an effective back check.

Toughness, grit, whatever you want to call it, is the last reason why we're down 3-0 if you even want to call it a reason.
But... but... Aren't we filled with skills and depth? That's what we've been hearing on this board for the last two years, no? Well that's what I've been reading anyway.

Too many dipsy-doodlers and not enough quality grit! That's what I've been saying all year!

Someone mentioned that we're getting intimidated. That's absolutely true! Plekanec, the Kostitsyn's, our defensive corp as a whole...

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04-21-2009, 07:48 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
But... but... Aren't we filled with skills and depth? That's what we've been hearing on this board for the last two years, no? Well that's what I've been reading anyway.
There's a lot of skill on the team, but it's been in the IR for much of the year and some of it (Plekanec) took a serious step back.

It doesn't change the fact that Boston is built on skill and in their healthy lineup versus this pale shadow of a Hab team they're playing, yeah, they have more skill. Add the four injured guys to the Habs, and it may well be a different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Too many dipsy-doodlers and not enough quality grit! That's what I've been saying all year!

Someone mentioned that we're getting intimidated. That's absolutely true! Plekanec, the Kostitsyn's, our defensive corp as a whole...
Saying it doesn't make it true. Boston isn't built as a size-and-grit team, at least offensively; their reputation in this area is a holdover of the Big Bad Bruins and developped by overhyped pest player Lucic, but it is not grounded in reality. Their top scorers are small skilled forwards: Savard, Kessel, Krejci.

The facts are there, for people who care to look at those, but they are too few and far between.

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04-21-2009, 08:05 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
The thing is take guys like Savard and Kessel for instance. We think they're all talent but they play with more of an edge than say the Kosti Bros or Plekanec. And that's the difference. Krejci...heck we don't have guys like that on our team! A big center? Habs have been wanting to have somebody like that for 10 years! Bergeron...Hell he would be the toughess guy on our first two lines, easy. Did you see the play he made by hitting Lapierrre leading to the goal on the last game of the season?
We had a big right handed centre in Lang who was our leading goal scorer before he was injured. Our depth chart looked great with him in the lineup and A. Kost was at his best along his side. The makeup of this team went south because Lang went out with injury. Our record without Lang is dismal. Add Markov, Schneider and Tanguay to that list as well as Latendresse (who was doing very well then was injured for a big stint) and you have a recipe for failure. Every player Gainey went out and grabbed off the market has been out for long stretches of the season and now they're all out at the same time for the Playoffs. Horrible luck.

Right now, the Bruins are beating us with, believe it or not, skill and depth which is something the Canadiens did have and are supposed to have, but not when everyone's out with injury.

Right now, the Habs have four defensemen out of the lineup, their number 2 centre, and a top line winger. No team, no matter the depth, can recover from that.


Last edited by LesHabsRock: 04-21-2009 at 08:10 PM.
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Old
04-21-2009, 08:13 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
There's a lot of skill on the team, but it's been in the IR for much of the year and some of it (Plekanec) took a serious step back.

It doesn't change the fact that Boston is built on skill and in their healthy lineup versus this pale shadow of a Hab team they're playing, yeah, they have more skill. Add the four injured guys to the Habs, and it may well be a different story.

Saying it doesn't make it true. Boston isn't built as a size-and-grit team, at least offensively; their reputation in this area is a holdover of the Big Bad Bruins and developped by overhyped pest player Lucic, but it is not grounded in reality. Their top scorers are small skilled forwards: Savard, Kessel, Krejci.

The facts are there, for people who care to look at those, but they are too few and far between.
I am certainly not denying the fact that injuries are playing a role as I've stated in the main Playoffs' Board in many occasions, nor am I saying that the Bruins aren't a talented team.

But the Bruins have a mix of skills and grit. We have a group filled with skills. The grit aspect is simply not to the level of the Bruins. It's not saying it, it's seeing it from our own eyes.

