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A Rebuild Plan

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Old
04-22-2009, 03:13 AM
  #126
sXe
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so far the plan consists of unrealistic trades, the ability to attract every UFA we choose for reasonable amounts and them ignoring all other offers, low-balling our few players we want to keep and in no way involves actually losing to get high draft picks.

I like it!

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Old
04-22-2009, 05:31 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
according to most its JUST skill thats killing Montreal. The fact Montreal has been average from about the 10 game mark on seems forgotten. But nope blame injuries and not the fact this is a weak, feeble team not willing to pay the price.

oh well, by default changes essentially will have as half the roster is UFA thank god.
What season have you been watching? From the 10 game mark? Try just before the all star game is when things went downhill. Some players are willing to pay the price but not enough and not at the same time it seems. We have been outhitting the Bruins but have not kept it going consistently each game and often take a stupid, or unlucky, penalty which ruins or momentum. Yes we are loosing but I don't think we are overall getting our ***** kicked as bad as some people like you seem to make it out.

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Old
04-22-2009, 07:08 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Someone needs to say it and get the discussion moving so being one the most hated I figured i'd take the lead.

Thats right you guessed it, REBUILD. I am not talking a full blown raze the earth welcome to Toronto rebuild here. I am talking methodical removal of certain players and keeping ones that either deserve to stay or still give us hope.
I am prepared to drop

Lang
Bouillon
Brisebois
Kostopoulos
Schneider

and the cap hits from Cullimore and Salmalainen automatically go away.

First things first, I sit down with loyal Kaptain Koivu and award him his probable last contract, signed before he is 35 years of age . It is for FIVE years, with declining salaries of 3.5M, 3.0M, 2.0M, 1.5M, 1.0M. The Cap Hit is $2.2M per year. If he retires before the contract is over, the cap hit ceases, and the club "gained" the cap savings from front-loading.

Then, I go to Assistant Captain Alexei Kovalev, and tell him that he has a place in Montreal for as long as he wants until he retires, after which we will give him a job of some kind if he wants it. We will mutually agree to salary 1 year at a time. For 2009-2010, I would sign him again for $4.0M.

Next up - Alex Tanguay. I tell him that despite average production, we are happy with his attitude and want to have him back but at a lower cap hit than this year: $3.75M per year for 4 or 5 years. Thus, we lock up a local talent for a while into his early thirties.

I negotiate with Mike Komisarek and sign him to a four year contract worth $13M. I think he takes this option, given the possibility of a declining cap, over my other tendered offer of 2 years for $8.5M.

I go to Chris Higgins and Tomas Plekanec and tell them that while they had disappointing seasons, we want them back and don't want to lock them into a long-term contract at a time when they have little bargaining power. I offer them one year deals at the qualifying offer level (this year salary plus 5%) and they get a chance at a big payday as UFAs next year......if they earn it! They come back with a request for more security, and I sign them to three-year deals for $6.6M each - cap hits $2.2M each.

Guillaume Latendresse and Matt d'Agostini get their "second contracts". Latendresse gets what Josh Gorges got last year, and d'Agostini gets what Max Lapierre got last year.

I ask Mathieu Dandenault if he would consider finishing out his days with the club at a $1.0M salary. I offer him three years to show some commitment.

Since he will be waiver-eligible next year, I re-sign RFA Gregory Stewart to a one-way deal at $500K, and he accepts this over the two-way arrangement that comes with a qualifying offer. I would take my chances with Chipchura or trade him for a new draft pick a la Grabovski.

On defence, Ryan O'Byrne returns as our 7th defeneceman. That is a good thing, since he is now waiver-eligible and I don't want to lose him.

For a sixth defenceman, I pass on Patrice Brisebois this time. We go with Yannick Weber.


Then, I make three major trades. First, I ship Carey Price and the Kostitsyn brothers to Colorado for Paul Stastny and John Michael Liles. Then, I swap big contracts with Chicago, Hamrlik for Huet. Finally, I move Plekanec and Laraque for Simon Gagné.