We do need some dipsy-doodlers on the team, but Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, the Kostitsyn's, Plekanec, Higgins... that's a whole lot of players in a similar mold on a team. They can all show some grit and physicality from time to time, but it's not in their nature. I'm simply saying that we need a better balance in order to be a successful playoffs' team. Our team reminds me a lot of the old Ottawa Senators with less skills at the blue line.

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04-21-2009, 08:18 PM
  #106
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
There's a lot of skill on the team, but it's been in the IR for much of the year and some of it (Plekanec) took a serious step back.

It doesn't change the fact that Boston is built on skill and in their healthy lineup versus this pale shadow of a Hab team they're playing, yeah, they have more skill. Add the four injured guys to the Habs, and it may well be a different story.



Saying it doesn't make it true. Boston isn't built as a size-and-grit team, at least offensively; their reputation in this area is a holdover of the Big Bad Bruins and developped by overhyped pest player Lucic, but it is not grounded in reality. Their top scorers are small skilled forwards: Savard, Kessel, Krejci.

The facts are there, for people who care to look at those, but they are too few and far between.
But you can't say Boston is just a skilled team either. Neglecting the fact they have many more physical components is ignoring reality too.

Boston is balanced. Thats what makes their team so good. They have enough skill to win that style of game and more than enough grit to grind it out.

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04-21-2009, 08:33 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
But you can't say Boston is just a skilled team either. Neglecting the fact they have many more physical components is ignoring reality too.

Boston is balanced. Thats what makes their team so good. They have enough skill to win that style of game and more than enough grit to grind it out.
I think everyone agrees that Boston has grit and it's part of their game, but that's not why they're beating Montreal in this series. Montreal has matched and beaten them at the physical game, but not on the scoreboard. The reason they're being outscored is because of all of the Habs injuries to key players including 4 defensemen, a top line winger and their 2nd line centre the Bruins simply have more skill and depth that the Habs simply cannot match at this time. That's just a fact of the matter.

Edit: Look at Boston's execution and passing. Their passes are crisp and their transition game is superior to ours. They're also a very healthy lineup as well. No key injuries.

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Old
04-21-2009, 08:41 PM
  #108
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
I think everyone agrees that Boston has grit and it's part of their game, but that's not why they're beating Montreal in this series. Montreal has matched and beaten them at the physical game, but not on the scoreboard. The reason they're being outscored is because of all of the Habs injuries to key players including 4 defensemen, a top line winger and their 2nd line centre the Bruins simply have more skill and depth that the Habs simply cannot match at this time. That's just a fact of the matter.

Edit: Look at Boston's execution and passing. Their passes are crisp and their transition game is superior to ours. They're also a very healthy lineup as well. No key injuries.
For me its not just grit though. It has a lot to do with size and strength especially which is why i said physical components. With their size and strength they have controlled Montreal down low and in front of both nets. They also have superior skills. Again its combination.

And Marco Sturm is a key injury but i get your point.

Once again though, its the balance that is killing Montreal. I have never said Boston is pummeling Montreal through grit but some are making it sound like Boston is just out skilling Montreal and that isn't accurate either.

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Old
04-21-2009, 09:00 PM
  #109
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Re-sign :

Kovalev , Scheinder , Lang , Tanguay , Komisarek , Kostopoulos


Bye Bye to :

Dandenault , Brisebois , Bouillon , Koivu


Trade :

Plekanec , D'agostini / Higgins and try to grab Lecavalier in a package deal


Promote :

Weber , Paciorrety


Roster :

Tanguay - Lecavalier - Latendresse

A Kost - Lang - Kovalev

Pacioretty - Lapierre - Kostopoulos

Laraque - Metropolit - Stewart


Markov - Komisarek
Hamrlik - Scheinder
Weber - Gorges


Price
Halak



AHL possible Call up = Subban , Maxwell , Mcdonagh


Last edited by KovalevDeke: 04-21-2009 at 09:32 PM.
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Old
04-21-2009, 09:09 PM
  #110
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I would sign in the off-season either Martin Biron or Manny Fernandez and trade Halak for a defenseman.

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04-21-2009, 09:14 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by fiascov View Post
I would sign in the off-season either Martin Biron or Manny Fernandez and trade Halak for a defenseman.
Our UFA's:

 INOUTCAPTerm
TanguayX $5.5M4 yrs
Kovalev X  
KoivuX $4M2 yrs
LangX $3.5M1 yr
KostopoulosX $1M2 yrs
Bouillon X  
Dandenault X  
KomisarekX $3M3 yrs
SchneiderX $3M1 yr
Brisebois X  

Now this is in a perfect world. For some of them (Komo and Lang), I'd go a bit higher if need be but for most, it would be the maximum I'd offer them and I'd be willing to let them walk instead of overpaying them.

I'd do everything in my power, at just about any price, to get my hands on Vincent Lecavalier, the big center we so desperately need. If we succeed, one of Lang or Koivu wouldn't be re-signed.

I'd then unload Roman Hamrlik's salary to a team of his choice (NTC), to make room under the cap.

On other UFA's, I'd test the water for Jay Bouwmeester and I'd even sacrifice Komisarek for him. Also look into the following options (not all of them of course):
François Beauchemin ($4.5M, 4 yrs)
M-A Bergeron ($1.5M, 1 yr) ~ if Schneider doesn't re-sign
Philippe Boucher ($2M, 1 yr) ~ replacing Brisebois
Mattias Ohlund ($3.5M, 2 yrs)
Manny Malhotra ($2.5M, 3 yrs) ~ Excellent face-off man
Marian Hossa ($7.5M, 4 yrs)
Chris Neil ($2.5M, 3 yrs)
Biron, Fernandez or Garon ($1.5-$2M, 1-2 yrs) ~ veteran help for Price

I'd fire Roland Melanson and replace him with Patrick Roy or someone who could work with Price's hybrid style and give him his confidence back.

I'd try very hard to bring Larry Robinson back into the fold as a defensemen coach.

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Old
04-21-2009, 09:26 PM
  #112
LesHabsRock
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
For me its not just grit though. It has a lot to do with size and strength especially which is why i said physical components. With their size and strength they have controlled Montreal down low and in front of both nets. They also have superior skills. Again its combination.

And Marco Sturm is a key injury but i get your point.

Once again though, its the balance that is killing Montreal. I have never said Boston is pummeling Montreal through grit but some are making it sound like Boston is just out skilling Montreal and that isn't accurate either.
They are infact outskilling Montreal. That's fairly obvious throughout this series. They have the depth on offense that we don't have right now because of our injuries. And we don't have the depth on D to counter their skill upfront. So, yes, by default we have a less skilled team. Game 2 Boston scored 3 PP goals because of skill and puck movement starting from their back end. Montreal can't come close to matching that as their PP is dismal without their most skilled defensemen out of the lineup. Game one was won on a PP goal and that was the difference. Skill and depth of skill is their advantage and we look lost without key players particularly on special teams.

Edit: Also let's flip the situation for each of these teams. Imagine Montreal with Lang, Markov, Tanguay, and Schneider. And, now imagine, in addition to that, Boston without Chara, Wideman, Bergeron, and Kessel. What a difference that would be and on paper you'd really think Montreal could do well against the B's or better.


Last edited by LesHabsRock: 04-21-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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Old
04-21-2009, 09:37 PM
  #113
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I sincerely think if we are to bring in a veteran to help out Price, it should be Olaf Kolzig. They have a long-standing relationship going back to Tri-Cities and he could be a good mentor for him.