Assuming the cap stays the same at $56.7M for next year, this leaves us with $3.733M Cap Space available.

What to do with so much money?? And aren't we missing a defenceman? AHA!!

I sign 29 year old Francois Beauchemin to a four-year deal worth $3.5M per year.


Lineup:

Tanguay - Stastny - D'Agostini
Gagne - Koivu - Kovalev
Higgins - Metropolit - Dandenault
Latendresse - Lapierre - Pacioretty
....Glumac, Stewart

Markov - Komisarek
Beauchemin - Liles
Gorges - Weber
....O'Byrne

Halak
Huet

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Old
04-22-2009, 12:44 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post

Then, I make three major trades. First, I ship Carey Price and the Kostitsyn brothers to Colorado for Paul Stastny and John Michael Liles. Then, I swap big contracts with Chicago, Hamrlik for Huet. Finally, I move Plekanec and Laraque for Simon Gagné.
I have a question. Why do you think Philly would trade Simon Gagne for Plekanec and Laraque? Plekanec is the exact player that Philly would never want, they already have Richards and Carter at center. And no one wants to trade for Laraque (not bashing him, I am actually a Laraque supporter, but I am sure no one wants him at $1.5 million/year).


Last edited by mastodon: 04-22-2009 at 12:55 PM.
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Old
04-22-2009, 12:59 PM
  #130
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1. Hire an experienced coach

2. Re-sign our key UFAs and RFAs

3. Get some tougher bottom 6 guys

That's the reality of the situation we're in.

We have players with some skill...just need somebody who can motivate them and come up with a system to work to our advantage

I'm not sure if there is a coach out there that fits though...especially when you consider the french-speaking part.

I guess Lemaire...I would love to see it, but he won't come.

What are the other options?

Therrien or Hartley I guess?

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:03 PM
  #131
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I think in the case of Higgins, Komisarek and Plekanec we are in a good position to take a gamble on them.

Sign them to long-term contracts at a lower salary. They might be inclined to accept based on the lower cap in the future and their poor play this year.

Something like:

Higgins - 5yrs / 15M
Plekanec - 4yrs / 12M
Komisarek - 5yrs/17M

Those could end up being sweet deals for the future and if they don't turn out how we planned their salaries are not untradeable.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:06 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post

3. Get some tougher bottom 6 guys
Intersting UFA fitting your description:
Neil
Moen
Rupp

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:08 PM
  #133
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What we also have to do as part of a rebuild is identify who is in our top 6, who is our offensive leader (get one), who is in our bottom 6. We have no structure and no roles on our team. We just have 12 forwards mis-mashed into different combinations every game.

Trade the excess players we don't need. Enough quantity, we need quality, been saying it all year.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:11 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I am prepared to drop

Lang
Bouillon
Brisebois
Kostopoulos
Schneider

and the cap hits from Cullimore and Salmalainen automatically go away.

First things first, I sit down with loyal Kaptain Koivu and award him his probable last contract, signed before he is 35 years of age . It is for FIVE years, with declining salaries of 3.5M, 3.0M, 2.0M, 1.5M, 1.0M. The Cap Hit is $2.2M per year. If he retires before the contract is over, the cap hit ceases, and the club "gained" the cap savings from front-loading.

Then, I go to Assistant Captain Alexei Kovalev, and tell him that he has a place in Montreal for as long as he wants until he retires, after which we will give him a job of some kind if he wants it. We will mutually agree to salary 1 year at a time. For 2009-2010, I would sign him again for $4.0M.

Next up - Alex Tanguay. I tell him that despite average production, we are happy with his attitude and want to have him back but at a lower cap hit than this year: $3.75M per year for 4 or 5 years. Thus, we lock up a local talent for a while into his early thirties.

I negotiate with Mike Komisarek and sign him to a four year contract worth $13M. I think he takes this option, given the possibility of a declining cap, over my other tendered offer of 2 years for $8.5M.