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Old
04-21-2009, 10:00 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Our UFA's:

 INOUTCAPTerm
TanguayX $5.5M4 yrs
Kovalev X  
KoivuX $4M2 yrs
LangX $3.5M1 yr
KostopoulosX $1M2 yrs
Bouillon X  
Dandenault X  
KomisarekX $3M3 yrs
SchneiderX $3M1 yr
Brisebois X  

Now this is in a perfect world. For some of them (Komo and Lang), I'd go a bit higher if need be but for most, it would be the maximum I'd offer them and I'd be willing to let them walk instead of overpaying them.

I'd do everything in my power, at just about any price, to get my hands on Vincent Lecavalier, the big center we so desperately need. If we succeed, one of Lang or Koivu wouldn't be re-signed.

I'd then unload Roman Hamrlik's salary to a team of his choice (NTC), to make room under the cap.

On other UFA's, I'd test the water for Jay Bouwmeester and I'd even sacrifice Komisarek for him. Also look into the following options (not all of them of course):
François Beauchemin ($4.5M, 4 yrs)
M-A Bergeron ($1.5M, 1 yr) ~ if Schneider doesn't re-sign
Philippe Boucher ($2M, 1 yr) ~ replacing Brisebois
Mattias Ohlund ($3.5M, 2 yrs)
Manny Malhotra ($2.5M, 3 yrs) ~ Excellent face-off man
Marian Hossa ($7.5M, 4 yrs)
Chris Neil ($2.5M, 3 yrs)
Biron, Fernandez or Garon ($1.5-$2M, 1-2 yrs) ~ veteran help for Price

I'd fire Roland Melanson and replace him with Patrick Roy or someone who could work with Price's hybrid style and give him his confidence back.

I'd try very hard to bring Larry Robinson back into the fold as a defensemen coach.
Generally agree with your choices on our FA's, though I'd rather give Kovalev the money allotted to Koivu or Lang. I know you'll respectfully disagree with that. Or keep them all. Koivu, Tanguay, Kovalev and Lang were a combined $18.5M this season, I'd like to think you could have them all back for $15-16M if you got deals done far enough ahead of July 1.

You'll likely not get Komi with $3M, it'll probably be more like $6M per that someone will pay him and for that I'm comfortable letting him go and signing some other stay at home type with 3-4M.

I like Halak, and I think he deserves better, but acquiring a vet to shadow/mentor Price seems like a decent long term strategy if you figure Price is the guy who'll be winning playoff rounds for us 5-10 years from now. It's a heavy cap hit but what about JS Giguere? He still has 2 years, $6 per on his deal, Ana is running Hiller out there in the POs so may find JSG expendable. At that contract he shouldn't cost much in trade. Then you've got a vet with a Cup win under his belt, a francophone to boot, and a guy who you could legitimately put out there to win games and who could be a proper #1 (or 1A/1B job-share) if you wanted. Down season for him this year but very solid for many years prior, so he might be a decent buy-low guy. Then when he leaves, Price is still all of 24 and ready to be the true #1 guy.

Patrick Roy in any capacity would be a gong show but maybe that's what this team needs. The syncophantic press could waste lots of time engaging in St. Patrick's antics and leave the actual players alone.

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04-21-2009, 10:25 PM
  #115
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Habs are big there is no doubt, they also hit but they are not vicious and have no temper. Confront a Hab and he quietly backs away or lets you punch him in the face until your tired. Bruins have alot of small forwards but they are cowardly and take alot of cheap shots at you. When a team like the habs gets picked on they dont get mad they get intimidated and emasculated. They lose focus and you might aswell pack it in.

It's sad to say but Prices fortitude is indicitive of the entire team, get in their face, crash their goalie and expect no backlash. Habs dont crash goalies and they have no one that will cheapshot your star.

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04-21-2009, 10:48 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
We had a big right handed centre in Lang who was our leading goal scorer before he was injured. Our depth chart looked great with him in the lineup and A. Kost was at his best along his side. The makeup of this team went south because Lang went out with injury. Our record without Lang is dismal. Add Markov, Schneider and Tanguay to that list as well as Latendresse (who was doing very well then was injured for a big stint) and you have a recipe for failure. Every player Gainey went out and grabbed off the market has been out for long stretches of the season and now they're all out at the same time for the Playoffs. Horrible luck.

Right now, the Bruins are beating us with, believe it or not, skill and depth which is something the Canadiens did have and are supposed to have, but not when everyone's out with injury.

Right now, the Habs have four defensemen out of the lineup, their number 2 centre, and a top line winger. No team, no matter the depth, can recover from that.
Perhaps we should also note the long stint where we lost Koivu, Komisarek and also Higgins at the beguinning of the year, yet we manage to make the playoff for the fourth time in the past 5 years. But I suppose this is irrelevant

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04-21-2009, 10:50 PM
  #117
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I think we should make every effort to build from our strengths,

We should have a #1 goalie for the future in our system now and make our decision in the 2010-2011 season which way to go there. Halak will be 26 at the end of the season and Carey 24 we should have a good Idea then.

On D we have loads of prospects that we should be able to get a couple solid NHLers, Markov, Komi, Gorges are all pieces that work now and Weber looks good for at worst for a 6th Dman. My move would be to throw 6.5-7.25 at Boumeester and deal Hammer for a prospect or pick in the offseason or at the deadline. That would be 5 of 7 D spots for 5-6 years with plenty in the pool to fill in or deal from.

Obvious problem is the forward position players that work for the future with perferred line in brackets seem to be:

Higgins (3rd)
Lappy (3rd)
Latendresse (3rd)
Stewart (4th)
Chippy (4th)
Conboy/Kosto/Laraque/Other Fighter (4th)
Koivu (2nd) - 2-3 more years in him and ould fill a temporary role in 10-11 for my squad
D'ago (2-3)
Patches (2nd) - Potential for top line

Potential

Maxwell (2nd) - I have high hopes for Maxwell but this seems to be about the right spot for him


I would love to see the Kost's develop but for now I'm counting them out of my re-bulit team but believe both could be a part of it just need to find the consitency and both have next year to do it as both are under contract and in a rebuilding year wouldn't trade my youth but would in the 09-10 offseason to fill some of my holes on my contending team 10-11 team.

2010-11 Roster

Tanguay-xxx-xxx (Tangs 5.0)
D'ago-Maxwell-Patches (5.0)
Tender-Koivu-Higgy (8)
Stewart-Lappy-Laraque/Conboy (4.0)
Chippy

Markov-Komi (9.0)
Boumeester-Gorges (9.0)
Weber-Fischer/McDonagh (2.0)
Subban (8th Dman)

Price / Halak (3.5) 2.75 for starter other gone with a 750k backup

Assets
A.Kost
S.Kost
Halak / Price
Pleky
Hammer
Carle + any other prospects that gain value over the next 2 years
Draft Picks


45.5M replacing Koivu with Lappy and having a cheap 4th line centre would probably save 2.5M aswell or signing a player like Kovy and using Koivu as the top line centre fills a need for a constant threat top line, lotsa options though. 7-10m to fill to roster spots assuming a 52-55M cap should be enough for a top 6 winger and centre (not an unamed TBay player).

Lots of good pieces in place just need a few final parts of the puzzle.

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Old
04-21-2009, 11:29 PM
  #118
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
They are infact outskilling Montreal. That's fairly obvious throughout this series. They have the depth on offense that we don't have right now because of our injuries. And we don't have the depth on D to counter their skill upfront. So, yes, by default we have a less skilled team. Game 2 Boston scored 3 PP goals because of skill and puck movement starting from their back end. Montreal can't come close to matching that as their PP is dismal without their most skilled defensemen out of the lineup. Game one was won on a PP goal and that was the difference. Skill and depth of skill is their advantage and we look lost without key players particularly on special teams.