I go to Chris Higgins and Tomas Plekanec and tell them that while they had disappointing seasons, we want them back and don't want to lock them into a long-term contract at a time when they have little bargaining power. I offer them one year deals at the qualifying offer level (this year salary plus 5%) and they get a chance at a big payday as UFAs next year......if they earn it! They come back with a request for more security, and I sign them to three-year deals for $6.6M each - cap hits $2.2M each.

Guillaume Latendresse and Matt d'Agostini get their "second contracts". Latendresse gets what Josh Gorges got last year, and d'Agostini gets what Max Lapierre got last year.

I ask Mathieu Dandenault if he would consider finishing out his days with the club at a $1.0M salary. I offer him three years to show some commitment.

Since he will be waiver-eligible next year, I re-sign RFA Gregory Stewart to a one-way deal at $500K, and he accepts this over the two-way arrangement that comes with a qualifying offer. I would take my chances with Chipchura or trade him for a new draft pick a la Grabovski.

On defence, Ryan O'Byrne returns as our 7th defeneceman. That is a good thing, since he is now waiver-eligible and I don't want to lose him.

For a sixth defenceman, I pass on Patrice Brisebois this time. We go with Yannick Weber.


Then, I make three major trades. First, I ship Carey Price and the Kostitsyn brothers to Colorado for Paul Stastny and John Michael Liles. Then, I swap big contracts with Chicago, Hamrlik for Huet. Finally, I move Plekanec and Laraque for Simon Gagné.Assuming the cap stays the same at $56.7M for next year, this leaves us with $3.733M Cap Space available.

What to do with so much money?? And aren't we missing a defenceman? AHA!!

I sign 29 year old Francois Beauchemin to a four-year deal worth $3.5M per year.


Lineup:

Tanguay - Stastny - D'Agostini
Gagne - Koivu - Kovalev
Higgins - Metropolit - Dandenault
Latendresse - Lapierre - Pacioretty
....Glumac, Stewart

Markov - Komisarek
Beauchemin - Liles
Gorges - Weber
....O'Byrne

Halak
Huet
2725 posts and you come with these three trades that would get you laughed out NHL 2009.

Kostopoulos will be re-signed as I believe will be Kovalev and Koivu.Tanguay will bolt for more money, maybe even back to Colorado or Phoenix. Someone will offer 5 million+ to play.

I still belive Komi will sign here and your contract offer sounds about right.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:16 PM
  #135
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Tanguay-????-Kovalev
Higgins-Koivu-A.Kostitsyn
Latendresse-Lapierre-D'agostini
Stewart-Metro-Laracque

S.Kostitsyn
M.Pacioretty
K.Chipchura

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-???
Gorges-???

Weber
O'Byrne

Price
Halak

Looking at this team, as much as I expect Pleks to bounce back, this team is too small at centre. And I think this team will still expect to win next season, so I choose to keep the captain.

Free agents gone: Schneider, Bouillion, Kosto (I like but time for the youth to take his spot), Brisebois, Dandenault (I would consider re-signing for cheap but better to have young legs and salary take over)

Free agents resigned: All at the right price and contract length - Koivu and Kovalev for 2 years, Tanguay and Komisarek for 3 years. If Komi's contract demands get too large then they have to let him go and use the funds elsewhere.

Trade Bait: Pleks and any prospect. I think it might be time for a Danny Ainge style trade and play some of the chips this team has.

I'll do a more detailed analysis when the season ends (tonight?), with $$ but I think that if those 3 spots above are addressed properly, this team will be much approved.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:19 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverboat Gambler View Post
Intersting UFA fitting your description:
Neil
Moen
Rupp
I'd take any of them...!

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:25 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I am prepared to drop

Lang
Bouillon
Brisebois
Kostopoulos
Schneider

and the cap hits from Cullimore and Salmalainen automatically go away.

First things first, I sit down with loyal Kaptain Koivu and award him his probable last contract, signed before he is 35 years of age . It is for FIVE years, with declining salaries of 3.5M, 3.0M, 2.0M, 1.5M, 1.0M. The Cap Hit is $2.2M per year. If he retires before the contract is over, the cap hit ceases, and the club "gained" the cap savings from front-loading.