Edit: Also let's flip the situation for each of these teams. Imagine Montreal with Lang, Markov, Tanguay, and Schneider. And, now imagine, in addition to that, Boston without Chara, Wideman, Bergeron, and Kessel. What a difference that would be and on paper you'd really think Montreal could do well against the B's or better.
the aren't JUST out skilling Montreal, they are dominating them in every aspect of the game. Puck control, in front nets, along the boards etc etc, thats just not skill that is physicality, grit, strength, and determination.

How many different ways does it take. Its not coming solely to Bostons skill. Hell even there speeds better than Montreal but according to you its just skill which is absolute *********.

just because Boston has more skill because Montreal injuries doesn't make Boston winning the series by simply out skilling Montreal by default.

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04-21-2009, 11:39 PM
  #119
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Find a center and an offensive D-man and you're set. Trade route seems to be the best option.

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04-21-2009, 11:40 PM
  #120
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Habs are big there is no doubt, they also hit but they are not vicious and have no temper. Confront a Hab and he quietly backs away or lets you punch him in the face until your tired. Bruins have alot of small forwards but they are cowardly and take alot of cheap shots at you. When a team like the habs gets picked on they dont get mad they get intimidated and emasculated. They lose focus and you might aswell pack it in.

It's sad to say but Prices fortitude is indicitive of the entire team, get in their face, crash their goalie and expect no backlash. Habs dont crash goalies and they have no one that will cheapshot your star.
according to most its JUST skill thats killing Montreal. The fact Montreal has been average from about the 10 game mark on seems forgotten. But nope blame injuries and not the fact this is a weak, feeble team not willing to pay the price.

oh well, by default changes essentially will have as half the roster is UFA thank god.

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04-21-2009, 11:47 PM
  #121
OneSharpMarble
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according to most its JUST skill thats killing Montreal. The fact Montreal has been average from about the 10 game mark on seems forgotten. But nope blame injuries and not the fact this is a weak, feeble team not willing to pay the price.

oh well, by default changes essentially will have as half the roster is UFA thank god.
I dont agreed with anyone that says this team isnt skilled, they are loaded with skill. What they do lack is heart, pride and will power. This team is easily shaken and take a long time to find their game again.

Whether they just dont care or are plain cowards they dont have the drive to win.

Yeah we will have lots of open spots as long as alot of the ufa's arent returning, that gives us a chance to turn things around quickly and without having to shuffle salaries.

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04-21-2009, 11:50 PM
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according to most its JUST skill thats killing Montreal. The fact Montreal has been average from about the 10 game mark on seems forgotten. But nope blame injuries and not the fact this is a weak, feeble team not willing to pay the price.

oh well, by default changes essentially will have as half the roster is UFA thank god.
This team appeared to be turning the tide before Markov and Schneider got hurt. We were soundly beating teams we were supposed to which was indicative of improvement. Prior to that, they'd be our Achilles heel. Our PP was producing, a first line emerged. Everyone found a niche. The only thing missing was the 2nd line which could have been tweaked here and there. Then Markov and Schneider gets dropped and kills any momentum we had left.

The Ruins are a on a different level this year. But finishing strong instead of dropping our last 4 may have put us in a position to face a different team. Get in a series where we could have gained some confidence and get into a serious flow. I was really excited to see how we would have fared in our last three games with everything clicking. They were playoff teams and we could have better gauged if the team had really set the course right. Sadly the injuries prevented that.

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04-22-2009, 12:13 AM
  #123
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the aren't JUST out skilling Montreal, they are dominating them in every aspect of the game. Puck control, in front nets, along the boards etc etc, thats just not skill that is physicality, grit, strength, and determination.