Then, I go to Assistant Captain Alexei Kovalev, and tell him that he has a place in Montreal for as long as he wants until he retires, after which we will give him a job of some kind if he wants it. We will mutually agree to salary 1 year at a time. For 2009-2010, I would sign him again for $4.0M.

Next up - Alex Tanguay. I tell him that despite average production, we are happy with his attitude and want to have him back but at a lower cap hit than this year: $3.75M per year for 4 or 5 years. Thus, we lock up a local talent for a while into his early thirties.

I negotiate with Mike Komisarek and sign him to a four year contract worth $13M. I think he takes this option, given the possibility of a declining cap, over my other tendered offer of 2 years for $8.5M.

I go to Chris Higgins and Tomas Plekanec and tell them that while they had disappointing seasons, we want them back and don't want to lock them into a long-term contract at a time when they have little bargaining power. I offer them one year deals at the qualifying offer level (this year salary plus 5%) and they get a chance at a big payday as UFAs next year......if they earn it! They come back with a request for more security, and I sign them to three-year deals for $6.6M each - cap hits $2.2M each.

Guillaume Latendresse and Matt d'Agostini get their "second contracts". Latendresse gets what Josh Gorges got last year, and d'Agostini gets what Max Lapierre got last year.

I ask Mathieu Dandenault if he would consider finishing out his days with the club at a $1.0M salary. I offer him three years to show some commitment.

Since he will be waiver-eligible next year, I re-sign RFA Gregory Stewart to a one-way deal at $500K, and he accepts this over the two-way arrangement that comes with a qualifying offer. I would take my chances with Chipchura or trade him for a new draft pick a la Grabovski.

On defence, Ryan O'Byrne returns as our 7th defeneceman. That is a good thing, since he is now waiver-eligible and I don't want to lose him.

For a sixth defenceman, I pass on Patrice Brisebois this time. We go with Yannick Weber.


Then, I make three major trades. First, I ship Carey Price and the Kostitsyn brothers to Colorado for Paul Stastny and John Michael Liles. Then, I swap big contracts with Chicago, Hamrlik for Huet. Finally, I move Plekanec and Laraque for Simon Gagné.

Assuming the cap stays the same at $56.7M for next year, this leaves us with $3.733M Cap Space available.

What to do with so much money?? And aren't we missing a defenceman? AHA!!

I sign 29 year old Francois Beauchemin to a four-year deal worth $3.5M per year.


Lineup:

Tanguay - Stastny - D'Agostini
Gagne - Koivu - Kovalev
Higgins - Metropolit - Dandenault
Latendresse - Lapierre - Pacioretty
....Glumac, Stewart

Markov - Komisarek
Beauchemin - Liles
Gorges - Weber
....O'Byrne

Halak
Huet
So you would trade an overpaid Hamrlik who has 2 years left on his contract for an EVEN MORE overpaid Huet who has 3 years left on his contract...ya, makes sense.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:37 PM
  #138
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I'd take any of them...!
Me too, maybe even all of them if you catch me on the right day

But I think the first two could be upgrades on TomK (as much as I appreciate the guy... he's an easy upgrade)

I think I also like Rupp for his massive size... but admittedly I haven't seen too much of him. He can be disciplined, as he's only taken over 100 minutes once- this past season. He don't think he could be expected to replace TomK's production, but if he came cheap he could help this time of year.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:42 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Riverboat Gambler View Post
Me too, maybe even all of them if you catch me on the right day

But I think the first two could be upgrades on TomK (as much as I appreciate the guy... he's an easy upgrade)

I think I also like Rupp for his massive size... but admittedly I haven't seen too much of him. He can be disciplined, as he's only taken over 100 minutes once- this past season. He don't think he could be expected to replace TomK's production, but if he came cheap he could help this time of year.
I still think a coach is our number 1 priority...obviously.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:47 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by DougHarvey View Post
2725 posts and you come with these three trades that would get you laughed out NHL 2009.

Kostopoulos will be re-signed as I believe will be Kovalev and Koivu.Tanguay will bolt for more money, maybe even back to Colorado or Phoenix. Someone will offer 5 million+ to play.

I still belive Komi will sign here and your contract offer sounds about right.
I'm pretty sure he was joking.

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Old
04-22-2009, 01:50 PM
  #141
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face the facts we are middle of the pack

lets cut the crap , the habs arent as good as most think they are.

we are a decent team , but we arent built for the playoffs plain and simple .

We lack a true front line center ( Koivu never was one ) . We lack the grit and the roster to truly win at all costs in the playoffs.

We simply cant rely on Kovy, Tangs, Koivu, Higgs, Pleks, and Kosty to be your top 6 forwards and do it everynight - KEEP DREAMING .

but we have a good crop of kids coming up, a solid cap , and the pieces to maneuvere in the draft or trades .

We aren`t the Rangers with 30 plus mil on a declining cap on some truly disgusting salaries.

Dont blame Bob at all, he did what he could given most players aren`t willing to come here in this mental media city , and put up with the crap this city offers hockey players.

Gainey didn`t bandaid moves, never made fooilsh deals, ( WHERE ARE THE JOKINEN LOVERS NOW , as if he was to put us over the top , gievn what it would take to get him . Tangs was a low first pick it was decent gamble.

We need a Holland/Burke type GM now , a go getter , a better visionary who has the stones
to pull off a deal or 2 , when no one expects it . Bob is good to get you to one point , we need the guy to take us to the next step.

we arent that bad folks, GM`S

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Old
04-22-2009, 02:02 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Netro View Post
Tanguay-????-Kovalev
Higgins-Koivu-A.Kostitsyn
Latendresse-Lapierre-D'agostini
Stewart-Metro-Laracque

S.Kostitsyn
M.Pacioretty
K.Chipchura

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-???
Gorges-???

Weber
O'Byrne

Price
Halak

Looking at this team, as much as I expect Pleks to bounce back, this team is too small at centre. And I think this team will still expect to win next season, so I choose to keep the captain.

Free agents gone: Schneider, Bouillion, Kosto (I like but time for the youth to take his spot), Brisebois, Dandenault (I would consider re-signing for cheap but better to have young legs and salary take over)

Free agents resigned: All at the right price and contract length - Koivu and Kovalev for 2 years, Tanguay and Komisarek for 3 years. If Komi's contract demands get too large then they have to let him go and use the funds elsewhere.

Trade Bait: Pleks and any prospect. I think it might be time for a Danny Ainge style trade and play some of the chips this team has.

I'll do a more detailed analysis when the season ends (tonight?), with $$ but I think that if those 3 spots above are addressed properly, this team will be much approved.
K - I lied - I did a little analysis. Based on habsworld.net numbers for 2009-2010 plus:
Re-signing Koivu to a 1 or 2 year deal at $3.5/yr
Re-signing Kovalev to a 1 or 2 year deal at $4.5/yr
Re-signing Komi to a 3 yr sliding scale contract ($4.0, $4.5, $5.0 mil for $4.5/yr)
Re-signing Tanguay to a 3 yr deal at $5.5/yr
Re-signing RFA Higgins @ $2.5/yr
Re-signing RFA D'Ago at $750K/yr

You may disagree with the above or think that my figures are too low/high for some and I would understand. In this economy, the way these players played, it is difficult to judge their value. For instance, will Koivu take a million less per year? Will Kovalev take the same salary and be ok if Tanguay is higher?

Regardless, the line-up above then has:
Matt D'Agostini $750,000
Josh Gorges $110,000
Jaroslav Halak $775,000
Roman Hamrlik $5,500,000
Chris Higgins $2,500,000
Andrei Kostitsyn $3,250,000
Sergei Kostitsyn $816,667
Saku Koivu $3,500,000
Mike Komisarek $4,500,000
Alexei Kovalev $4,500,000
Maxim Lapierre $687,500
Georges Laraque $1,500,000
Guillaume Latendresse $1,250,000
Andrei Markov $5,750,000
Glen Metropolit $1,000,000
Max Pacioretty $875,000
Carey Price $2,200,000
Alex Tanguay $5,500,000
Yannick Weber $875,000
Ryan O'Byrne $941,667
Greg Stewart $491,667
Totral $47,272,501

What will be the cap next year? I took Chipchura and Pleks out, I assume they will be traded.