How many different ways does it take. Its not coming solely to Bostons skill. Hell even there speeds better than Montreal but according to you its just skill which is absolute *********.

just because Boston has more skill because Montreal injuries doesn't make Boston winning the series by simply out skilling Montreal by default.
You're still having trouble understanding what skill is. Skill is not simply puck handling and dipsy doodling like you seem to think it is. Do you really think the Bruins have more determination than the Habs? The Habs have matched and bettered their determination and grit, but lacked the playmaking or finishing around the net. Skill also includes the ability to skate and well. Passing is also a skill. So, absolutely the Bruins with their full line-up is more skilled than a very skeletal Montreal squad. The Bruins are beating them at special teams and even strength. The Bruins execution and breakout passes are superior to Montreal's. THAT'S SKILL. You need skill to make and accept those passes and execute plays. A lot of the Bruins goals weren't scored because they grinded it out. They scored most of their goals either on the rush or on powerplays. It's that simple. I just don't know for the life of me why you can't see that.

If you watch, especially when Savard's line is out there they always try that tic tac toe play and one time passes that reminded me of the Kovalev-Kost-Plek line last year. It's truly amazing. Heck, Ryder is making quite the laser passes that lead to scoring chances and goals.

Like it or not the Bruins are a very good puck moving team with the ability to play the grinding game, but this is far from the lunch bucket big bad Bruins team that you and a lot of others claim them to be.

And don't even get me started on the goaltending because shots on goal have been fairly even all series. Thomas clearly get's the nod over Price.


Last edited by LesHabsRock: 04-22-2009 at 12:33 AM.
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04-22-2009, 12:47 AM
  #124
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Largely because I don't believe that playoff stats, and their small sample size mean a whole lot, especially for a guy who has met with great success before in a Cup run, as a rookie no less. Tanguay has barely more than a season's worth of playoff games, and that is a lot of playoff experience.

Interestingly, James Mirtle just put up a lovely article on this with a helpful chart on this very subject.

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/4/21...nderperformers

See Datsyuk for an example of how bad playoff stats can turn around in a hurry -- his playoff to regular season is even worse than Tanguay's. The main difference between the perception of Datsyuk's stats and Tanguay's is that Tanguay got his killer year early, rather than recently. A couple of other interesting guys on that chart, like Getzlaf and Selanne.

Unless you want to argue laim that Datsyuk and Getzlaf are a bad playoff performers, which is an argument I'd find interesting to see.



Considering that the vast majority of that production is a- at even strength and b- done while preventing goals against pretty much as well as anyone on the team, I'm going to have to say "yes, and in spades". For a team that has struggled at even-strength, an elite even-strength performer like Tanguay is pure gold.

Tanguay never got first-unit power play minutes until Gainey was coach, and then he was productive (of course, having a productive PP overall helped -- but Tanguay was a major contributor.)

Superficial looks at counting stats are a terrible way to judge players.



You're the one who called him "relatively unproductive". He's been the most productive player on the team this year. Comparing him to last year's Tomas Plekanec is more than a little disingenious due to team effects. Players on teams that do well will themselves do well (compare the Bruins of last year to the Bruins of this year for a similar example).



I think that Tanguay, who was far and away the Habs' best two-way forward, fully deserved to be the team's highest-paid forward.

I've described him as "Markov at forward" and the comparison is apt, even though the overall impact isn't the same: Tanguay's a two-way force, not very flashy, but nonetheless highly productive and highly effective. When Tanguay is on the ice, the Habs score a lot more and get scored on a lot less. This is not coincidence.
The 91 playoff games Tanguay has played are not a small sample size, as you put it, but the most important games of his--or any player's--NHL career, and he has been only so-so in the postseason. Moreover, his C+ playoff record doesn't fully explain why he falls short of superstardom. A great forward should have at least one 30-goal season--uh uh. He should be able to rack up 80+ points--one season doesn't cut it. He's no Teemu Selanne or Mark Recchi or Brendan Shanahan or Martin St. Louis or Pavol Demitra, for example.

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04-22-2009, 01:25 AM
  #125
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But the Bruins are not the biggest or toughest team around either. Imagine if you were playing a pack of wolverines like the Hawks or Canucks. Big, fast, young, tough. The Bruins have a couple of physical players, but they also need to evaluate their overall toughness for next year.

you know that if we're to face em in the playoffs it means we're in thr SCF right ?...

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