I think this will also mean Weber/OByrne for spot #6 and a trade deadline deal for a vet if necessary. So, once I know the cap, it would let me know how much funds are left for a centre and d-man (by free agency or trade)

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04-22-2009, 02:10 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
I think in the case of Higgins, Komisarek and Plekanec we are in a good position to take a gamble on them.

Sign them to long-term contracts at a lower salary. They might be inclined to accept based on the lower cap in the future and their poor play this year.

Something like:

Higgins - 5yrs / 15M
Plekanec - 4yrs / 12M
Komisarek - 5yrs/17M

Those could end up being sweet deals for the future and if they don't turn out how we planned their salaries are not untradeable.
The way the some UFA's and RFA's performed on contract years one would assume handing out long contract should have the opposite effect right?

I would definitely to those players on those terms.

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Old
04-22-2009, 02:11 PM
  #144
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Thanks for letting me knw the sky if falling. I'm sure most teams that lose their top scoring forward for a couple months on top of their MVP defensemen on top of almost every young player on the struggling at the same time, would not even phase them.

We had 93 pts this year, with massive injuries and slumps to 90% of our young players. A couple more wins and we would have been 100 point team again but yea we suck, lets panic and blow it all up, maybe we'll get it right next time around.

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04-22-2009, 02:11 PM
  #145
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I still think a coach is our number 1 priority...obviously.
Agreed. I just quoted that part since I was perusing the UFA selection looking for who may be available recently when I noticed your post.

Coach needs to be a good hire.

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04-22-2009, 02:15 PM
  #146
Capitano
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Thanks for letting me knw the sky if falling. I'm sure most teams that lose their top scoring forward for a couple months on top of their MVP defensemen on top of almost every young player on the struggling at the same time, would not even phase them.

We had 93 pts this year, with massive injuries and slumps to 90% of our young players. A couple more wins and we would have been 100 point team again but yea we suck, lets panic and blow it all up, maybe we'll get it right next time around.
Some fans are overly passionate and are just frustrated at the lack of success. They are lumping 15 years together instead of looking at the last 2-5 years.

We have some young players that have some upside...this year was a disappointment from some of them, but like I keep saying, show me a good coach and he'll get the best out of these guys.

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Old
04-22-2009, 02:27 PM
  #147
TheGoalJudge
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Thanks for letting me knw the sky if falling. I'm sure most teams that lose their top scoring forward for a couple months on top of their MVP defensemen on top of almost every young player on the struggling at the same time, would not even phase them.

We had 93 pts this year, with massive injuries and slumps to 90% of our young players. A couple more wins and we would have been 100 point team again but yea we suck, lets panic and blow it all up, maybe we'll get it right next time around.
No we don't suck, but we're not going to win the cup with these players.

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Old
04-22-2009, 02:40 PM
  #148
m00ks
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
No we don't suck, but we're not going to win the cup with these players.
lol why cuz we didn't win it this year?

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Old
04-22-2009, 03:42 PM
  #149
TheGoalJudge
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
lol why cuz we didn't win it this year?
Yes, that's exactly why.

Our #1 C is Saku Koivu... and our best offensive player, Kovalev, is 36 years old.

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04-22-2009, 04:21 PM
  #150
RC51
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Lets look as this from the other side.
what exactly do we know we need???

Clearly the NHL has not changed. It wanted more goals and more speed and less fights and less toughness but yet again when it come to the playoffs all bets are off.

so, the habs need about 5-6 hard hitting players that can skate, not goons but big hard hitting guys.

The habs need 2 new centermen, big size centers. one has to be a star.

at defence habs need big d-men that can move the puck forward and one that can hit the net every time from the point.

now go look around and find these guys.

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